IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #82

[Jabarn]

Been following this thread a few days without posting. Glad the thread IS reopened, and there have been some great thoughts posted.

When you think of school shootings, a particular personality comes to mind.

When you think of two girls ambushed on a trail (a bridge that is part of a trail system, I mean), that’s a different personality. Right?

Maybe some of you can help me out.

It seems some of the profiling information provided by the FBI that was popularized in the movie Silence of the Lambs is ignored now.

I know there are mistakes made in profiling, but sometimes it’s the right sort of information at the right time. Did mistakes kill the work of the FBI? Are small towns still holding onto investigations not wanting help from outside sources?

Hope what I am asking makes sense. Thanks, everyone, who has remained loyal to this case.

 

[Shiressleuth]

LE has been consistent in reporting that BG is the suspect, not the suspect's dad.

LE can get things wrong sometimes. This is an interesting angle. Or BG could be the killer's brother?
:cow:

 

[Try2solve]

Listening to the radio this afternoon, they were talking about the Florida shooting and how someone had turned in a tip to the FBI on Cruz back in early January. He'd made some threatening comments online about shooting up a school and killing people so at least one person turned it into the FBI. No action was taken. It reminded me of the Delphi murder. Many people have said, "He can't be local or else someone would've turned him in by now" but I've always wondered if maybe someone DID tip authorities and the tip fell through. Maybe it wasn't taken seriously, maybe it didn't make it through the proper channels, or maybe BG was interviewed but somehow had an alibi and was written off. (People lie, soft alibis can be hard to prove.) My point is, just because we don't have an arrest doesn't mean that someone hasn't tried so far. If this is the case, I hope they keep at it.

Completely agree. If I felt I knew who BG was, I would email tip, call, email Carter,Holeman, and the prosecutor. Seriously.

 

[Jax49]

Trail improvements planned and funded, 1 year after Delphi double murder

http://fox59.com/2018/02/14/trail-improvements-planned-and-funded-1-year-after-delphi-double-murder/

"The Delphi Historic Trails represent about a network of roughly 10 miles of walking paths. They draw visitors and tourists to the county and to Delphi, but since the murders, Leahy said requests for trail maps have pretty much stopped."

bbm

 

[Try2solve]

LE can get things wrong sometimes. This is an interesting angle. Or BG could be the killer's brother?
:cow:

Exactly. No guarantees. In fact, at the 2/22/17 presser they couldn't guarantee us the voice was BG's.

 

[Yvettea]

Exactly. No guarantees. In fact, at the 2/22/17 presser they couldn't guarantee us the voice was BG's.

I ask a mod to be sure.

 

[ashleybruemleve]

BG wore a big jacket, huge pants, extra clothing, more than one covering on his head. It goes to logic that he was carrying weapons, tools, etc. under his clothing. I wouldn't think one generally travels around on foot like that as it would probably be rather uncomfortable. So I tend to think BG packed for the day, rather than lived with this getup on a daily basis. Maybe..........he stole tools from local sheds.

I'm not denying that BG may have been carrying a "kill kit" (for lack of a better term[emoji20]), but I want to discuss a common misconception about his clothing that I have read countless times. I, myself, have even been guilty of this thinking early on.

I'm a life-long Hoosier and we are never surprised by our ever-changing weather. It's very common for us to see spurts of warm weather days in months like February. The entire WEEK of the murders, we saw above average temperatures, ranging from just a few degrees to nearly 25 degrees warmer. The misconception comes with the actual temperature on February 13th, the day the girls went missing. Although other days that week (specifically Friday and Saturday) were nearly 60 degrees, that Monday in Delphi only saw a high temp of 43 degrees. It was not nearly as warm as what people tend to think...

So what does this mean and how has it caused a misconception in my opinion? It has to do with the clothing and the consensus that BG is dressed unseasonably warm. I actually believe BG was dressed appropriately for an ADULT for 43 degree weather in Indiana. On the other hand, young people like Abby and Libby, would have likely felt it was a "warm day" in comparison to a few days prior. Therefore, Abby wears jeans, a shirt, and a Spring-like jacket while Libby chooses leggings and her tie-dye t-shirt. I would have done the same thing at their age in thinking it was a "warm" day, but my adult self would be dressed much more like BG, with a heavy jacket, hat, and maybe even gloves. Especially out in the open, like on a bridge, where there is nothing to block the wind.

