Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[ldlager]

I have a difficult time imagining someone murdering another person by strangulation and then carefully and intentionally staging their own suicide to make it appear the two of them died by hanging from a low mounted railing, the deaths occurring through some sort of morbid but loving togetherness plot. Regardless of how many times that I consider that possibility, imo it’s still way too farfetched.

At the beginning, a murder/suicide theory seemed remotely possible if HSs cause of death had been different than that of her husbands.

I believe KW has previously posted here that he believes a third party provided assistance to BS in this act, including potentially staging the scene. Not to put words in his mouth, but I believe that's how KW feels this may have played out.

 

[MistyWaters]

I believe KW has previously posted here that he believes a third party provided assistance to BS in this act, including potentially staging the scene. Not to put words in his mouth, but I believe that's how KW feels this may have played out.

As for that theory, yes it’s been mentioned. But a third party “providing assistance” whatsoever is still a crime, even more serious when helping to cause death. That’s murder. It wouldn’t even fall within the range of assisted suicide (which is also murder) because, by all reports, Barry had no serious health issues that would’ve resulted in imminent natural death. Countlesss defenses using the excuse “they asked to die” have failed because the only witness is already dead.

IMO it’s even more farfetched to imagine a husband murdering a wife, then calling up someone to help kill him, or stage bodies as a morbid duo to make it appear as if the two decided to die by suicide together, hanging from a pool railing. Who in their right mind would become involved in such a scenario? To me that verges on sheer craziness of not only the perpetrator but the “assistant” as well. It wouldn’t even wash in a book of pure fiction unless the conspirators were virtually insane - and we know Barry Sherman was definitely not.

JMO

 

[Kerry Winter]

I am going to try to decipher what you just said--please correct me if I'm wrong. You told Det. Price that you know that Honey was dead 6-9 hours before Barry died. You obviously had what you consider a credible source for that information, and you feel Det. Price's reaction confirmed what you stated as a true fact. Okay, but how does that delay between their deaths prove anything?

On an earlier post, you gave a <modsnip> scenario of phantom killers watching Netflix to pass the time after HS's death, and before they ostensibly killed BS. I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from. <modsnip> Even if it is true that Honey died 6-9 hours before Barry, how does that prove that he was the person who actually killed her? Obviously, I can imagine other scenarios.

How could the multiple killers be with my cousin for 6-9 hrs and not lay a finger on him. Remember, there wasn’t a cut, bruise, scratch, any defensive injury on Barry!

 

[Kerry Winter]

Sort of on that topic, I can’t help but wonder if “the friend” was also a police officer - snip from the Fifth Estate interview that I linked earlier, @ appx 20:35

.......“...Kerry Winter got a phone call he’ll never forget...from a friend. (KW) “He said oh they just found Barry and Honey’s body in the house and I just calmly said to him on the phone, I don’t believe it, he finally did it. I said he killed her....”

******
KW posted earlier that he was interviewed by CBC prior to the TPS press conference. In view of that, it’s highly possible KW condensed his version of the phonecall so that might explain his somewhat questionable recollect.

Otherwise, wouldn’t the first question be “what happened?” How could he know the deaths initially appeared to be a result of a murder/suicide based only on learning their the bodies were found in the house. Maybe the house had a gas leak, maybe both their bodies were ridden with bullets in a gangster style execution, or a violent robbery occurred and they were beaten to death???

The phone call came from my lawyer after receiving a call from a reporter at the Globe and Mail.

 

[Kerry Winter]

As for that theory, yes it’s been mentioned. But a third party “providing assistance” whatsoever is still a crime, even more serious when helping to cause death. That’s murder. It wouldn’t even fall within the range of assisted suicide (which is also murder) because, by all reports, Barry had no serious health issues that would’ve resulted in imminent natural death. Countlesss defenses using the excuse “they asked to die” have failed because the only witness is already dead.

IMO it’s even more farfetched to imagine a husband murdering a wife, then calling up someone to help kill him, or stage bodies as a morbid duo to make it appear as if the two decided to die by suicide together, hanging from a pool railing. Who in their right mind would become involved in such a scenario? To me that verges on sheer craziness of not only the perpetrator but the “assistant” as well. It wouldn’t even wash in a book of pure fiction unless the conspirators were virtually insane - and we know Barry Sherman was definitely not.

JMO

You’re so sure Barry wasn’t losing his mind. Less than 6 months before their deaths l sat across from him during an examination. The 1st thing l said to my lawyer as we were leaving was, “ he’s lost his ^}~<>_ mind!!!!”

 

[Kerry Winter]

You can imagine other scenarios? I can't, not without using a lot of fiction anyway. Bottom line, if there was a 6-9 hour difference in their TODs, it certainly does bolster the argument that Barry killed her and spent the night deciding what he was going to do and staging the scene. There would have been no logical reason for assailants to wait that length of time between killings.

Thx Andreww!

 

[PaulR]

You’re so sure Barry wasn’t losing his mind. Less than 6 months before their deaths l sat across from him during an examination. The 1st thing l said to my lawyer as we were leaving was, “ he’s lost his ^}~<>_ mind!!!!”

