CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #2

[Amonet]

I will say what stands out to me in that post from Jen is that they cut off friends - at the very least, people that had their phone numbers. I can sympathize with the post, but ignoring friends is a red flag.

BBM

I think it goes along with other descriptions of being insular. All the stresses sound like they stay inside that home and bounce around the people inside it rather than phone calls and coffee meets with friends to get stuff off your chest.

I had misunderstood at the beginning, I thought it was the Dekalbs who'd moved in recently. How long had the Harts lived in the WA home?

Moving home is stressful. Bereavement is stressful (it hurts to lose an animal family member). Cancer is stressful. And cancer can sometimes return. A kid running to the neighbor saying she's being abused. A kid running to the neighbor saying he's having food withheld. CPS on the doorstep *again*, and given the moves following previous CPS interactions that's going to be a major stressor. A feeling that the world doesn't understand...having to face so many comments from the trolls of the world. A feeling of having to struggle against "the government".

Six kids between 12 and 19 years old, all cooped up in that home and going through all those things as well. Teen hormones exploding all over the place. Teens that are used to going to outdoors events, singing and dancing at hippy festivals, hiking and camping expeditions.

An entire family that's engrossed in how people are oppressed by governments and each other with racism, sexism, gender identity, same-sex relationships, marriage and parenting, the destruction of the environment. They educate themselves and the children (some might say that with the children there's a fine line between positive education in these topics to build a sense of empowerment and the negative aspects of being immersed in those issues and struggles). What happens when the family loses the ability to take off for a festival and relax among like-minded people?

That song with the line about driving into the ocean...it was called Mr Washington? As in Mr Washington DC? The one who just sent his CPS minions out to check up on your family which is already stressed out and in some places breaking under the stress?

 

[Amonet]

Yeah, that seems really far fetched.

It might seem far-fetched to you to read Jen connecting a totaled car, fighting with an insurance company to discrimination and homelessness, but I think the point is that she's making these connections in her mind.

 

[Alireba]

My take on JH not looking like most of the many (many!) pix of her and the family that have been found online:
If the public photo trail of her family ended around 2016, perhaps because things were already spiraling out of control in her mind, then her appearance could have changed dramatically over the course of several months of increasing stress. That may be part of the reason why there aren’t many pictures to be found after 2016. JH was obviously very much interested in showing the world her ‘tribe’, especially with her beaming in the poses. I am struck by how many of these photos have been found. IMHO most of us would not want that many pictures of our family out there for public consumption, but JH seemed intent on doing that for reasons we can only guess at. If her appearance had been changing, like gaining weight for instance, she may have been self-conscious of that & not want that documented by photo evidence that could be easily seen. Just surmising here.

Also wanted to say that the report that JH arrived home ‘from work’ just shortly before SH, and then CPS knocked at their door soon after, came from the neighbor, Mrs. D. She may not have been accurate about where JH had been prior to arriving home. Like many things in this tragically bizarre, and bizarrely tragic case, this is mostly conjecture.

I found this copied post by Jen Hart on Facebook
💜Here’s an ominous message that Jen Hart wrote on her fb page last summer...after their ‘Hug Seen Around The World’ notoriety and challenges. This is a glimpse of their experience...

“I unplugged from Facebook for over half of this year. I've had to change my/our phone number(s) twice. I've steered clear of public settings for the most part. Rather than answering the floods of messages like: Where have you been? Why haven't you responded to my texts? Etc - I'll try and address SOME of the things that led to the disconnect.

This. Year. Slammed. Us. Hard. It was as if we were continuously seeing this "Proceed No Further" sign showing up in a myriad of ways.

Extremely simplified explanation:
Loss of a friend
Loss of 5 animals(2 in the last month)
Serious stalking and threats of violence towards me and my family
Robbed/vandalism
Cancer
3 job transfers(Sarah)
Several other very challenging medical diagnosis
Surgery

Sarah: rear ended in a car accident. Totaled
Discrimination from the government & insurance companies - which nearly led to homelessness weeks before closing on our home. Yeah. This is still a thing that happens. Thanks to my wife for being a badass superhero along side of me to combat this bs.

*All of this while home hunting non stop for over a year.

*All of this during an already very terrifying time in this country (and Portland...holy ****)

*All of this while trying to be supportive and loving wife whilst raising 6 teenagers.

So, where have I(we) been?
SELF CARE, y'all. I've been taking care of myself and my family. Our safety, emotional and physical health are always the absolute most important things. Period. Releasing the expectations to show up here or elsewhere was vital in my own healing. I am no service to others if my tank is empty.

