MA MA - Joan Risch, 30, Lincoln, 24 Oct 1961

[bunnygirl2001]

What I am most intrigued about is the relationship with the foster/adoptive father. Mr. Risch indicated that his wife mentioned having been sexually assaulted as a youth while in foster care. There appears to have been several visits with her adoptive parents in days prior to the day she disappeared. Also, it looks like on 2 occasions the police actually visited the adoptive father. I wonder if Joan, now grown, married and with her own children, started "talking" about the previous sexual abuse and her adoptive father was at the house, by himself, to try to shut her up. Perhaps things got out of hand. Possibly he hurt her in some way and she fled, only to have him find her o

Wow , that's a theory I never considered. Thank you for taking me down that road of speculation. This resonates with me in several ways:

1. Joan would leave Lillian back at BBs if she knew someone was coming over- especially if it were her alleged abusive foster care dad. It makes sense that she would not have want Lilian around when he was, or maybe she knew expected tone of the encounter would not have been appropriate for Lilian to be around.

2. Why Joan's infant son upstairs was unharmed or unbothered. If it were an attack that led to Joan's disappearance it would of been a personal one IMO and if it were her adoptive father who attacked her, it would make sense for him to not have had intentions of harming her son.

still holes in this theory for me- as every theory around this case has. But I think this is a very interesting speculation you have brought up!


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[jgfitzge]

What I am most intrigued about is the relationship with the foster/adoptive father. Mr. Risch indicated that his wife mentioned having been sexually abused somehow as a youth while in foster care. There appears to have been several visits with her adoptive parents in days prior to her disappearance. I wonder if Joan, now grown, married and with her own children, started "talking" about the previous sexual abuse and her adoptive father paid her a couple visits to try to shut her up. Perhaps things got out of hand and she got hurt and fled the scene. Maybe he chased her down and got her into the car...never to be seen again. I wonder if the police had him on their suspect list since they interviewed him at least twice after she disappeared.

Ray, allow me to respond to your points. Yes, there was talk of past sexual abuse by the foster father towards Joan. However, that information came from her friends, passed on to the police. When they asked about this to Mr. Risch he denied it. I did not read about visits to her adoptive parents in the weeks leading up to her disappearance. Yes, the police did travel to New Jersey/New York to interview the father on at least two occasions. Yes, sleaze ball as the father may be, I don't believe he had anything to do with her disappearance. If he traveled to Massachusetts and stopped into her see her on the day of her disappearance, witnesses would have noticed the out of state plates. That is why the blue/gray sedan seen in the weeks before and the day off her disappearance holds the key. I believe the vehicle was local, Massachusetts registered. I tend to think people remember if a car had out of state plates, especially where one witness saw it backing out of the driveway.

 

[jgfitzge]

Bunnygirl2001 wrote:

4. The liquor bottle in the waste basket bothers me. I don't know if Joan was a drinker, or perhaps it was her husbands that never made it to the trash can, but it seems so obvious and out of place to me

Martin Risch accounted for the whisky bottle. He said he and Joan finished it off the night before (drinking on a Monday night However, he could not account for the empty Miller six-pack carton.

 

[jgfitzge]

Bunnygirl2001 wrote:

1. The day Joan disappeared was a busy one. While I do think the botched abortion theory holds water- I don't think it was done the day of her disappearance. That leads me to ask - What was Joan's day like the day before the disappearance? The day before her vanishing was the day her husband left for business-correct? does anyone know the details regarding Joan's schedule or whereabouts the day before her disappearance?

Martin Risch did not leave the day before. He left the morning of her disappearance, around 6:50/7:00 AM. That was Tuesday, Oct. 24th. I cannot find anything about what she did the day before (Monday, Oct. 23rd) One can only speculate that it was normal, ie. shopping, a few errands, house/yard work, caring for her children...

 

[jgfitzge]

bunnygirl2001 wrote:

6. The husband could of hired someone to kill Joan for any number of reasons - affairs, money, etc.. I don't know if there was any kind of life insurance policy for Joan, but it does strike me odd that Mr. Risch always just assumed she ran off and the family never made any feverous attempt to find Joan or investigate her fate. Then again it was reported that he always kept the same phone number with the thought he may hear from her again one day. Again, only speculation, it could just be how he and the family chose to deal with Joan's disappearance or the attitude of the time.