Obviously this doesn't ultimately help the case, but I think it's worth pointing out there may be a misconception about BG's clothing. I truly don't believe he was purposefully overdressed in an effort to conceal anything. That doesn't mean I don't think he may have hidden a weapon under his jacket, but I don't see him being so overly bundled up that it would have raised any eyebrows. IMO he wasn't dressed in a manner that was atypical for a 43 degree day in Indiana. If anything, the girls were probably wishing they had dressed a little warmer. Unfortunately, that is a mute point. [emoji174]

I realize this is long...much longer than I intended it to be...but I hope I conveyed my point. The clothing of BG is an important piece as it could help in his identification. My fear is that someone might suspect their loved one, but then think "well they weren't dressed out of the ordinary that day so it just couldn't be him!" I don't want someone to discount a suspicion because of this misconception, no matter how minor. This person didn't necessarily layer up to go on his evil mission. It is conceivable this was not some sort of master plan, but a crime of opportunity. Maybe upstanding citizen "Joe Blow," dressed like he always does, kissed his wife and told her he was going out for a bit...two precious girls are murdered and he is back home before anyone knows of the tragedy. The possibility that Joe Blow is responsible never crosses his wife's mind or she completely discounts the notion because he wasn't dressed out of the ordinary and certainly not in a way to indicate he was going to commit murder...

I know...LONG LONG SHOT. But, IMO, this is the type of break LE is desperately seeking. I believe they know or have an idea of who BG is, but they need that identification to make an arrest. They need that specific person, the one they make a plea to in every PC, to come forward. We won't know if any of this matters until the truth comes out, but it can't hurt to make mention of.

So sorry for the long post! Thank you to all who continue to seek justice for our Hoosier Angels! [emoji171][emoji172][emoji171][emoji172][emoji171][emoji172][emoji171][emoji172][emoji171]

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[Gisjoe]

BG may or may not have been wearing clothes he doesn’t normally wear. IMO. But that hat. Rolled up bill and the way he wears it looks to be his hat. Anyone who wears a hat like that wears it all the time. The same style. I’ve never seen anyone over 45 wear their hat with a bill that rolled. Which make me think he is under 45.


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[mtnlites]

I'm not denying that BG may have been carrying a "kill kit" (for lack of a better term[emoji20]), but I want to discuss a common misconception about his clothing that I have read countless times. I, myself, have even been guilty of this thinking early on.

I'm a life-long Hoosier and we are never surprised by our ever-changing weather. It's very common for us to see spurts of warm weather days in months like February. The entire WEEK of the murders, we saw above average temperatures, ranging from just a few degrees to nearly 25 degrees warmer. The misconception comes with the actual temperature on February 13th, the day the girls went missing. Although other days that week (specifically Friday and Saturday) were nearly 60 degrees, that Monday in Delphi only saw a high temp of 43 degrees. It was not nearly as warm as what people tend to think...

So what does this mean and how has it caused a misconception in my opinion? It has to do with the clothing and the consensus that BG is dressed unseasonably warm. I actually believe BG was dressed appropriately for an ADULT for 43 degree weather in Indiana. On the other hand, young people like Abby and Libby, would have likely felt it was a "warm day" in comparison to a few days prior. Therefore, Abby wears jeans, a shirt, and a Spring-like jacket while Libby chooses leggings and her tie-dye t-shirt. I would have done the same thing at their age in thinking it was a "warm" day, but my adult self would be dressed much more like BG, with a heavy jacket, hat, and maybe even gloves. Especially out in the open, like on a bridge, where there is nothing to block the wind.

Obviously this doesn't ultimately help the case, but I think it's worth pointing out there may be a misconception about BG's clothing. I truly don't believe he was purposefully overdressed in an effort to conceal anything. That doesn't mean I don't think he may have hidden a weapon under his jacket, but I don't see him being so overly bundled up that it would have raised any eyebrows. IMO he wasn't dressed in a manner that was atypical for a 43 degree day in Indiana. If anything, the girls were probably wishing they had dressed a little warmer. Unfortunately, that is a mute point.

Snipped by me...