What do we need? What we need is loving understanding that there is a lot going on, and that we are working on putting our lives back together now that we've finally purchased our new home/land. Time. Trust building. Time. Trust building. TIME. We've been fighting the good fight always - just a little more behind the scenes than usual.

What we don't need:
-pity or sorrow for these struggles
-guilt trips for not meeting your expectations
-pressure of any kind.

We've embarked on an incredible new journey up on some beautiful land in Washington. After over 4 1/2 years in the PNW, we finally feel at HOME. We're looking forward to sharing it with everyone... when the time is right.

Big💓Love

Oh - and if you still have our old phone numbers, please don't text or call them anymore...unless you like really colorful language from strangers.😆”

- Jen Hart, June 2017

 

[enelram]

From Jen's FB post above:

What do we need? What we need is loving understanding that there is a lot going on, and that we are working on putting our lives back together now that we've finally purchased our new home/land. Time. Trust building. Time. Trust building. TIME. We've been fighting the good fight always - just a little more behind the scenes than usual.
_________________________________________________

This sounds to me like maybe there was a temporary break-up of Sarah and Jen back in Oregon before the move.

If it's true. Many of her perceived problems could be exagerations or embellishment or simply DRAMA, CHAOS.

She does not seem emotionally stable, IMO. Was she always like this? Seems to be spiraling out of control.

 

[everybodhi]

It's possible they were just hobby gardeners. Or that they had another plot.

How long had they lived in WA? I don’t think a year, yet.
When I moved to CA, it was fall and I prepared my garden for the following spring, building the raised beds, buying soil. It’s expensive, especially good, organic soil and nutrients, natural pesticides. It took me awhile to get it going.
The second year was much better than the first, and every year is an improvement.
It looks like they were just getting started on a new, nice sized spring garden.
IMO

 

[everybodhi]

From Jen's FB post above:

What do we need? What we need is loving understanding that there is a lot going on, and that we are working on putting our lives back together now that we've finally purchased our new home/land. Time. Trust building. Time. Trust building. TIME. We've been fighting the good fight always - just a little more behind the scenes than usual.
_________________________________________________

This sounds to me like maybe there was a temporary break-up of Sarah and Jen back in Oregon before the move.

If it's true. Many of her perceived problems could be exagerations or embellishment or simply DRAMA, CHAOS.

She does not seem emotionally stable, IMO. Was she always like this? Seems to be spiraling out of control.

The “trust building” stood out to me, as I am in couples therapy with my partner and it’s a term the therapist uses a lot.
We sometimes use the term now, too, but that term is new to our lexicon.
We picked it up from therapy.

 

[Gardenista]

I was just reading that and wondering who had cancer and what govt or an insurance company discrimination over a totaled car (especially if rear-ended) would have to do with leading to homelessness?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't believe a word of it. She's a known liar

 

[enelram]

Nothing new found in search on Wednesday. New cell phone discovered has not been analyzed yet, don't know if
it belonged to Harts.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8187408-181/large-search-underway-for-missing?sba=AAS

 

[rosemadderlake]

Actually I'm the OP and I abridged the conversation because this is a web crime community not an adoption forum, so I didn't go into detail. I said to a woman who was buying a lot of natural hair product (which I LOVE using on my kid's hair) Ours ran out and I can't get more cause it was home made by a salon and the salon is out of business I said, "I have a black daughter, do you like that hair product because I'm trying to find a new product for her hair." The woman responded "what grade is her hair?" I answered "4B which is thick and curly. The woman then responded, "your child is black?" and I said "Yes, she is," and then the woman turned around with her friend, took her bag from the clerk at the check out and left without answering the question. She didn't huff, but she didn't say anymore to me either...when I was kind and just asked a question about the product.

But it wasn't the only time we've experienced that. A woman yelled at me to "get my hands off my kid" when I was holding her hand crossing the street, "I said it was okay, I was her mom" and she yelled back "you will never be."

A clerk at Target asked whose baby was my stroller, was it my foster baby? I said, "no she's my daughter," The woman responded, "you people shouldn't be allowed to raise MY baby" the baby was not hers, she was the clerk at Target. I was my daughter's adoptive mother. I picked up my daughter (nine months a the time) and walked out, leaving all my stuff still in the cart.

