NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[sony12]

Well is it safe to say now that nothing came of their digs? Looks like it has been almost two months since that stuff started being talked about on here.

 

[sony12]

I don't normally listen to the Missing Maura Murray podcast anylonger but I did listen to this one because they had Maura's supervisor on.

Nothing about the night she disappeared but it does confirm what we all suspected that Maura was having extreme mental/emotional issues in the days prior to her disappearing. To the point that when the supervisor heard that she got in a wreck up there in the white mountains she said she initially thought that she had gone up there to kill herself.

 

[Chad_York]

The soil tests aren't going to give any information without a certainty that a body was indeed buried underneath the concrete slab on one of the interested properties.

Time, Money, and Effort need to be exhausted through resources that are credible - excluding the A-Frame. We need to consider the cabins around the area, ski resorts in the area, or inquiring about lodging reservations. Someone knows something but it's a matter of figuring out who.

 

[sony12]

The soil tests aren't going to give any information without a certainty that a body was indeed buried underneath the concrete slab on one of the interested properties.

Time, Money, and Effort need to be exhausted through resources that are credible - excluding the A-Frame. We need to consider the cabins around the area, ski resorts in the area, or inquiring about lodging reservations. Someone knows something but it's a matter of figuring out who.

Ok after I heard about using the money for the second time I just had to shut the video off. For the RF property authorities basically ruled out the area all the way back in 2009 yet these people are still taking donated money from listeners and followers and searching it anyway???? And then the A-Frame house is all but ruled out as well but they still talk about using donated money to continue to search the house.

Please for anybody who reads this from now on do not donate any money to Maggie Freleng or the guys who run this particular podcast. They in no way have any clue what they are doing.

 

[Tarik]

Good, the more people are waking up to what this podcast has become, the better. I stopped listening over a year ago and I explained why in a YouTube comment.

 

[Falcon500]

Good, the more people are waking up to what this podcast has become, the better. I stopped listening over a year ago and I explained why in a YouTube comment.

Why?

 

[sony12]

Why?

There is nothing wrong with having opinion channels. Infact that is what youtube is for is so regular joe's have an avenue to voice their opinion. However the Missing Maura Murray podcast has become more than just an opinion channel as they are actively trying to take part in the case even though they have no credibility to do such a thing. It still wouldn't be a big deal if they were strictly using their own money to do so. But they are trying to get people to donate money to them so they can go on these wild goose chases of theirs.

 

[Tarik]

I would have nothing against them exploring leads if those leads hadn't been thoroughly explored ad nauseum in the past but when they have been and they didn't pan out, asking for people to give them money so they can rehash old leads over and over again that were debunked years ago by law enforcement casts doubt over their credibility, their intentions and what the money they get is used towards. Not to mention them changing their minds all the time and inviting shaddy characters to take part in the podcast and their "work". I worked on missing person cases, never made a penny out of it and never will because to me it's not about money. I was also very disappointed with the way they treated John Smith after all he did for them. They are not detectives, homicide investigators or police officers, they shouldn't act like they are.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I would have nothing against them exploring leads if those leads hadn't been thoroughly explored ad nauseum in the past but when they have been and they didn't pan out, asking for people to give them money so they can rehash old leads over and over again that were debunked years ago by law enforcement casts doubt over their credibility, their intentions and what the money they get is used towards. Not to mention them changing their minds all the time and inviting shaddy characters to take part in the podcast and their "work". I worked on missing person cases, never made a penny out of it and never will because to me it's not about money. I was also very disappointed with the way they treated John Smith after all he did for them. They are not detectives, homicide investigators or police officers, they shouldn't act like they are.

I am just curious, are you the investigative journalist who was on Tim and Lance's podcast re: Brianna Maitland?

 

[Pettibon Junction]

I would have nothing against them exploring leads if those leads hadn't been thoroughly explored ad nauseum in the past but when they have been and they didn't pan out, asking for people to give them money so they can rehash old leads over and over again that were debunked years ago by law enforcement casts doubt over their credibility, their intentions and what the money they get is used towards. Not to mention them changing their minds all the time and inviting shaddy characters to take part in the podcast and their "work". I worked on missing person cases, never made a penny out of it and never will because to me it's not about money. I was also very disappointed with the way they treated John Smith after all he did for them. They are not detectives, homicide investigators or police officers, they shouldn't act like they are.

