GUILTY CO - Natalie Bollinger, 19, Broomfield, 28 Dec 2017 #2 *Arrest*

[Tippy Lynn]

People close to the case are saying more warrants are pending. I think we are in for quite a ride with this case.

I think you’re right. There’s more to the story and more to come.......

 

[Stunned]

I think you’re right. There’s more to the story and more to come.......

Apsolutely agree with this. There has to be more to this story? Or not.

 

[blondieee]

\(c)she took that lethal dose of heroin bc I believe someone stated a person would have to have less than 6 months to live in order for someone to assist their suicide so a lethal dose potentially gave her way less than 6 months, so him aiding in her suicide in that circumstance of said law, would actually work.

In order to have a legal assisted suicide in Colorado, you have to be diagnosed with a terminal illness, have six months left to live, and have two doctors sign off to indicate that you are both terminally ill and mentally/psychologically capable of making this choice. There is a multi-week waiting period for the drug, then, you have to mix and drink the medication yourself. Even if it can be proven that JL killed NB at her own request while she was dying of a lethal dose of heroin, this still qualifies as a crime rather than a physician-assisted suicide.

There are so many rules set in place around assisted suicide partially for this reason. If it weren't this way, murderers would be able to make this argument and get away with their crimes.

 

[Ibiz]

That's correct. Some Joe Blow off craigslist can't just walk up and perform an assisted suicide.

Very Good.

 

[Lewie]

People close to the case are saying more warrants are pending. I think we are in for quite a ride with this case.

Where are you seeing this? Definitely wouldn’t surprise me. I read the Daily Camera article but I didn’t catch anything along these lines.

 

[BRRI]

Where are you seeing this? Definitely wouldn’t surprise me. I read the Daily Camera article but I didn’t catch anything along these lines.

In the theories group. It came from her dad’s family. Multiple people said the same thing. In reality, I would expect, at the least, an investigation into how her boyfriend’s gun wound up in the hands of someone she met for the first time. I also would not be surprised to see some drug related charges. The arrest they made addressed the murder itself, not the drugs. It may not be a stretch to think that had she not been given those drugs, she would not have been impaired and been in this situation, especially if someone close to her gave them to her. JMO though.

 

[BRRI]

Apsolutely agree with this. There has to be more to this story? Or not.

The lethal levels of heroin, for starters. And, her boyfriend’s gun winding up in JL’s hands.

 

[Satchie]

Though not at all similar circumstances, there was a case in NY of a man who methodically arranged his own killing so his family could claim a huge insurance payout. The fraud motive was proven by police.

The man who killed him was at first convicted of murder, but that was overturned when his lawyer argued he'd just held the knife and the victim had done the stabbing with his torso. Rather than a new trial, both sides reached a plea/sentencing agreement. I think perhaps the Crown didn't want to risk setting a legal precedent for an 'assisted suicide' defence.
https://patch.com/new-york/fivetowns/man-sentenced-12-years-prison-death-jeffrey-locker

In that case, the suicidal man was a motivational speaker. Seems to me he could have used his persuasive abilities to rope an addicted ex-con into his fraud scheme, without pointing out the risk that he'd likely spend the rest of his life in prison.

In this case, the emails/texts will, hopefully, tell the real story..

 

[mrkyle]

the term everyone on it is always on it means, if you do heroin, your always doing it, because cleaning out is miserable, It isnt like weed, were you can smoke a few joints and then 2 days later do some more, heroin people are physically addicted to the opiate and they dont stop,heroin junkies shoot up 4-5 times a day around the clock and are never off it.
Source i have done drug testing for oilfield, and restaurant owner and have seen it all. As far as death from dt's seizures do happen with heroin also, much like alcohol, people get very sick vomit all over, sometimes choke to death from vomit when they are half in and out, they also become dehydrated and dry from profuse sweating, diarrhea, and vomiting from coming off it. So yea its bad stuff, the worst.

Anyone comparing alcohol to heroin have to say how common do you hear off someone dying from alcohol poisoning i would say rarely, now how often do you hear of someone dying from heroin overdose/fentanyl, all the time is the answer.

