CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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- Have they received donations for the children? Amount, source and frequency? Any trust / savings for the children? Have they ever been paid for any public appearance / participation in a conference/ TV or radio show..etc?
- Any member was being treated for cancer/ was a cancer survivor?
BTW: I like your post and its approach. You should consider a career in journalism : ) jmo

Is there proof of donation receipts from the money they raised for different charities?

Did Jen’s photography serve as a source of income?

Did they have savings or significant debt?

Did Sarah have any unexplained absences from work or appear to have any unusual bruises or injuries?


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To me, their teeth look great. We could nitpick on slight imperfections but I think, overall, they're pretty fantastic looking teeth. I live in an area in which dental care is almost nonexistent. Our state is constantly getting "picked on" for having either the worst, or one of the worst, teeth. (Many people in my state don't have dental insurance and, those that do, don't have great coverage. It's mostly down to once a year cleanings, fillings, and simply extractions.) I've seen my share of "bad" teeth and I'd take a mouth full of almost any of the Harts' kids.

With that being said, don't take my words as being defensive of the Hart mothers. It's possible that the kids just had good genetics for their teeth; the state of their teeth doesn't necessarily mean that they got good dental care.


Yes. And if the kids were on a restricted sugar diet, that would help. My father grew up in a very poor rural area in Europe. Dental care consisted of a guy who came through town every month or two and would extract a bad tooth with his special pliers. They brushed their teeth with wood ashes and salt. Everything they ate was food they grew or animals they raised and slaughtered. It was like Little House On the Prairie, what the Harts aspired to. They rarely had any sugar at all. Never saw a dentist until he enlisted in the US army, and his first cavity appeared at age 35. His teeth were straight and strong, like the Hart kids. His siblings also had beautiful teeth.

IMO JMO that their childhood diet have gone a long way in keeping the nice teeth that genes gave them.
 
Is there proof of donation receipts from the money they raised for different charities?

Did Jen’s photography serve as a source of income?

Did they have savings or significant debt?

Did Sarah have any unexplained absences from work or appear to have any unusual bruises or injuries?


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1) I've not seen anything about donating to charities, BUT I have seen several references to Devonte COLLECTING


money at the events (supposedly) for charities.

2) there is one photo I've seen of SH that appeared to have a large yellowish bruise on the right side of her face, from

her rt. eye down lower.
 
Yes, that is true for sure. Look at their FB. But I do not think it was a severing because of political views on the world. Whatever it was . Who knows.

Sarah was (IMO JMO MOO) separated from her family because THAT IS WHAT ABUSERS DO (and they may not even do it consciously).

I have seen this happen up close. The controlling woman dating a man with adult children. Picks fights with the adult children. They avoid family gatherings. If there is a visit, the woman complains incessantly for a week about everything the adult children did or said. He’s reluctant to make plans with adult kids because the penalty is a week of listening to her say mean things about his children. One of his children makes a retort and is banned from their home “You can see Bob any time you want to, but he’s not welcome HERE. You’ll have to meet him somewhere else and don’t expect me to drive you there, either.” She answered the phone and “took messages”.

Then when they stopped calling as frequently, she said “It’s terrible that his kids don’t even bother with him anymore. Looks like I’m the only one he can depend on. And they only wanted his money anyway.”

this is kind of tactic is insidious and very effective. It creates an “Us vs. Them” and makes it harder for the victim to leave the abuser.
 
I think if we’ve learned anything in this tragedy it’s that Facebook and social media pics rarely tell the true, full story. That’s not to say that Sarah’s mother wasn’t accepting, it’s just that like the rest of this case we really have no idea.


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I have no idea what her mother is really like, but her posts indicate a liberal.
 
The neighbor told state investigators that Devonte looked "distorted," and his frame was "tinier than his head," with small shoulders.

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I did a bit of researching on this problem, where the child doesn't grow properly, never reaches their pre-determined

height or size and the large head out of proportion to the body- seems it's generally caused by excess alcohol intake

by the mother during pregnancy. The quantity of alcohol, the frequency, and the developmental phase of the fetus

all play a role in how the physical or mental conditions of the baby/child are affected.

We had a friend of family affected by this and they never outgrew the problem. Alcohol, in any form, can really

cause permanent damage to a developing fetus.
 
1) I've not seen anything about donating to charities, BUT I have seen several references to Devonte COLLECTING


money at the events (supposedly) for charities.

2) there is one photo I've seen of SH that appeared to have a large yellowish bruise on the right side of her face, from

her rt. eye down lower.