I have addressed this point a few times. I do not believe Martin Risch had any direct involvement in Joan's death and/or disappearance. However, I really do believe he was not 100% forthcoming in his testimony. I never heard or read where he profited from her death and he never remarried. So, that is why I tend to dismiss the "husband knocks off wife for money or girlfriend" theory. And, yes, the lack of a public attempt or hiring of a PI to solve it says something to me. I think he just compartmentalized (she has amnesia and will call someday...) This is similar to what a lot of people do when confronted with a terrible reality (ex. sex abuse within a family), they set up an alternative reality.

 

[RayCity]

I will reread the PDF documents...but, I thought I read that Mr. Risch said his wife, Joan, had told him about the alleged sexual abuse shortly after they were married. Also, there was something in the documents about having had visits from her parents in the weeks just before she went missing. I keep thinking that perhaps there was some confrontation or questions about the past brought up that made the father panicky.

 

[liz b.]

I will reread the PDF documents...but, I thought I read that Mr. Risch said his wife, Joan, had told him about the alleged sexual abuse shortly after they were married. Also, there was something in the documents about having had visits from her parents in the weeks just before she went missing. I keep thinking that perhaps there was some confrontation or questions about the past brought up that made the father panicky.

Joan's parents died in a house fire when she was 9 years old. She then went to live with her aunt and uncle. I have not seen anything to prove that she was ever in foster care. The house fire that killed her parents was described as "strange". Meaning, I suppose, that it could have been arson. IDK...

 

[pepelepolecat]

Sorry, I am not believing the dentist as abortionist theory or Joan had a reaction to the med using to do a filling. She had a filling ....a filling done at around 10:00 AM. I cannot believe a 'reaction" took place 4.5-5 hours later. We are talking 30-45 minute simple dental procedure. And, comon, a dentist who doubles as a part-time abortionist?

rsbm

Dr. Milton Grissom was a dentist in New Mexico who doubled as a part-time abortionist in the 1920s/30s. His work probably would have gone unnoticed if he hadn't managed to kill one of his patients. I doubt he was the only one.

I can't help but wonder how closely they looked into Barbara Barker, upon whose testimony a large chunk of the day's events hang.

 

[jgfitzge]

rsbm

Dr. Milton Grissom was a dentist in New Mexico who doubled as a part-time abortionist in the 1920s/30s. His work probably would have gone unnoticed if he hadn't managed to kill one of his patients. I doubt he was the only one.

I can't help but wonder how closely they looked into Barbara Barker, upon whose testimony a large chunk of the day's events hang.

Hi Pepe,

Welcome and I appreciate your information on Dr. Milton Grissom. Well, of course if you dig hard enough you can match up just about anything. In other words, I bet I if I look hard enough I can find an orthopedic surgeon who also is an opera singer. I guess, I am just going with the odds. I quickly examine a scenario, and then give it the place on the very possible to probably not spectrum. It just lets me focus a bit more. So, in the past a few other people brought up the dentist as the abortionist theory. I gave it some thought, then put it way down the list. Now, your comment on Barbara Barker is a bit more thought provoking. Again I wish I had the LE file but going with what we know, it appears relatively consistent. When you read other sources they seem to be off on her times by 10-15 minutes, nothing major. Also remember, you had other eye witnesses, like Virginia Keene (high school neighbor) and the witnesses who saw presumably Joan on Routes 2A and 128 later that day. The other thing I think about is if Barbara Barker was altering her story to cover for someone else she had to be fast thinking on her feet and know what the future outcomes would be and no other sightings. However, I seem to have stumbled onto one discrepancy that I need to look at more. The reports say about 3:40 (times vary) she "brought" Lillian back to her mother's house. Now, in some reports it sounds like she walked Lillian (and her son??) to her mother's house. In another source it sounds like she was going to do her shopping, put both kids in her car and pulled up to the house and let Lillian out and drove away. Now, this is where 10-15 minutes makes a difference. Virgina Keene, after getting off her school bus around 3:15, then a 10 minute walk puts her near walking by Joan's house where she saw the blue/gray car in the driveway. So, you can see where I am going here. If Mrs. Barkers drop off time was closer to 3:30 why didn't she see the car? Or, did Virginia's account make Mrs. Barker go more towards the 3:45 time frame?

 

[jgfitzge]

Something strange I've noticed over the years is that quite a few people who went missing did so not long after they moved to a new area.. Wonder if someone her new neighorhood was watching Joan ?

Liz, interesting observation, the more I read about disappearances, unsolved murders, etc..from that era (1960's to the 1980s) and admittedly mostly from my area (New England) I do notice your observation. The newbie neighbor is an outsider and vulnerable to the long standing townsfolk. The other common thread I see, is the role of local LE in the investigation and their relationship with the "locals." Always remember they control where the investigation goes...and if it starts veering towards towards one of their own for example or that family with the crazy kids whose uncle is a cop, well, it begins to stall or take a right turn.