What was the second thing you said?

 

[MistyWaters]

You’re so sure Barry wasn’t losing his mind. Less than 6 months before their deaths l sat across from him during an examination. The 1st thing l said to my lawyer as we were leaving was, “ he’s lost his ^}~<>_ mind!!!!”

Hostility, animosity, resentment...all typical emotions shared between plaintiffs and defendants involved in bitter civil suits I’d imagine. Barry may have had much the same thoughts as you!

 

[human]

You’re so sure Barry wasn’t losing his mind. Less than 6 months before their deaths l sat across from him during an examination. The 1st thing l said to my lawyer as we were leaving was, “ he’s lost his ^}~<>_ mind!!!!”

Did anyone where he works mention that Barry was losong his mind?

 

[JDG]

How could the multiple killers be with my cousin for 6-9 hrs and not lay a finger on him. Remember, there wasn’t a cut, bruise, scratch, any defensive injury on Barry!

Kerry, I'm just curious. How do you 'know' what injuries were sustained or not by Barry?

 

[deugirtni]

You can imagine other scenarios? I can't, not without using a lot of fiction anyway. Bottom line, if there was a 6-9 hour difference in their TODs, it certainly does bolster the argument that Barry killed her and spent the night deciding what he was going to do and staging the scene. There would have been no logical reason for assailants to wait that length of time between killings.

First, that there was a 6-9 hour difference in their TODs is something stated only by KW and completely unsubstantiated. Second, who is to say what time BS arrived home after HS? Nobody has said he did or didn't go straight home, or what time for sure he left his office, etc. That alone could explain any difference in TODs.

 

[deugirtni]

Did anyone where he works mention that Barry was losong his mind?

Or any other family members, friends?

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
Mourners pay tribute to Canadian billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman
"Apotex Vice-Chairman Jack Kay recalled spending long hours working side-by-side with Barry Sherman, becoming good friends over the course of more than 30 years in business together.

“(Barry) was a teddy bear in real life, with the mind of a steel trap and the stubbornness of a bull,” Kay said. “We would tell each other that we would live to 120 … which he later amended to 150 as in his words, ‘ there was too much to be done.”

 

[JDG]

First, that there was a 6-9 hour difference in their TODs is something stated only by KW and completely unsubstantiated. Second, who is to say what time BS arrived home after HS? Nobody has said he did or didn't go straight home, or what time for sure he left his office, etc. That alone could explain any difference in TODs.

Do we even know that Honey got home first? What if she went shopping at Yorkdale Mall or grabbed a bite to eat, met a friend for coffee etc after leaving Apotex??

If we know this, I apologize. Just can't read back all of the threads. lol

 

[hudunit]

I am sure if Honey had supper or coffee with someone after leaving Apotex,the police would know because the person would come forward.

 

[JDG]

I am sure if Honey had supper or coffee with someone after leaving Apotex,the police would know because the person would come forward.

But WE on WS would not know and that's my point.
Maybe I should have emphasized 'WE' on the first post.

All WE know is COD from the authorities.

Everything else is 'sourced'. So WE really know nothing.
And, it will be like that until there is a trial I suppose.

 

[Kerry Winter]

What was the second thing you said?

When Barry sat down beside Kay, (his lawyer), he turned to her and asked, “why am l here?”
She replied, “now Barry, thst’s your cousin Kerry.”

 

[1&2&3]

Detective B. Price’s reaction when told re. 6-9 hrs time of Honey’s death to Barry’s gave it away. He’s not a very good poker player. Looked as if to say, “how the hell could he know that”.
Don’t need further confirmation. BTW: that’s exactly how my 4 hour interrogation/Q+A went with Price.

Is this a new piece of information and am I reading it correctly?
“ Detective B. Price’s reaction when told re. 6-9 hrs time of Honey’s death to Barry’s gave it away. “

It is being said that there was 6-9 hours between Honey’s murder and Barry’s? This puts a different light on the whole scenario doesn’t it?

 

[deugirtni]

When Barry sat down beside Kay, (his lawyer), he turned to her and asked, “why am l here?”
She replied, “now Barry, thst’s your cousin Kerry.”

I really doubt if he didn't recognize you, if that is what is being implied. When he said, 'why am I here?', it likely meant.. 'why am I here, wasting my time on this yet again????'.. that would certainly be my interpretation. jmo.

 

[ldlager]

Is this a new piece of information and am I reading it correctly?
“ Detective B. Price’s reaction when told re. 6-9 hrs time of Honey’s death to Barry’s gave it away. “

It is being said that there was 6-9 hours between Honey’s murder and Barry’s? This puts a different light on the whole scenario doesn’t it?

I doubt very much that after about 48 hrs after death LE could verify and certify a 6 to 9 hr TOD difference between the 2 bodies. Decomposition of both bodies would have been well advanced, especially in a probably damp pool area. Rigor m would likely have been fully reversed by then in both bodies, and both bodies would show full hypostastis, or blood having settled in the lower extremities. Entomology would help somewhat, but a 6 hr difference seems to me to me to be a stretch to verify.