This is a little off topic, but you can really think what she may have been going thru considering the amount of heroin in her system, the only thing that woud change my mind of her, is if it comes out someone drugged her. The picture painted to me is an addict that was suicidal met a pyschopath. The Pyschopath needs death penalty, and our country desperately needs to get ahead of our opiate problem

 

[denise.ellington]

the term everyone on it is always on it means, if you do heroin, your always doing it, because cleaning out is miserable, It isnt like weed, were you can smoke a few joints and then 2 days later do some more, heroin people are physically addicted to the opiate and they dont stop,heroin junkies shoot up 4-5 times a day around the clock and are never off it.
Source i have done drug testing for oilfield, and restaurant owner and have seen it all. As far as death from dt's seizures do happen with heroin also, much like alcohol, people get very sick vomit all over, sometimes choke to death from vomit when they are half in and out, they also become dehydrated and dry from profuse sweating, diarrhea, and vomiting from coming off it. So yea its bad stuff, the worst.

Anyone comparing alcohol to heroin have to say how common do you hear off someone dying from alcohol poisoning i would say rarely, now how often do you hear of someone dying from heroin overdose/fentanyl, all the time is the answer.

This is a little off topic, but you can really think what she may have been going thru considering the amount of heroin in her system, the only thing that woud change my mind of her, is if it comes out someone drugged her. The picture painted to me is an addict that was suicidal met a pyschopath. The Pyschopath needs death penalty, and our country desperately needs to get ahead of our opiate problem

I think we are getting off topic here but to address the previous discussion...

People can obviously due from overdose

People die from alcohol withdrawal

****

Now, in regards to some of the other topics...

Natalie had heroin in her system but she did not sure from an overdose, she died from a gunshot to her head

At this point, it's all speculation of whether she did it to herself to numb out before being killed, or was shot up however, she was an active user so the lethal amount listed in her system want necessary lethal to a habitual user

She had past unsuccessful suicide attempts in the past so whether she feared failing again, was setup, a victim of circumstance, etc... Hopefully the detectives can find more in the text messaging, and Craigslist post. That is where the answers are, I believe.

I hope all of these pieces fall together soon.

JL is definitely lying. To what degree is the question. It doesn't make sense that they were only at the location 8 minutes based on what he said went on there, that no bullet was located and his talking her purse, etc...

There are a lot of unanswered questions about the immediate reporting and search, as well. What family did she speak to last? What did she say/text? Why was the boyfriend's gun left at the house when people have stated he never left home without it? The boyfriend said he was at work but people started he was not at when she went missing. There is more with the boyfriend but we'll start there.

There are so many directions you can go to with this case, TBH. She had many people take advantage, abuse, fail, mistreat, and hurt her throughout her short life. It's heartbreaking.

I feel like while her disease of addiction played a part, it shouldn't be the primary focus.

****

It'd be interesting to remove that factor and look again at everything as well as review the affidavit. Read between the lines. What is he NOT saying. That's where the truth is.

Also, look at this line...

Lopez said Natalie told him that she “needed to get away from her boyfriend because he was bad for her,” but also kept saying that she “loved her boyfriend (JM) and did not want to leave him or hurt him.”

That doesn't fit. If she was suicidal and wanted to get away from JM why would she then say she doesn't want to leave it hurt him?'

That sounds like reasoning, building rapport or begging with a murderer for her life.

*****

In regards to a couple of questions discussed regarding language from the affidavit/news conference, someone had a good definition on an online forum...

"Not a drug related murder," means she wasn't killed because of a drug deal, a debt or anything over drugs... anything of that nature. That does not mean that he did not offer her drugs while they were "together." Possibly free, possibly to get her dazed. It's even likely they did not do drugs together. (A friend comes over. You smoke weed with him. You break his TV. He shoots you. Drugs were there. You did drugs together. But, the shooting was not drug related.)

"Their relationship was not romantic or sexual." That does not mean he was not interested in her and didn't hit on her and she turned him down. At that point, he loses it because he's been rejected. (A man stops a woman and sexually assaulted her. She pulls his mask off and he shoots her because she saw his face. They did not have a romantic or sexual relationship, and her being shot was not the result of a relationship).