This is a GREAT point! We were in Delphi a few weeks ago and even then, we went through various changes of outerwear. When we got there, it had just dumped a bunch of snow and ice on Indiana. We were bundled up in heavy coats, long sleeves, etc. The next day, however, it was pleasant. Snow melted a little and the kids were outside running around without jackets. I, however, was still wearing my heavy coat. I get cold easily. Same goes for where I live. We'll have several days of very cold weather (talking 0 degrees) and then we'll have a "warm" day of 45 or 50. I'll still be in my coat while the kids are screaming "heat wave" and looking for any opportunity to slip on shorts. My kids probably wouldn't put on coats or jackets at ALL if left to their own devices. I, on the other hand, look like I'm going on an arctic mission most of the time.

It was warmer that day than it had been but it's not like we're talking 80 degrees. It was still chilly. The park has a lot of trees and you don't get a lot of direct sunlight in places. That bridge is windy. The jacket BG is wearing looks lightweight (I just think that HE is a little "bulky"). I don't think he's overdressed at all.

 

[KimboSlice]

Hi guys! Haven’t posted in awhile but have been following closely. I just started listening to the Jennifer Kesse podcast and it was mentioned that LE initially only released frames of the POI from the surveillance video. At the time they stated that this was to protect the integrity of the investigation. The family from the start requested that the full video be released. After 17 months they ended up releasing the full video (with the exception of 20 seconds that has been debated). The podcast suggests that this could have been due to new detectives on the case and/or that so much time had gone by without any progress. Just found this interesting in the similarities to what was released with Abby and Libby and has me holding out hope that someday we’ll get to see some of the video. Of course this could all be null and void if the video is upsetting/disturbing and not suitable to public release. MOO.


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[eastcoasterinco]

all AFAIK

Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday after noon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw.

"They said that they had said, 'Hi' and he, like, just brushed them off and kept going," Chasity said.

The teens said the man seemed out of place, though Chasity says that "could just be a rumor."

The children described the man wearing all black. Meanwhile, police continue their search for a man dressed differently.

https://www.wthr.com/article/memorial-grows-as-police-continue-search-for-delphi-girls-killer

How in the world did I miss this! There were, according to this article, friends on the trail with the girls that day?!


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[ashleybruemleve]

I'm glad folks here are asking questions about the presser. I've caught only excerpts of it. It didn't seem like there was any info to get from it, on my end, but reading the opinions of folks here about it is interesting to me.

I have a question for folks outside Indiana, say in the Midwest and maybe beyond: Has there been any local coverage of the presser? None of the stations here in Fort Wayne carried it live, I found this odd as it took place at 4PM, not exactly a high revenue part of a typical TV station's schedule. I take it the Indy stations all had it live.

Could this be another sign of sorts, like how members here think LE might be (what I call) telegraphing to BG or his family members? Telegraphing to the part of Indiana surrounding Delphi and down towards Indy, only? Why even have a presser?

I have similar thoughts that the press conference was targeting a certain audience, specifically speaking to the one who knows who BG is. I truly believe that was the entire point of it and the location was intended to tug at the heart/weigh on the conscience of that person.

Side note: WANE-TV aired the press conference on Facebook and also did a multi-segment special on the girls this week. I believe I also saw something on WFFT-55 Fort Wayne. I think our area news stations have always done a great job of keeping this tragedy in the public eye.

As always, IMO. [emoji177]

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[gregjrichards]

Hi guys! Haven’t posted in awhile but have been following closely. I just started listening to the Jennifer Kesse podcast and it was mentioned that LE initially only released frames of the POI from the surveillance video. At the time they stated that this was to protect the integrity of the investigation. The family from the start requested that the full video be released. After 17 months they ended up releasing the full video (with the exception of 20 seconds that has been debated). The podcast suggests that this could have been due to new detectives on the case and/or that so much time had gone by without any progress. Just found this interesting in the similarities to what was released with Abby and Libby and has me holding out hope that someday we’ll get to see some of the video. Of course this could all be null and void if the video is upsetting/disturbing and not suitable to public release. MOO.


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I don’t think we will ever see the video but will likely hear details of what is on it if and when there is a trial. The content of the video is likely to be harrowing audio and shaky video of the attack. I don’t think you would see a clearer shot of monster on it.