This is not really proof, but there was a FB post with Devonte and a recipient of his donation, thanking him.
 
Look at all those layers of too-big clothes and the dark glasses and hats. These kids bodies are being concealed deliberately under the guise of costume. The lies, the lies, lying clothes..... There must have been evidence for severe physical abuse already if they had to be covered up like that.

Makes me ill.

That older kid might be having a problem with wisdom teeth, or damage from getting punched in the jaw.

All the people including adults are wearing long sleeves and or jackets. They are probably dressed in layers because it is cold out. And they are skinny. Clothes are going to hang on them. Not an excuse for the terrible things done to them.
 
We give our 9 year old Benadryl instead of Dramamine sometimes for road trips to treat her motion sickness. She gets sick on drives that last over 30 minutes. That may be why they took it.


I don't think the women gave the teens a lethal dosage of benadryl. I think they would throw up and be very ill, but would not die immediately.

I say that only because my friend/neighbor and her husband accidentally gave their 10 yr old way too much benadryl. Both the wife and the husband were giving their child his allergy meds, not realizing the other parent was doing so also. When they figured it out they rushed him to the emergency room and were told that it takes about 10 or 20 x the normal amount to make a child seriously ill.


I think the kids were given the benadryl to make them sleepy.

ETA:

Recently, Winnipeg paramedics had to rush a 16-year-old boy to hospital after he took 20 capsules or 500 milligrams of Benadryl.
"He was hallucinating, he was delusional," said the boy's mother, who did not want to be identified. "He was so out of control, to the point he had to be restrained."


"If you take too much or take it in combination with alcohol, it can depress the body too much, to the point you go into a coma and die,” said Sheri Fandrey from the AFM.
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mom-says-teen-nearly-died-from-allergy-medication-overdose-1.1503133
 
Histrionics it seems....Jen was reclusive to a degree except for the festivals.....did yo nitce teh neatness of house and yard and garden?? Im wondering some OCD disorder, the personality disorder, and/or bi polar??? obsessivness is shared in these 2 and i wonder if control goes with that IDK, but i know my house wuoldnt be that clean with 6 kids, it isnte with us 2 only! LOL

Here are the added lyrics to Nahko's Bridge over troubled waters

and if you call on me
ill come running like a coyote
cuz we're pillars indeed
A LIGHTHOUSE WHEN YOUR OUT TO SEA.(where he stuck his face in camera)
A BEacon when directions all I need
A COMPASS IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN

DRUNK ON THAT NECTAR, of ALL THAT YOU ARE TO ME....................

dont sound like a MOURNING song for the dead

he's a writer, is this a message
I just watched a Nahko video. He is all lithe with muscle and skin and bone. And these crowds appear to be largely white, eccentric and accepting yes, and mixed races to some extent, but largely white imho.

There is some interesting info out there about eyewitnesses being better able to describe a person of their own race. To really see nuances that others might miss.

In this age of rail thin models on the pages of magazines, were enough folks able to look and just see beautiful, smiling kids laughing and dancing in public and on Jen's social media?

The more I look into this histrionic type of personality, I think it fits Jen to a T and it extended to/manifested with her kids/relationship. In my humble and uneducated opinion.
 
I agree with some of what you say and had though the same....but they withdrew them fro public school AFTER JEN BEAT THE GIRL and left back and chest bruises.......uncalled for...and if duning her head under the water as well was true, then all you are saying is mute in this case
So I want to say upfront that IF the Harts knew of what I’m going to say, it seems more likely to me that they would use it to cover their tears than using it wholeheartedly for the best interests of the children.

1) many times kids “from hard places” are a bit behind socially, even developmentally. So the 10yo seems 6 or the 19yo seems 14. So it may be that kids weren’t dating, going to college, driving, etc simply because they weren’t ready yet.

2) many times kids “from hard places” need rules that seem odd to the average person. Their intimacy with others, their relationship with food, etc can all be skewed so rules keep them safe and keep healthy boundaries until the child shows they can follow normal patterns of behavior in their own.

3) many times, it is encouraged to parents of kids “from hard places” to keep their world small. Homeschooling, limited friendships, not doing certain activities all help kids develop healthy familiar relationships, keep anxiety lower, help minimize behaviors, etc.

4) there are studies that show family socialization to be what really shapes a person socially. You have healthy role models from your parents and older siblings. You teach younger siblings. You have your best friends often within a family. Of course, it’s not the ONLY socialization suggested. Normally, people would have people they did things with, hung around at least semi-regularly, could go to when they need help, etc. But generally, school type socialization isn’t “real world” nor the healthiest version.