*****

And yes, we have right to die here in Colorado but as someone previously reported, that's doesn't make it a free for all.

'To request a prescription for life-ending medication in Colorado, a patient must be:

at least 18 years old
Colorado resident
mentally capable of making and communicating health care decisions,
diagnosed with a terminal disease that will result in death within six months.

A patient who meets the requirements above will be prescribed aid-in-dying medication only if:

The patient makes two verbal requests to their doctor, at least 15 days apart.
The patient gives a written request to the doctor, signed in front of two qualified, adult witnesses. (The law sets out the specific form that the patient must use.)
The prescribing doctor and one other doctor confirm the patient’s diagnosis and prognosis.
The prescribing doctor and one other doctor determine that the patient is capable of making medical decisions.
The patient has a psychological examination, if either doctor feels the patient’s judgment is impaired.
The prescribing doctor confirms that the patient is not being coerced or unduly influenced by others when making the request.
The prescribing doctor informs the patient of any feasible alternatives to the medication, including care to relieve pain and keep the patient comfortable.
The prescribing doctor asks the patient to notify their next of kin of the prescription request. (The doctor cannot require the patient to notify anyone, however.)
The prescribing doctor offers the patient the opportunity to withdraw the request for aid-in-dying medication before granting the prescription.

To use the medication, the patient must be able to ingest it on their own.
A doctor or other person who administers the lethal medication may face criminal charges.'

****

Whoa. I'm long winded this morning! [emoji6]






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[eastcoasterinco]

Sorry if this has been brought up!

Natalie’s purse.

As a reminder, the affidavit says LE located the purse in JML’s vehicle underneath his spare tire. It was not located at the scene, so we only have JML’s word to go on regarding the purse at the moment.

In the affidavit JML changes his story a few times.

In his first story that NB committed suicide in front of him, he claims he panicked and grabbed her purse that was laying on the ground, along with the gun.

If that was true, why did Natalie bring her purse to commit suicide? Why not leave it at the apartment or in his car?

Next, LE informs JML that they know from the autopsy that suicide was not the COD. JML then changes his story and says NB convinced him to kill her.

He says after the shooting he returned to his house and that is when he hid the gun and her purse underneath the spare tire.

If that was true, the question about the purse still remains. If NB knew she was going to be shot, why take her purse with her to the dairy?

Some, including myself, have speculated early on that since a bullet wasn’t retrieved from the crime scene that NB must have been shot elsewhere and transported to the Dairy.

If that was true, the purse still remains a question - why would the perp lie twice, specifically, about gathering the purse along with the gun after the shooting? Why not claim she left it in his vehicle?

Another theory has been that NB was selling the gun, perhaps on craigslist. The only scenario that makes a little sense to me, if the purse was in fact at the scene, is that she went to the Dairy willingly with JML, perhaps to test the gun, and then was killed.

But if that was true, why would NB bring her purse but not her cell, unless she just forgot her phone at home.

I’d like to rule out the idea that she was taken unwillingly from her apartment. I think, if that was the case, the purse wouldn’t be involved unless it was a robbery scenario (i.e taking her to the ATM) but NB was not an ideal victim for a robber.

MOO

What are everyone’s thoughts?


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[denise.ellington]

Sorry if this has been brought up!

Natalie’s purse.

As a reminder, the affidavit says LE located the purse in JML’s vehicle underneath his spare tire. It was not located at the scene, so we only have JML’s word to go on regarding the purse at the moment.

In the affidavit JML changes his story a few times.

In his first story that NB committed suicide in front of him, he claims he panicked and grabbed her purse that was laying on the ground, along with the gun.

If that was true, why did Natalie bring her purse to commit suicide? Why not leave it at the apartment or in his car?

Next, LE informs JML that they know from the autopsy that suicide was not the COD. JML then changes his story and says NB convinced him to kill her.

He says after the shooting he returned to his house and that is when he hid the gun and her purse underneath the spare tire.