They're trying to bleed a stone at this point. There's no new information, no new leads that are public, and they're not exactly insiders so they have to generate content to keep their podcast going. They've done so many filler episodes it's ridiculous.

 

[sony12]

They aren't any different than a lot of other youtubers now in that they are dishing out material strictly to get clicks. Some youtubers strive to quit their day jobs and do youtube full time and in order to do that they need to drive up their subs and get a portion of those subs to help support the channel. Easiest way to do that is to make attention seeking videos with attention seeking headlines that will attract the attention of those clicks.

As far as Maggie Freleng goes she is a young person trying to build a career for herself and I believe she has latched on to this case as a bit of a springboard.

 

[Tarik]

While I do understand your point, I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one and defend them for a second by saying that I haven't really noticed them making attention seeking videos with attenting seeking headlines but if you have then by all means let us know. I may not be the best person to judge their work in depth since I stopped paying attention a while ago.

 

[sony12]

While I do understand your point, I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one and defend them for a second by saying that I haven't really noticed them making attention seeking videos with attenting seeking headlines but if you have then by all means let us know. I may not be the best person to judge their work in depth since I stopped paying attention a while ago.

Just the fact that they continuously try to create news when there is no valid news to talk about. Them making videos about outlandish theories about people who were living all the way on the other side of the country at the time potentially being the one to kill Maura. Things like that. And also, like has already been stated, continuously rolling with things that have been officially debunked for years now.

 

[Tarik]

While some of these things could be described as attention seeking, I like to think most of their audience are able to see pass that and detect their BS. Then again, maybe I'm naive.

 

[sony12]

While some of these things could be described as attention seeking, I like to think most of their audience are able to see pass that and detect their BS. Then again, maybe I'm naive.

Except for that is not how youtube communities generally work. No matter how 'out there' a youtuber may be the people that take part in their community are most often individuals that agree with their opinion. Those that don't think much of the youtubers point of view usually just ignore the channel.

Also another thing is that those that are big into participating in youtube communities often aren't people that wish to have heavy discussions/debates over certain topics like posters do on forums. They more times than not are just people that like to see a point of view and then react to it. So the MMM channel is perfect for those types of people because it provides a lot of gossip and theories that they can react to.

 

[RachB65]

No offense but that is jumping to conclusions a little bit. Maybe people should stop trying to run the guys name through the mud until some actual evidence comes forward that actually indicts him of being the villain that people are accusing him of being (without any real evidence). All people are basing things off of now is nothing more than 'heard from a person who heard from another person that this person might be involved in something bad'

In regards to your previous post I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a chance that she was assaulted. However sometimes people are a little too quick to come to that conclusion. If you look at Maura's history she really did have a lot of reasons to want to get away from her life at that time. She got herself into trouble at one school and left there shortly after. She was going through a lot of personal life problems when the disappearance did happen. She had drinking issues that was causing her to wreck vehicles. We can't say for certain what her relationship with her dad was like but chances are from what she had done lately that he wasn't being real nice to her at that time. Her mom was dying of cancer. She seemed to be having trouble with her bf also.

There really is probably just as good of chance (if not better chance) that she was trying to get away from her life than it is that she was abducted by someone on that snowy road

BBM
Just rejoining this thread after being away a few years....
I wanted to say that predators usually choose victims who are distracted,unaware of their surroundings or seem vulnerable and/or lost in themselves..Much easier to surprise, grab and kidnap.

 

[SeekingJana]

I do think though one of the reasons Fred is a 100% going with this idea that she was taken by a local dirtbag is that he is trying to protect his family and the image of Maura. We know now that Maura was quite a bit more shady than the original reports of the case stated. If it was widely known what she was really like people would begin looking into her lifestyle (which could potentially bring out some dark stuff) and would also make people question the individuals that were in Maura's life all that much more.

I snipped the part out about " personalities" trying to profit in some way from this unsolved missing person case.