5) discipline for kids from hard places looks different. Sometimes it may appear we are too lenient or making excuses. Sometimes people wonder why we put up with certain things. But many times, we are ultra consistent, have clearly drawn lines, and hope the child feels more secure with knowing the boundaries. And if those boundaries do bend, our child may not be able to understand that this was a special circumstance. So bedtime is at X every single night without fail. A kid may NEVER get a sofa. They may only be allowed to hug people with their last name. They must hold mama’s shirt tail in public. Whatever.

For an adoptive child, especially one born addicted to drugs, who had several homes, who experienced neglect and abuse, homeschooling, a small world, strange rules, strict (not harsh!) discipline, recognizing they are a little behind developmentally may be extra helpful.

I think my biggest thought regarding this is to encourage people to know that this is encouraged TO SOME DEGREE to adoptive families. Don’t jump to heavily on the idea that we are all hiding something if we are doing some/all of these things.

Again, maybe the Harts heard some of these things and ran with it. Or maybe they used them as excuses to go too far with it all. Or maybe they never did any research and were clueless on top of abusive.

I just wanted to share some things you might not know about.
 
Histrionics it seems....Jen was reclusive to a degree except for the festivals.....did yo nitce teh neatness of house and yard and garden?? Im wondering some OCD disorder, the personality disorder, and/or bi polar??? obsessivness is shared in these 2 and i wonder if control goes with that IDK, but i know my house wuoldnt be that clean with 6 kids, it isnte with us 2 only! LOL

Here are the added lyrics to Nahko's Bridge over troubled waters

and if you call on me
ill come running like a coyote
cuz we're pillars indeed
A LIGHTHOUSE WHEN YOUR OUT TO SEA.(where he stuck his face in camera)
A BEacon when directions all I need
A COMPASS IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN

DRUNK ON THAT NECTAR, of ALL THAT YOU ARE TO ME....................

dont sound like a MOURNING song for the dead

he's a writer, is this a message

I did notice the extremely clean house. And stumbled on the histrionic stuff because I'm finding that it is a well known, but not well studied, phenomenon that OCD type of personality may be drawn to histrionic types. I'm familiar with the NPD/BPD as a toxic pair.
Apparently it is seen in other cluster C/ cluster B personality pairings . These personalities can be opposite and complimentary, but the excitement can wear off and if one or the other is more disordered or pathological it can be a recipe for disaster.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...9CPAQFggnMAE&usg=AOvVaw0jm0w6pR1Mz7Mj7bh_ruRm

I'm confused about your Nahko reference.... this is a new line or verse he added to that song?
 
Either they photo-shopped their teeth in many of the pictures, or those kids saw a dentist somehow, I believe. It really, really looks like at least 4 of them had braces. Maybe their dentist is a friend of theirs who refuses to come forward?


One does not have to have braces to have beautiful straight teeth. Many people are born with it. It looks to me from the pictures that those with the straight teeth have naturally wide palates that are simply wide enough to fit all their teeth without crowding.
 
They are too skinny. They are underfed. That's the problem. Markis' face isn't normal, but he's still too young (in that photo) for issues with wisdom teeth, even impacted wisdom teeth, and punches or other trauma would not present so symmetrically. The bilateral swelling at the angle of the jaw is consistent with a milder form of cherubism. No physician would let that pass uninvestigated.

Edit Along the lines of earlier observations, metabolic issues (some resulting from abnormal food intake or lack of nutrition) could be the cause : "Bilateral involvement suggests a metabolic aetiology (such as diabetes, sarcoidosis, anorexia, bulimia or Sjogren's syndrome) or an infective cause, including mumps, cytomegalovirus and HIV." https://www.gponline.com/basics-assessing-parotid-swellings/endocrine/article/984024
 
One does not have to have braces to have beautiful straight teeth. Many people are born with it. It looks to me from the pictures that those with the straight teeth have naturally wide palates that are simply wide enough to fit all their teeth without crowding.

Indeed, neither my sister nor myself had braces. Perfectly straight teeth. Mine had a gap in the middle at 7 but they pushed together perfectly.
 
I think it's valid to consider ways in which the abuse would possibly fly under the radar.
 
In the blackberry picture, does anyone else think it looks like Sierra's clavicle has been broken? Her right side doesn't look like a regular clavicle.

i noticed that, too, along with the prominence of bones at the sternum. Too me it looked possible there had been some attempt to photoshop out just how prominent the chest bone protrusion was... Smoothing with the clone tool might produce that effect. If it is natural or the realty of trauma I could not say, but it was very noticeable.
 
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