PA - Grand Jury Report, Sexual abuse of over 1,000 children by over 300 Catholic priests

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To be fair, this kind of sexual abuse happens in other religions in the US. All churches, including non-denominational ones, need to clean house.

True, but not on the scale of the Catholic church.

This is simply due to the difference in organization. Protestant churches, both non denominational and denominational (say, Southern Baptist) are not hierarchial. Rather, each church is totally independent.

Thus, sex criminals cannot be transferred from church to church. They can, however, be allowed to resign in "good standing" where they are free to re-apply somewhere else. Even still, cover ups are still smaller in scale.

Another contributing factor is that Protestant churches are governed locally. As a church board personally knows the victims, they are less likely to tolerate sex abuse. As the criminal can't be transferred, he is fired. That does not mean that all protestant churches have informed the police, and there could be more than a few "quiet resignations". But cover ups are still smaller.

The only churches that have the hierarchical ability to transfer sex criminals maybe be Mormon (even here, I don't know if Mormon bishops truly have the authority to transfer ministers. Each church may do its own hiring) and Orthodox churches.

Each national Orthodox church, however, Russian, Greek, etc. or subgroup is independent giving a bishop more limited transfer ability. Likewise, I have a vague belief that Orthodox churches might traditionaly allow local parishes more say in selecting priests. Thus, Saint Sofia's parish might be able to say that they are not looking for a new priest right now and refuse a transfer for any motive.

This is not to say that Orthodox churches have always informed the police, that there have been no criminals transferred, or criminal allowed to quietly go "in active", but such things are simply smaller in scale.
 
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Respectfully snipped.

This is simply due to the difference in organization. Protestant churches, both non denominational and denominational (say, Southern Baptist) are not hierarchial. Rather, each church is totally independent.

In both the Methodist, and to an extent, some Lutheran and the Episcopal Church have a more hierarchical structure and can assign clergy.


Another contributing factor is that Protestant churches are governed locally. As a church board personally knows the victims, they are less likely to tolerate sex abuse. As the criminal can't be transferred, he is fired. That does not mean that all protestant churches have informed the police, and there could be more than a few "quiet resignations". But cover ups are still smaller.

I think that local governance is much more of a factor. In the Episcopal Church, it is possible for the diocese convention to cut off funds for things that the bishop wants (though not necessarily his salary). Within the last 15 years that happened in the Episcopal Diocese in Philadelphia.

My understanding is that the there is no local check on a Catholic Bishop.
 
Respectfully snipped.
In both the Methodist, and to an extent, some Lutheran and the Episcopal Church have a more hierarchical structure and can assign clergy.

I don’t think Methodist Bishops can truly assign / transfer clergy.

Rather, I think local Methodist Bishop “certifies” (the term used was more theological) ministers as being eligible to serve in the diocese. Each local Methodist church, however, seems to retain authority to hire their own clergy- but they must have been "certified" by the Bishop.

Thus, a Methodist Bishop can tell a local church who they cannot hire by not certifying a particular minister, but also cannot order clergy transfers.
My understanding is that the there is no local check on a Catholic Bishop.
Yes, that is true. Each Catholic Bishop or Cardinal is like the absolute monarch of a kingdom. His orders or policies are not subject to local review. Policies and orders, can, however, be reviewed by the Vatican- but they rarely get involved regardless of the matter. When they do get involved, the process takes years and over riding a local bishop is extremely rare.
 
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I checked the United Methodist Church's Book of Disipline, basically their rule book. The bishops do assign clergy; they call it the "itinerant system." I don't see the local congregation having a veto.

(p. 272, [286 digital])

Book of Discipline 2016 and Book of Resolution 2016 (free editions)

I know several pastors, four I think, that were moved from one church in particular over an 18 year period. Only one was controversial.

I didn't want to say "monarchy," but except for being answerable to the Pope, they are; they are pretty much like the prince-bishops of old.
 
I checked the United Methodist Church's Book of Disipline, basically their rule book. The bishops do assign clergy; they call it the "itinerant system." I don't see the local congregation having a veto.