What you've said about MM not being a truly upstanding young nursing student hits kind of hard. I've just now read that she had unopened bottles of liquor in her car, bottles she put in her car- to drink while driving or what? I don't know.
I wonder if she had a serious alcohol abuse problem..

There's one thing no one really brings up. If she had a drinking problem and was not doing well in school, then she was NOT going to become a registered nurse, period.

I'm almost certain they were going to flunk the girl and she had to know it.

So, I agree with those who've said she was leaving college behind. She'd burned almost every bridge from what I have read.. Friends mad over missing money, dad ticked off about his car, the entire dysfunction that was her life.

If a person's running away from one thing, they're going towards something else, it stands to reason. Whether deliberately going on a course of action or aimlessly wandering, they are still propelling themselves because they are running away from something they believe is worse than the unknown in front of them.

Is it possible that Maura traded some or all of the liquor she had for a ride with someone? Maybe not in the middle of the night, but after walking/ running for most of the night, if she didn't succumb to hypothermia, would she have attempted to hitch a ride after daybreak the next AM and bartered with whatever booze it was she had in her backpack that wasn't opened yet?

I don't think she had money, from what I've read, but she apparently did have something of value to some people- the bottles of some type or types of spirits. ( I don't know what, specifically).
Of course, I think it's a foolhardy thing to do to offer booze to a person driving a vehicle who's also a stranger, but I think this girl lacked good judgment, period.

If she did hitch a ride, it's to parts unknown, right? I read in older threads that there was supposedly a BF or male pal with a plan to meet up somewhere else. Is that a credible theory now?

I don't think most WSers have any agenda of their own. We are supposed to be unbiased and consider all viable options in a missing persons case, because all manner of twists and turns can sometimes happen to those who get into the desperate situation Maura was in.
My belief is she's likely deceased, considering the long time she's been missing, but I hope not. Why was she on such an apparently desolate road instead of a major interstate highway? I've never even known that.

I realize she could have died in any location out in the open that first night, and there's also the possible added factor of alcohol intake which hastens hypothermia onset a great deal. But, if she didn't die of exposure to the elements, what is a viable theory of what happened to her? I keep reading how fast and far she could have run, but to where? What happened to her when she stopped running in the light of day, if she made it that far?

Thanks to any case experts who can get me up to speed on what's actually provable and what else is likely.

 

[Chad_York]

I snipped the part out about " personalities" trying to profit in some way from this unsolved missing person case.

What you've said about MM not being a truly upstanding young nursing student hits kind of hard. I've read that she had unopened bottles of liquor in her car, just purchased.
I've wondered for years if she had a serious alcohol abuse problem..

There's one thing no one really brings up. If she had a drinking problem and was not doing well in school, then she was NOT going to become a registered nurse, period. There's too much competition among students in good nursing programs. An average passing rate currently in most colleges is 60% in the last 2 years of study in the nursing program. In good colleges, they will deliberately crowd their classrooms because they know about half of their students are not going to make it to graduation..
As far as Maura, no college I know of in the US will allow an impaired student to progress through their course of study even if they have a perfect grade average ( which would likely be impossible for Maura as time progressed because of the days per week spent in hospitals with the instructors doing procedures, exams, giving medications, and starting IVs, all of which require sober minds, steady hands and clear vision). Much less allow one of their graduate nurses to wear their school pin, and sit for the NCLEX- RN exam on their recommendation after graduation.

What I'm saying is they were going to flunk the girl and she had to know it. Would any of us want an inebriated or high brand new nurse making a guess as to how much pain medication to give us after surgery? To try to determine why one of our O2 pulse oximeters were alarming when we are hospitalized with pneumonia and she's too hung over to see the tiny numbers on the oxygen flow meter well?

So, I agree with everyone who's said she was leaving college. She'd burned almost every bridge behind her from what I have read.. Friends mad over missing money, dad ticked off about his car, the entire dysfunction that was her life.

If a person's running away from one thing, they're going towards something else, it stands to reason. Whether deliberately going on a course of action or aimlessly wandering, they are still propelling themselves because they are running away from something they believe is worse than the unknown in front of them.