How in the world did I miss this! There were, according to this article, friends on the trail with the girls that day?!


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Not a lot of known about this as far as I recall. I don’t know what time they were there or if they saw Abigail and Liberty and if so when and where.

 

[kidetect22]

I'm not denying that BG may have been carrying a "kill kit" (for lack of a better term[emoji20]), but I want to discuss a common misconception about his clothing that I have read countless times. I, myself, have even been guilty of this thinking early on.

I'm a life-long Hoosier and we are never surprised by our ever-changing weather. It's very common for us to see spurts of warm weather days in months like February. The entire WEEK of the murders, we saw above average temperatures, ranging from just a few degrees to nearly 25 degrees warmer. The misconception comes with the actual temperature on February 13th, the day the girls went missing. Although other days that week (specifically Friday and Saturday) were nearly 60 degrees, that Monday in Delphi only saw a high temp of 43 degrees. It was not nearly as warm as what people tend to think...

So what does this mean and how has it caused a misconception in my opinion? It has to do with the clothing and the consensus that BG is dressed unseasonably warm. I actually believe BG was dressed appropriately for an ADULT for 43 degree weather in Indiana. On the other hand, young people like Abby and Libby, would have likely felt it was a "warm day" in comparison to a few days prior. Therefore, Abby wears jeans, a shirt, and a Spring-like jacket while Libby chooses leggings and her tie-dye t-shirt. I would have done the same thing at their age in thinking it was a "warm" day, but my adult self would be dressed much more like BG, with a heavy jacket, hat, and maybe even gloves. Especially out in the open, like on a bridge, where there is nothing to block the wind.

Obviously this doesn't ultimately help the case, but I think it's worth pointing out there may be a misconception about BG's clothing. I truly don't believe he was purposefully overdressed in an effort to conceal anything. That doesn't mean I don't think he may have hidden a weapon under his jacket, but I don't see him being so overly bundled up that it would have raised any eyebrows. IMO he wasn't dressed in a manner that was atypical for a 43 degree day in Indiana. If anything, the girls were probably wishing they had dressed a little warmer. Unfortunately, that is a mute point. [emoji174]

I realize this is long...much longer than I intended it to be...but I hope I conveyed my point. The clothing of BG is an important piece as it could help in his identification. My fear is that someone might suspect their loved one, but then think "well they weren't dressed out of the ordinary that day so it just couldn't be him!" I don't want someone to discount a suspicion because of this misconception, no matter how minor. This person didn't necessarily layer up to go on his evil mission. It is conceivable this was not some sort of master plan, but a crime of opportunity. Maybe upstanding citizen "Joe Blow," dressed like he always does, kissed his wife and told her he was going out for a bit...two precious girls are murdered and he is back home before anyone knows of the tragedy. The possibility that Joe Blow is responsible never crosses his wife's mind or she completely discounts the notion because he wasn't dressed out of the ordinary and certainly not in a way to indicate he was going to commit murder...

I know...LONG LONG SHOT. But, IMO, this is the type of break LE is desperately seeking. I believe they know or have an idea of who BG is, but they need that identification to make an arrest. They need that specific person, the one they make a plea to in every PC, to come forward. We won't know if any of this matters until the truth comes out, but it can't hurt to make mention of.

So sorry for the long post! Thank you to all who continue to seek justice for our Hoosier Angels! [emoji171][emoji172][emoji171][emoji172][emoji171][emoji172][emoji171][emoji172][emoji171]

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Yes yes and yes!!! I never thought of BG as overdressed either. Midwest girl here and I still wear my big winter coat on 40 degree days! I may not wear it to briefly run an errand but if I knew I’d be outside walking I’d be be pretty bundled myself.

 

[mtnlites]

Been thinking about them releasing more of the video...Unless the families are proactive in asking them to do it, I'm okay with them keeping it to themselves. I keep reminding myself that the families continue to be supportive of LE's efforts and they haven't complained yet. If they thought that the remainder of the video could help with identifying BG then I think they'd have said something. And several of the close family members (we're talking immediate members) have been VERY active on SM and have answered a barrage of questions. Not once have they said that they think more of that should be released. Until they do, I am going to assume that its contents are just too personal and don't contain any identifying information.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Re: BG's mode of transportation...