(p. 272, [286 digital])

Book of Discipline 2016 and Book of Resolution 2016 (free editions)

I know several pastors, four I think, that were moved from one church in particular over an 18 year period. Only one was controversial.

I didn't want to say "monarchy," but except for being answerable to the Pope, they are; they are pretty much like the prince-bishops of old.

Thanks for the good research. It looks like I confused the "Bishop can refuse certification, but can not assign ministers" concept with another main stream Protestant denomination.

As for prince bishops going hay wire with regards to sex criminals, I think it is interesting to note that the cover up campaigns were launched by both liberal and conservative bishops. Cardinal Law of Boston was seen by some as a stuffy traditionalist with authoritarian tendencies. Meanwhile, Cardinal Roger "Rogelio" Mahoney was extremely progressive and advocated a lot of leftwing social programs. Yet both prince bishops refused to take action against criminals in their kingdoms.
 
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My father was a Presbyterian minister, so I'm somewhat familiar with their structure. I'm now Episcopalian, so I'm passingly familiar with their process.

In the Methodist Church, there would certainly be complaints to the bishop, and the "Elder," the technical title for Methodist clergy, would be removed, at least temporarily, by the bishop. Apparently, there is some process that he has to go through to remove the person permanently. So, at some point, he would have to have to answer to a number of others to remove and reassign. It is almost as if the pastor has a term of office.

You point though is valid. There is no check on the bishop at the local level in the Catholic Church.
 
As Pope Visits Ireland, Scars of Sex Abuse ‘Worse Than the I.R.A.’

"If any place illustrates the depth and depravity of child sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church — and why the Irish are so angry about it — it is this unlikely corner of the country, where among rolling hills of wild heather, castles and bucolic fishing villages, predatory priests terrorized children with impunity for decades."

******
Heartbreaking. CNN had a segment on the abuse in Ireland. A male victim described being raped for years by the priest, including with a crucifix. His life was destroyed. moo
 
New cardinal: Abuse victims should be ‘ashamed’ to speak due to their own failings

New cardinal: Abuse victims should be ‘ashamed’ to speak due to their own failings

MEXICO, August 21, 2018, (LifeSiteNews) – Reacting to the recent avalanche of reports of clerical sexual abuse around the world, a newly minted Mexican Cardinal has suggested that victims who accuse priests should be “ashamed” because they too have skeletons in their own closets.

Those who “accuse men of the Church should [be careful] because they have long tails that are easily stepped on,” said Cardinal Sergio Obeso Rivera according to a report in Crux.
.....


Is that what the confessional box is for? Blackmail
 
New cardinal: Abuse victims should be ‘ashamed’ to speak due to their own failings

New cardinal: Abuse victims should be ‘ashamed’ to speak due to their own failings

MEXICO, August 21, 2018, (LifeSiteNews) – Reacting to the recent avalanche of reports of clerical sexual abuse around the world, a newly minted Mexican Cardinal has suggested that victims who accuse priests should be “ashamed” because they too have skeletons in their own closets.

Those who “accuse men of the Church should [be careful] because they have long tails that are easily stepped on,” said Cardinal Sergio Obeso Rivera according to a report in Crux.
.....


Is that what the confessional box is for? Blackmail

What an outrageous statement.
Hope this Cardinal is 'humiliated +++ by media'.
Surely trials AROUND the world, have sufficient evidence, to verify these accounts.
 
New cardinal: Abuse victims should be ‘ashamed’ to speak due to their own failings

New cardinal: Abuse victims should be ‘ashamed’ to speak due to their own failings

MEXICO, August 21, 2018, (LifeSiteNews) – Reacting to the recent avalanche of reports of clerical sexual abuse around the world, a newly minted Mexican Cardinal has suggested that victims who accuse priests should be “ashamed” because they too have skeletons in their own closets.

Those who “accuse men of the Church should [be careful] because they have long tails that are easily stepped on,” said Cardinal Sergio Obeso Rivera according to a report in Crux.
.....


Is that what the confessional box is for? Blackmail

Damn. It really never ends...
 