Is it possible that Maura traded some or all of the liquor she had for a ride with someone? Maybe not in the middle of the night, but after walking/ running for most of the night, if she didn't succumb to hypothermia, would she have attempted to hitch a ride after daybreak the next AM and bartered with whatever booze it was she had in her backpack that wasn't opened yet?

I don't think she had money, but she, by all accounts, did have something of value to some people- the bottles of some type or types of spirits. ( I don't know what, specifically).
Of course, I think it's a foolhardy thing to do to offer booze to a person driving a vehicle who's also a stranger, but I think this girl lacked good judgment, period.

If she did hitch a ride, it's to parts unknown, right? I read in older threads that there was supposedly a BF or male pal with a plan to go to Canada. Is that a credible theory now? A dude with a blog who basically painted her as a saint as a favor to her daddy ticked me off so badly that I've stayed away from her case for a very long time.

I don't think most WSers have any agenda of their own. We are supposed to be unbiased and consider all viable options in a missing persons case, because all manner of twists and turns can sometimes happen to those who get into the desperate situation Maura was in.

My belief is she's likely deceased, considering the long time she's been missing, but I hope not. If she got closer to Canada, was there a boyfriend waiting for her or driving to meet her? Or was that a myth? Why was she on such an apparently desolate road instead of a major interstate highway? I've never even known that.

I realize she could have died in any location out in the open that first night, and there's also the possible added factor of alcohol intake which hastens hypothermia onset a great deal. But, if she didn't die of exposure to the elements, what is a viable theory of what happened to her? I keep reading how fast and far she could have run, but to where? What happened to her when she stopped running in the light of day, if she made it that far?

Thanks to any case experts who can get me up to speed on what's actually provable and what else is likely.

Excellent post! Finally, someone who doesn't jump to wild conclusions and takes the case at face value. The leads are hard to find and any evidence is all but lost. The statement about us trying to be unbiased speaks volume as to wild speculative theories and accusations made without a shred of evidence. We're looking at this case entirely wrong. We need to take a step back, realize what the circumstances were for Maura. A nursing student who destroyed her own career by her reckless chocies.

 

[SeekingJana]

Excellent post! Finally, someone who doesn't jump to wild conclusions and takes the case at face value. The leads are hard to find and any evidence is all but lost. The statement about us trying to be unbiased speaks volume as to wild speculative theories and accusations made without a shred of evidence. We're looking at this case entirely wrong. We need to take a step back, realize what the circumstances were for Maura. A nursing student who destroyed her own career by her reckless chocies.

I did edit my post a bit so it didn't seem judgmental about such a young woman.. I want to be kind and fair to her family members who hold out hope that she's alive, OK?

However, the case facts as I know them do not really point to a living 35 year old Maura. They point to a girl running away in a really foolhardy way in the cold night on a mostly deserted country road... and having something cause a minor accident, which led to her making bad decisions in the middle of a fairly cool night.

The principle of Occam's Razor leads me to believe she likely perished on the night she disappeared. Contributing factors as I see them are: the combined effects of 2 car accidents close together, extreme mental stress to the point of near- disorientation and very bad judgment, open container of wine she'd been drinking while driving, a disabled car, and possibly the feeling that she was almost Superwoman. That she could outrun her problems by putting feet to flee. She couldn't, of course. No one could. Maybe she didn't know that drinking makes hypothermia set in faster and to a much worse degree, IDK.

Maybe she's up in Saskatchewan laughing at all of us who want her to be found, one way or another, but I don't believe she's alive. The odds are so much against it, and not because " those woods were full of human perverts" but because the girl just didn't have even halfway good decision- making skills the night in question. Possibly related to age, her drinking, or other factors like her fear of punishment for goofing up her car while drinking and driving.

I think there are so many factors which were working against her and all were either of her own making, or she made things worse with her bad choices to not get help, to try to run away, or maybe to try to hitchhike. IDK, but yes, I think we have to look at what we know happened that night and go off that alone.

IMO, the law of averages says she did NOT crash her car in front of a sexual predator's house. She may have chosen not to trust the man offering help because of her drinking, but because of him alone? I think her drinking was so out of control that her judgment couldn't tell a saint from a sinner that night, period.