If that was true, the question about the purse still remains. If NB knew she was going to be shot, why take her purse with her to the dairy?

Some, including myself, have speculated early on that since a bullet wasn’t retrieved from the crime scene that NB must have been shot elsewhere and transported to the Dairy.

If that was true, the purse still remains a question - why would the perp lie twice, specifically, about gathering the purse along with the gun after the shooting? Why not claim she left it in his vehicle?

Another theory has been that NB was selling the gun, perhaps on craigslist. The only scenario that makes a little sense to me, if the purse was in fact at the scene, is that she went to the Dairy willingly with JML, perhaps to test the gun, and then was killed.

But if that was true, why would NB bring her purse but not her cell, unless she just forgot her phone at home.

I’d like to rule out the idea that she was taken unwillingly from her apartment. I think, if that was the case, the purse wouldn’t be involved unless it was a robbery scenario (i.e taking her to the ATM) but NB was not an ideal victim for a robber.

MOO

What are everyone’s thoughts?


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I concur... Those are all great questions and similar to the ones I stated above.

"JL is definitely lying. To what degree is the question. It doesn't make sense that they were only at the location 8 minutes based on what he said went on there, that no bullet was located and his taking her purse, etc..."

The phone still puzzles me and that's where I go back to the NB purposely not taking it for some reason. I'd love to know what those final conversations were that have been referenced (outside of the text exchanges). Something that just popped in my head is the setup theory.

What if she didn't take her phone because she couldn't find it or didn't have it at the time JL came to the house. I'm totally speculating at this point but...

There have been messages stating the boyfriend said he was at work during the time of her disappearance although he (per said messages) was not.

Could JM, the boyfriend created the Craigslist ad and been communicating with JL with NBs phone?

Could JM then tell NB he was selling the gun to JM and he wouldn't be home at the time so would NB take care of the sale?

If JL wanted to test the gun, she may have used her purse to conceal the gun.

Then when JM returned home he could return the phone to a visible location and make the report of the gun missing and phone being there.

Now obviously, I've just created a ton of additional questions... Wouldn't she be scared? Did JL have an understanding that it was a request from the boyfriend and not NB to kill her (seems he would've rolled on that during interrogation)? I could go on and on...

I just kept going back to only 8 minutes at the location she was discovered (I do feel she was killed there but that's just my opinion) and how would he have the forethought to take not only the purse (which makes me think he'd handled it and was worried about prints) but the bullet. The gun doesn't surprise me. I imagine it was part of the deal and he likely would've just kept it.

There's so many questions and I've heard more warrants were being served so I have no doubt they'll be many more twists and turns.

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[Lewie]

What if she didn't take her phone because she couldn't find it or didn't have it at the time JL came to the house. I'm totally speculating at this point but...

There have been messages stating the boyfriend said he was at work during the time of her disappearance although he (per said messages) was not.

Could JM, the boyfriend created the Craigslist ad and been communicating with JL with NBs phone?

Could JM then tell NB he was selling the gun to JM and he wouldn't be home at the time so would NB take care of the sale?

If JL wanted to test the gun, she may have used her purse to conceal the gun.

Then when JM returned home he could return the phone to a visible location and make the report of the gun missing and phone being there.

Respectfully snipped for clarity.

I like where you’re going with this. I’m also questioning JMs story. If JM wasn’t honest about where he was, that makes his entire story suspicious in my mind.

The scenario (well, snippets thereof) that makes the most sense to me at this second is that someone hired JL to kill her, potentially via Craigslist. Whoever that is was probably using her phone to arrange it. It wouldnt surprise me if she genuinely had thought she lost her phone, particularly if she was using.

Telling NB it was a gun sale makes a lot of sense. “Just meet the guy outside at 12, he’ll be in a white Nissan with temp tags”. Maybe she was nervous, so she shot up right before?

Things that seem too strange/random for fiction:
- hire hitman via Craigslist
- JL responded to the CL post with his hitman persona
- JL was told he could sell the gun (gun=payment)
- I also think there might be something to the level of detail JL provided about the problems with the boyfriend.