Former Vatican official claims Pope Francis knew of abusive ex-cardinal, calls for his resignation

Former Vatican official claims Pope Francis knew of abusive ex-cardinal, calls for his resignation

Vigano made the claims in a lengthy statement that concludes with a call for Francis' resignation: "In this extremely dramatic moment for the universal Church, he must acknowledge his mistakes and, in keeping with the proclaimed principle of zero tolerance, Pope Francis must be the first to set a good example to Cardinals and Bishops who covered up McCarrick's abuses and resign along with all of them," he writes.
 
The Pope wrote: "A fasting that can make us hunger and thirst for justice and impel us to walk in the truth, supporting all the judicial measures that may be necessary."

I hope he means it.

Archbishop Alleges Pope Francis Knew of Cardinal's Abuse for Years Without Acting
"Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, a former Vatican diplomat in Washington, alleges in a letter published Sunday that Pope Francis knew about the sexual abuse committed by a top American clergyman years before he was publicly disgraced."

I believe the following.
Prayers without accountability are a discredit to our Lord
 
The Catholic Church has been vilified in Ireland after 9,000 reported cases of child abuse by priests and Francis met survivors during his first day in Dublin, during which he reportedly compared the corruption to human excrement.

And at Mass at Phoenix Park in the afternoon, the Pope requested a "pardon" for their crimes.

Pope in Ireland: Francis faces call to resign over abuse cover-up claim
 
The Catholic Church has been vilified in Ireland after 9,000 reported cases of child abuse by priests and Francis met survivors during his first day in Dublin, during which he reportedly compared the corruption to human excrement.

And at Mass at Phoenix Park in the afternoon, the Pope requested a "pardon" for their crimes.

Pope in Ireland: Francis faces call to resign over abuse cover-up claim

He didn't ask for a "pardon" in a legal sense. This was the quote, from the article cited:


"We ask forgiveness for the abuses in Ireland, abuses of power, of conscience, and sexual abuses perpetrated by members with roles of responsibility in the Church," he said.

"In a special way, we ask pardon for all the abuses committed in various types of institutions run by males or female religious, and by other members of the Church, and we ask for forgiveness for those cases of exploitation through manual work that so many young women and men were subjected to.

"We ask forgiveness."

Francis just admitted guilt on behalf of the Catholic Church. It took the Church more than 350 years to admit that they were wrong to condemn Galileo for saying that the Earth orbits the Sun. For the Church, this is the speed of light.
 
Ex-Nuncio Accuses Pope Francis of Failing to Act on McCarrick’s Abuse

Ex-Nuncio Accuses Pope Francis of Failing to Act on McCarrick’s Abuse
Of course he knows.

I agree, he knew. What is equally telling is that an archbishop is publically criticizing the Pope and calling for his resignation. In the past, no clergy ever publically criticized the Pope and resignation was out of the questions as olde school monarchs reigned until death.

Francis just admitted guilt on behalf of the Catholic Church. It took the Church more than 350 years to admit that they were wrong to condemn Galileo for saying that the Earth orbits the Sun.
Galileo's story is more complicated than that.

The church defended the scriputure using math. Galileo's math, was of course, correct. In fairness to the defending Cardinal's math, the math involved was complex enough and the error's small enough, that the vast majority of people even today can probably not completely understand the math, let alone find the errors.

Anyways.... Galileo left with no direct hinderance of his beliefs. "G", however, was brilliant and had a love of satire. He wrote a book portraying the defending Cardinal(s)as donkeys or retarded people etc. On other occasions he recreated the argument while mimicking people whom today would be identified as mentally disabled as being the Cardinal. ("G" lived in the days before PC).

The Cardinals were not PC either, and cared little about the disabled aspect. Rather, publically mocking powerful people in that century could get one killed. Thus, "G" was forced to recant.

You can see by this list of priest scientists that it includes a lot of astronomers. My guess is that not all their discoveries of beliefs coincided with Scripture either. Yet, no action was taken against them. List of Catholic clergy scientists - Wikipedia
 
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