 

[liz b.]

Liz, interesting observation, the more I read about disappearances, unsolved murders, etc..from that era (1960's to the 1980s) and admittedly mostly from my area (New England) I do notice your observation. The newbie neighbor is an outsider and vulnerable to the long standing townsfolk. The other common thread I see, is the role of local LE in the investigation and their relationship with the "locals." Always remember they control where the investigation goes...and if it starts veering towards towards one of their own for example or that family with the crazy kids whose uncle is a cop, well, it begins to stall or take a right turn.

I had pictured Joan's house as being much smaller than it looks in photos. The homes near to Joan's house were/are nice, large homes, set back on large lots. lots of huge old trees.. it would have been easy, I think, for someone to have snuck into Joan's house. It's a real possibility. However, how does one reconcile this possibility with the fact that the phone book was open at the emergency services page ? And that several people thought they saw Joan walking along the highway later that afternoon ?

 

[dogperson]

I still think it's most likely Joan suffered an injury or medical emergency, not that she was attacked in the house. The neighbor saw her outside with something red in her hands (bloody paper towels/towels?) and she may have been seen along the highway. She was alone during those times, so if she was attacked he was long gone by then. I would expect an attacker to stay and finish whatever he came there to do. We know he didn't run off because she was making a lot of noise the neighbors might hear since none of the housewives seem to have heard anything.

She had evidently tried to clean up some of the blood on the floor and if she'd been attacked that doesn't make sense to me. And I don't think the attacker would do it. I think something happened to her that at first didn't seem all that serious, so she tried to clean up the mess. Then when she realized it could be an emergency she got the phone book out and then maybe got dizzy/disoriented, fell or staggered around the kitchen, wandered into her driveway carrying the bloody towels/paper towels and then ended up on the highway later in a state of confusion. Her remains are probably somewhere close to where she was last seen.

 

[jgfitzge]

I had pictured Joan's house as being much smaller than it looks in photos. The homes near to Joan's house were/are nice, large homes, set back on large lots. lots of huge old trees.. it would have been easy, I think, for someone to have snuck into Joan's house. It's a real possibility. However, how does one reconcile this possibility with the fact that the phone book was open at the emergency services page ? And that several people thought they saw Joan walking along the highway later that afternoon ?

Well Liz, if you follow my comments here you will know I put the intruder theory way down the scale. Of course, I cannot dismiss it and maybe one of these days when all else fails that is probably the safest theory to employ. But (yes, a big but..) If it was and an intruder I cannot fathom Joan not screaming when Mrs. Barker saw her around the side of the car/driveway at 2:15. For an intruder to get to Joan's house and not be parked on the street he would have to park on another street and then walk through the neighborhood to get to her house without an eyewitness seeing him. Plus, I am 100% onboard with the eyewitness accounts of her on Route 2 and 128. Remember, she had time to put a kerchief on. Liz, if I read even one eyewitness account of a strange man or other car (not the blue/gray car) then I would move the intruder possibility up the scale. On the phone book page being open to the emergency page, one comment I will make is this. Any one from Massachusetts will back me on this, back then Boston proper had the large white pages, then they issued smaller white page editions for the geographical suburbs (North, West, South.) Now my memory fails me on the exact page but the Emergency page was always the first page or it was listed on the back of the front cover. So, I have two opinions on this one, I am still of the "emergency in the house, possible miscarriage" possibility with the affair component or blue gray car help. So, Joan may have opened it to that first page. Yet, if they had the phone luds no record of a call? Also, with the Emergency numbers on the first page or inside cover, if the book fell from the table or shelf that page being open as opposed to a random interior page is possible. Again, IMO, the blue gray car holds the key.

 

[jgfitzge]

If there is anyone from the Massachusetts area that would like to meet near the Route 2/95/Lexington/Lincoln area to check out the various key points in this mystery, send me a message.

 

[liz b.]