Why would someone realize their gun was missing so quickly? I feel like you either leave your gun in a safe/drawer/closet and forget about it or you keep it basically on your person. In the former case, you’d have to be looking for it to realize it’s missing. Granted, there may have been good reason for JM to be looking for it, but it seems very coincidental.

There are a fair number of perps who believe they’ll be crossed off the suspect list if they are the ones to file the missing persons report.

If the rumors are true that more charges are pending, I would guess some will be directly related to Natalie’s death and not purely secondary like drugs, weapon possession, trespass, etc.

 

[PetDetective]

SBM
Things that seem too strange/random for fiction:
- hire hitman via Craigslist
- JL responded to the CL post with his hitman persona
- JL was told he could sell the gun (gun=payment)
- I also think there might be something to the level of detail JL provided about the problems with the boyfriend.

Why would someone realize their gun was missing so quickly? I feel like you either leave your gun in a safe/drawer/closet and forget about it or you keep it basically on your person.

Agree with all of this ⬆️

Him saying he responded with his hitman persona that he created on an app called Amino is what leads me to believe he actually contacted her on Amino, because otherwise he would have said he created an email address to contact her. If I am right about that, then he’s totally lying about CL.

Assuming the gun is in fact her bf’s, I believe him keeping it very well could have been payment. From NB or JM is the question.

I also think that her talking to him about her relationship carries a lot of weight. It speaks volumes imo.
-why was she so comfortable discussing him with this stranger?
-how did they get onto the topic of her bf in the first place?

Makes me wonder if JL and JM knew each other? If JM is the reason that JL & NB came to know one another?

If JM came up with a reason why NB needed to take his gun and go with JL that day without her phone, then this whole situation starts to make more sense to me.


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[Lewie]

If JM came up with a reason why NB needed to take his gun and go with JL that day without her phone, then this whole situation starts to make more sense to me.

Yep, that’s where I’m at.

I’m thinking someone advertised on CL for a hit on her and JL saw it and responded using a personality he had already created in his mind and used on Amino. It just so happened to work well for the CL ad also. NB doesn’t strike me as someone who would use Amino, but admittedly I know nothing about it and that’s very much generalizing.

I also tend to think what JL relayed about the relationship issues is true and was said, just that it came out of someone else’s mouth.

 

[PetDetective]

Yep, that’s where I’m at.

I’m thinking someone advertised on CL for a hit on her and JL saw it and responded using a personality he had already created in his mind and used on Amino. It just so happened to work well for the CL ad also. NB doesn’t strike me as someone who would use Amino, but admittedly I know nothing about it and that’s very much generalizing.

I also tend to think what JL relayed about the relationship issues is true and was said, just that it came out of someone else’s mouth.

I don’t know the area well at all, but when looking at past addresses of JL and JM, the city of Thornton is a city they have in common.

Most of the people on Amino are artists who draw these characters as well as create stories for them. I do know NB was an artist, so it’s not too far fetched for me to believe she may have been on there. Most of his characters are on there via DeviantArt.

I also believe his account of their convo re:relationship issues, however, I also believe she is the one who told him.


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[Thinker22]

Maybe she didn't take her phone with her because it was so low on charge. I can see her thinking "Oh, selling this item (gun?) will only take a few minutes and I need to leave my phone on the charger because I need it later today." JM came home, looked at the texts/messages, and didn't plug it back into the charger.

 

[PetDetective]

The more I think about it, the more sure I am that there is a missing link in this story between NB & JL. And there is only one person who would fit perfectly.


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[denise.ellington]

The more I think about it, the more sure I am that there is a missing link in this story between NB & JL. And there is only one person who would fit perfectly.


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Elaborate? I'm curious what you're thoughts are. I think I know but... Now I'm intrigued.

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[PetDetective]

Elaborate? I'm curious what you're thoughts are. I think I know but... Now I'm intrigued.

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Her boyfriend. The only way he got that gun is either JM or NB gave it to him at some point.
If JL knows JM, it would make sense that she would be discussing her concerns/frustrations re: JM with JL.

Also, I noticed JM has a previous address in Thornton, where JL lived.