" Carter answered, "Um, likely. Walked a certain distance, yes. We don't have any indication that he was close by where he parked a vehicle, because we don't have any information on a vehicle.""

New tips, new subpoenas in new year of hunting for Delphi killer
http://fox59.com/2018/02/13/new-tips-new-subpoenas-in-new-year-of-hunting-for-delphi-killer/

Never heard of the vehicle track which was clearly seen on the large field beside the cemetery (from the woods to the street if I remember well). In February 2017 I thought it to be caused by a fleeing perp.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

May I ask did anyone see the interview Anthony Greeno did with Seargent Riley after the conference? Sgt Riley did state that yes DN was a POI. He said yes he is! Confusing as to what Carter said I know. But please ignore the fact it's Greeno/ what Sgt Riley stated is what is important ..

BBM

But one should not ignore the fact that it's Greeno.

He is a convicted felon who has attempted to profit off this case and exploit DN.

If anyone isn't sure who he is, just look up his name on the internet.

Merely typing his name makes me ill.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

As far as Websleuths is concerned, DN is no longer a person of interest or a suspect in the murders of Abby and Libby.

Until law enforcement comes out and says that are looking at DN again for whatever reason, DN is no longer up for discussion on Websleuths.

Thank you,
Tricia

Bumping

 

[ashleybruemleve]

A scenario where LE has DNA from the crime scene but can only exclude and not 100% include would be they have only a partial DNA sample. A DNA sample that will not provide a full profile. This could be a solid reason as to why we have not seen a Parabon snapshot. IMO the partial DNA sample from the crime scene was enough to give some physical characteristics; Caucasian, male, reddish brown hair and NOT blue eyes. This is from my knowledge they are only interviewing and gathering DNA swabs from white males. The DNA sample they have from the CS is NOT a female.

What they may not be able to pull from the partial is facial and skull shape features (don’t think about the face) but the captured video stills and witnesses could help fill in these descriptions.

IMO if LE did in fact possess a full profile DNA sample, other video and audio evidence may have been released. Someone will need to provide the correct name of BG in order to solve this case. Social Media, Web Sleuths and online blogs/threads are a hot bed for a rumor that will eventually surface to guide LE in the right direction.

Cell phone tracking data IMO has been provided with no results. IMO BG wasn’t carrying a cell phone and for only one reason.

The Correct Definition
So, in the literature, a “partial DNA match” means a full DNA profile of a suspect that only “matches” in part to a full DNA profiled crime scene DNA sample. As the writer below ctates, that is supposed to lead to a suspect’s “exclusion.”
There are no numbers in the article to enlighten us as to how many loci are necessary for a “partial DNA match” to allow a prosecutor to follow the pathway (a “familial” partial DNA match) to ultimately obtaining a full profile of some relation who is the actual perpetrator.
https://csidds.com/2015/07/09/foren...-dna-match-or-what-are-we-talking-about-here/

What is Snapshot?
Snapshot is a forensic analysis service developed by Parabon that can help law enforcement generate new investigative leads, narrow suspect lists, and help solve human remains cases. Using modern SNP technology, Snapshot generates a composite sketch from a DNA sample — a process known as DNA Phenotyping. A Snapshot composite includes sex, ancestry, pigmentation (skin color, hair color, eye color, freckling), and even face morphology. A statistical confidence measure accompanies each phenotype prediction, and phenotype ranges that can be excluded with ≥90% confidence are also reported.

https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com

Thank you for this!!! Absolutely crucial information here and a great piece to educate the public on this incredible technology! I would have anticipated a lot of responses to this one.

Thank You! [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

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[mtnlites]

BBM

But one should not ignore the fact that it's Greeno.

He is a convicted felon who has attempted to profit off this case and exploit DN.

If anyone isn't sure who he is, just look up his name on the internet.

Merely typing his name makes me ill.

He's not "real" media, either. And I have serious qualms about this particular video, especially the editing of it. One of the reasons that I like WS is because they only allow sources from MSM. These reports are meant to be unbiased. This person, who simply makes You Tube videos, is VERY biased and makes no bones about it. Many of the "scenes" in this particular video are cut short and spliced together.