So remarks from the Black community happen, however it was my black social worker and friend who got me the services I needed to help my daughter and she was the one I reached out to first to get some help...it was a very hard call, but I'm glad I made it. It was my black friend who found the beautician who is helping me with my tenderheaded kid's hair, but she's raising a white son so she gets it..

I think being a lesbian couple raising black kids may have caused more stress for this already tenuous and stressed out family.

Oh my, Musemoon. Thank you for sharing your experiences. And kudos for walking out of Target with your baby in tow.

I want to say it's not so much about racism as it is about tribe?

As a teen in the 60's, I grew up in a very, I don't want to say progressive because that is a recent definition, but a town with established multi racial and ethnic communities.

Let's put it this way, when I walked down the street arm in arm with my genuine friends, the judgement was rendered like lazar beams, crossing some line in the sand.

I felt fear, and loyalty at the same time. To provide some context interracial marriage was still illegal in many states back then.

Today, I live in a mixed neighborhood, most peaceful neighborhood I've ever lived in, and my neighbors came to me one day and said we are providing an address for our grand niece so she can attend a certain public school. I said no problem.

I've always felt that tribes are so powerful and one must be invited. Maybe that's my old school ways, but where it feels natural is when I get a "you must come over" for our celebration, and some awesome food, too! Same with church... (Choir girl wafting incense meets gospel joy)

Fast forward 40 or 50 years, a couple or few generations later, and your recollections, Musemoon, sound very familiar. And what you are navigating is not easy. Really, it's a first in many ways. And your reaching out makes all the difference because it's the personal ties and relationships that give strength and truth.

And Bbm: there is a mourning in the tribes, too. If this woman annihilated her family, she also annihilated her stewardship of her purpose of providing for what she perceived as underprivileged. It is a setback of perception.

How will every mixed family explain it? Especially since Devonte was beloved?

 

[sds71]

https://www.today.com/video/past-ab...n-suv-crash-1203208259683?cid=sm_npd_td_tw_maj
April 5th, 2018 Disturbing new details are emerging about the Hart family, five of whom died after their car plunged over a California cliff, a crash authorities believe was intentional. Past abuse allegations against the parents are coming to light as three other children remain missing. NBC’s Joe Fryer reports.

 

[Cryptic]

There was in a news article a few days ago a current photo of the raised vegetable beds in the garden at the Hart home. I didn't notice any crops ready-to-harvest; in fact, they all looked just like dirt. I tried zooming-in and saw perhaps a twig here or there. Did anyone else see this or remark on it?

It has been a cold spring and in a broad sense, it is too early for most gardens to have visible shoots. Of course there are exceptions depending on what is being planted and where.

 

[catedelia]

I wondered something similar when I saw the picture with Devonte and the juicer. Pure speculation though. We don't know what they were eating. It just seems like it wasn't enough or wasn't enough of the right things.

I read elsewhere that these children were not allowed sugar and had very little animal protein in their diet.

 

[Amonet]

I think there are now so many signs that point to family annihilation. I think it's most likely that would happen at a time when the whole family are together, not very likely that the missing three were dropped off somewhere.

Every day that goes past without the missing three finding a road and flagging down a car or finding a house and asking for food and the use of a phone...it's just starting to feel to me that all of them were in the vehicle and the ocean has taken the three kids who haven't yet been found.

 

[SATA]

I think there are now so many signs that point to family annihilation. I think it's most likely that would happen at a time when the whole family are together, not very likely that the missing three were dropped off somewhere.

Every day that goes past without the missing three finding a road and flagging down a car or finding a house and asking for food and the use of a phone...it's just starting to feel to me that all of them were in the vehicle and the ocean has taken the three kids who haven't yet been found.

Sadly yes.
I hope they find them, and that they find them soon.

There is an ongoing case here in Denmark where body parts were recovered from the bottom of the ocean with the help of amazing Swedish trained dogs - paired with calculations of ocean streams and divers of course.

 

[gcharlie]

Somehow, I missed this part of the 4/3/18 press release from Mendocino Sheriff. (BBM)
:

As of 04-03-2018 the search for the missing children (Hannah Hart, DeVonte Hart and Sierra Hart) is still ongoing.

As of this date it is still unclear if the missing children were inside the vehicle during the incident.

The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office is focused on search efforts as if they were inside the vehicle while the California Highway Patrol is focused on search efforts as if they were not inside the vehicle. At this point there in no obvious information to suggest either possibility.

 

[catedelia]

I found this copied post by Jen Hart on Facebook
Here’s an ominous message that Jen Hart wrote on her fb page last summer...after their ‘Hug Seen Around The World’ notoriety and challenges. This is a glimpse of their experience...