Well Liz, if you follow my comments here you will know I put the intruder theory way down the scale. Of course, I cannot dismiss it and maybe one of these days when all else fails that is probably the safest theory to employ. But (yes, a big but..) If it was and an intruder I cannot fathom Joan not screaming when Mrs. Barker saw her around the side of the car/driveway at 2:15. For an intruder to get to Joan's house and not be parked on the street he would have to park on another street and then walk through the neighborhood to get to her house without an eyewitness seeing him. Plus, I am 100% onboard with the eyewitness accounts of her on Route 2 and 128. Remember, she had time to put a kerchief on. Liz, if I read even one eyewitness account of a strange man or other car (not the blue/gray car) then I would move the intruder possibility up the scale. On the phone book page being open to the emergency page, one comment I will make is this. Any one from Massachusetts will back me on this, back then Boston proper had the large white pages, then they issued smaller white page editions for the geographical suburbs (North, West, South.) Now my memory fails me on the exact page but the Emergency page was always the first page or it was listed on the back of the front cover. So, I have two opinions on this one, I am still of the "emergency in the house, possible miscarriage" possibility with the affair component or blue gray car help. So, Joan may have opened it to that first page. Yet, if they had the phone luds no record of a call? Also, with the Emergency numbers on the first page or inside cover, if the book fell from the table or shelf that page being open as opposed to a random interior page is possible. Again, IMO, the blue gray car holds the key.

No record of a call...probably because someone had ripped the phone from the wall.

 

[bunnygirl2001]

If there is anyone from the Massachusetts area that would like to meet near the Route 2/95/Lexington/Lincoln area to check out the various key points in this mystery, send me a message.

UGHHHH why must I live in California I would love to join you guys!


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[MesquiteO21]

Hi, I'm new to this thread and just trying to sort through it all so I apologize if this has already been discussed:

I'd like to know the truth about the finger/palm prints found in the kitchen. I've read that Joan's prints weren't on file anywhere so we don't have any way of knowing if they belonged to her or not. Other sources say they WERE compared to ones that had been on file for her and that they were not a match. Do we know which is the truth?!!

 

[MesquiteO21]

I just discovered this case yesterday so I've been thinking about it a lot. Here are my thoughts so far:

-Botched abortion: I've seen this brought up here and there and I feel like this was/is easy for investigators to rule in or out. I mean if she was bleeding from her vagina there would be uterine tissue. They would've discovered that when they tested the blood right? I suppose they could've withheld that information publicly. And although the pics are not super clear and I'm no medical expert, the blood doesn't really look like uterine bleeding to me (doesn't appear clumpy). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

-the lack of shoe/foot prints is indeed odd. The only thing I can think of is that she was crawling on her hands and knees. I wonder if any finger/palm prints were found on the floor? I suppose lack of those could be if she had paper towels beneath her hands? and it would explain why witnesses saw blood on her legs while also ruling out botched abortion

-if someone attacked/abducted her I would think the house/kitchen would've been messier. jmo. also no sign of forced entry or struggle at the doors so at the very least it would've been someone she felt comfortable opening the door for

-I think she hurt herself, either on purpose or accidentally. If it was a suicide she could've taken the phone off the wall before she attempted so she wouldn't be able to call for help. But maybe once she hurt herself she freaked out and changed her mind (it's worth nothing here that many people who have attempted suicide and survived said they immediately regretted it as soon as they jumped, cut themselves, etc.). Could also explain the beer - to numb herself up a bit? Also the blood on the car if she initially tried to drive herself to get help, or even maybe look for a first aid kit if they ever kept one in the car? It is worth noting that she appeared in good spirits that day and there was no history of mental illness in her family, however neither of those are enough to exclude the possibility of suicide that day. Even though she was apparently seen walking in the opposite direction of the nearest hospital, maybe she was disoriented or confused or even not familiar enough with the area since they had only lived there a few months.

I just don't think either botched abortion or homicide/abduction scenarios hold enough water.

 

[jgfitzge]

Hi, I'm new to this thread and just trying to sort through it all so I apologize if this has already been discussed:

I'd like to know the truth about the finger/palm prints found in the kitchen. I've read that Joan's prints weren't on file anywhere so we don't have any way of knowing if they belonged to her or not. Other sources say they WERE compared to ones that had been on file for her and that they were not a match. Do we know which is the truth?!!

Hi Mesquite, put out the usual caveats, I believe LE ruled Joan out as the owner of the finger prints. I think I recall reading where it was common in her age group (born in the 30s/Linbergh baby kidnapping) for schools to have student's fingerprints. I think LE got these and compared them. Now, the caveat is I can't produce or point you to a document that says this but it seems from the get-go LE said the prints were not Joans and the palm print was classified as "unidentified."

 

[4SAM]

Here is a question: it says that the blood stopped at end of driveway, yet she was spotted walking down highway. How far is that highway location? Wouldn't her blood had continued? and was there blood out there on the highway area? Was that searched?