Why was she not driving on a populated interstate highway? Fear of being stopped by police? If that's why, then was she already drunk when she started out on her trip? If she took back roads for another reason, what is it? Thanks.

 

[Chad_York]

I did edit my post a bit so it didn't seem judgmental about such a young woman.. I want to be kind and fair to her family members who hold out hope that she's alive, OK?

However, the case facts as I know them do not really point to a living 35 year old Maura. They point to a girl running away in a really foolhardy way in the cold night on a mostly deserted country road... and having something cause a minor accident, which led to her making bad decisions in the middle of a fairly cool night.

The principle of Occam's Razor leads me to believe she likely perished on the night she disappeared. Contributing factors as I see them are: the combined effects of 2 car accidents close together, extreme mental stress to the point of near- disorientation and very bad judgment, open container of wine she'd been drinking while driving, a disabled car, and possibly the feeling that she was almost Superwoman. That she could outrun her problems by putting feet to flee. She couldn't, of course. No one could. Maybe she didn't know that drinking makes hypothermia set in faster and to a much worse degree, IDK.

Maybe she's up in Saskatchewan laughing at all of us who want her to be found, one way or another, but I don't believe she's alive. The odds are so much against it, and not because " those woods were full of human perverts" but because the girl just didn't have even halfway good decision- making skills the night in question. Possibly related to age, her drinking, or other factors like her fear of punishment for goofing up her car while drinking and driving.

I think there are so many factors which were working against her and all were either of her own making, or she made things worse with her bad choices to not get help, to try to run away, or maybe to try to hitchhike. IDK, but yes, I think we have to look at what we know happened that night and go off that alone.

IMO, the law of averages says she did NOT crash her car in front of a sexual predator's house. She may have chosen not to trust the man offering help because of her drinking, but because of him alone? I think her drinking was so out of control that her judgment couldn't tell a saint from a sinner that night, period.

Why was she not driving on a populated interstate highway? Fear of being stopped by police? If that's why, then was she already drunk when she started out on her trip? If she took back roads for another reason, what is it? Thanks.

It's difficult to determine the circumstances behind her mysterious trip to the White Mountains. Her father mentioned the family vacations up in the near Bartlett, so she was familiar with the area. It's also important to note that she made an inquiry about lodging prior to leaving UMASS. When she withdrew the money from her savings account, it was only $280. Apart from her spending nearly $40 in liquor, we're unsure of what other expenses she may have made had that would determine how much she had left in her possession. That figure alone would give us an idea of how far she could have traveled. It doesn't necessarily prove anything but presents possible scenarios. However, the idea of her driving intoxicated seems unlikely. My reasoning is the roads up near the White Mountains involve winding roads with icy conditions. For her to drive from UMass to Wild Ammonoosuc Road in Haverhill, New Hampshire without crashing prior to the incident gives me the belief that she wasn't inebriated (STRICTLY MY OPINION). While it was unusual for her to travel through back roads, we can only speculate on the reasoning behind it. Her mindset might have been to clear her head and make time for herself. Did someone else other than Maura know where she was going? We simply don't know or it hasn't been disclosed. For her intention of running from the accident site was the fear of having police intervention. The fear of being caught with open alcohol containers would motivate someone to flee the scene. Maura needed to escape and could understand that waiting around for law-enforcement to arrive was not an option. Anything from there on out is only based on your opinions.

If her intention was not leave a trail behind, she surely failed at that. However, it's the reasoning behind it that she successfully accomplished in keeping secret. I'm still convinced someone within her circle of friends is keeping something important about her disappearance or maybe the police have more information than what they're saying. Who knows? For her to have escaped to Canada would have only worked if she was able to make it to the border the night of the accident or within a 24 hour period. Otherwise, her information would have sparked a red flag in someone's system. Maura was not stupid - she was highly intelligent and loved by many but something was seriously wrong with her mental state. The stresses of nursing school - her boyfriend issues, or the incident behind her catatonic state on that Thursday night at the security desk. Something was bothering her! To resort to alcohol wouldn't surprise me. I remember her older sister said she dealt with alcoholism. I don't believe she's amongst us anymore. We would have found her at some point or she would have returned from the shadows of her secret life. We could be wrong or right. Some day we will know the truth.