“I unplugged from Facebook for over half of this year. I've had to change my/our phone number(s) twice. I've steered clear of public settings for the most part. Rather than answering the floods of messages like: Where have you been? Why haven't you responded to my texts? Etc - I'll try and address SOME of the things that led to the disconnect.

This. Year. Slammed. Us. Hard. It was as if we were continuously seeing this "Proceed No Further" sign showing up in a myriad of ways.

Extremely simplified explanation:
Loss of a friend
Loss of 5 animals(2 in the last month)
Serious stalking and threats of violence towards me and my family
Robbed/vandalism
Cancer
3 job transfers(Sarah)
Several other very challenging medical diagnosis
Surgery

Sarah: rear ended in a car accident. Totaled
Discrimination from the government & insurance companies - which nearly led to homelessness weeks before closing on our home. Yeah. This is still a thing that happens. Thanks to my wife for being a badass superhero along side of me to combat this bs.

*All of this while home hunting non stop for over a year.

*All of this during an already very terrifying time in this country (and Portland...holy ****)

*All of this while trying to be supportive and loving wife whilst raising 6 teenagers.

So, where have I(we) been?
SELF CARE, y'all. I've been taking care of myself and my family. Our safety, emotional and physical health are always the absolute most important things. Period. Releasing the expectations to show up here or elsewhere was vital in my own healing. I am no service to others if my tank is empty.

What do we need? What we need is loving understanding that there is a lot going on, and that we are working on putting our lives back together now that we've finally purchased our new home/land. Time. Trust building. Time. Trust building. TIME. We've been fighting the good fight always - just a little more behind the scenes than usual.

What we don't need:
-pity or sorrow for these struggles
-guilt trips for not meeting your expectations
-pressure of any kind.

We've embarked on an incredible new journey up on some beautiful land in Washington. After over 4 1/2 years in the PNW, we finally feel at HOME. We're looking forward to sharing it with everyone... when the time is right.

BigLove

Oh - and if you still have our old phone numbers, please don't text or call them anymore...unless you like really colorful language from strangers.”

- Jen Hart, June 2017

This reads like the textbook paranoia/persecution complex of someone with a Type B Cluster personality disorder or complex PTSD. Nothing is ever Jen's fault, she perceives external forces causing all of her problems, and she is deeply, deeply paranoid. These, IMO, are almost nothing but paranoid delusions.

The message is "push-pull." She loves her friends, misses her friends, she needs her friends, but no one should come help or see any of them at all. She doesn't want help. She claims that her wife and children's mental and physical health are the most important things to her, yet she wants to isolate her wife and children, eliminate contact with the outside world, and drive Sarah and the children to Jen for help -- help that it's clear Jen had no ability to give.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I read elsewhere that these children were not allowed sugar and had very little animal protein in their diet.

Where? While I do think these kids were undernourished I'd like to know where that is verified?

Kids need fat, not sugar. Kids need protein. Kids have boundless energy.

Wondering about their diet, too. Not saying vegan or vegetarian is bad, but kids need certain ingredients to grow strong.

None of these kids exhibited muscle strength. Muscle strength vs weight. And I mean natural. Is it because all of them were failure to thrive babies?

 

[otto]

She ran from an abusive situation (putting it mildly) and likely at a time that she felt so desperate that she would escape from a 2nd-story window and run for help from the nearest neighbor. She was reportedly covered in weeds from her run, per the DeKalbs.

~jmo~

Perhaps she was fleeing from sexual abuse.

 

[catedelia]

Where? While I do think these kids were undernourished I'd like to know where that is verified?

Kids need fat, not sugar. Kids need protein. Kids have boundless energy.

Wondering about their diet, too. Not saying vegan or vegetarian is bad, but kids need certain ingredients to grow strong.

None of these kids exhibited muscle strength. And I mean natural. Is it because all of them were failure to thrive babies?

The undernourishment is validated by photographic evidence alone. Six kids from two different mothers, and all look like they're being starved.

I'm new here, and don't know how to link stuff or know what I'm permitted to link. If you Google "Devonte Hart sugar diet," you'll find quotes from a neighbor re the children's diet.

 

[otto]

I'm not going to say they were absolutely malnourished, but they certainly appear painfully thin for 6 children of different parentage.

Not only do they appear abnormally thin, but why weren't the older ones driving, working, attending post-secondary education, and pursuing their own hopes and dreams?