Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #39

[NuttMegg]

Coping over this post from the last thread, it's got me thinking.

CW says he went downstairs and there's a baby monitor downstairs that he saw things on....I thought earlier it was said that the baby monitor was on Shanann's side of the bed. So what is the significance of a downstairs monitor and him going downstairs and looking in it down there? What could that mean in this part-truths scenario?

And the other thing is CW saying he saw one of the girls 'blue' on the monitor.

Did Shanann look in the downstairs monitor when she came home? Is she the one who saw something on the monitor and shouted for him as she ran up the stairs to check on the girls?

I would think that if a parent looked on the monitor and saw something amiss with a child that they'd run to that child before checking the second child? Say she saw the child laying oddly and thought maybe she'd had a fit or an asthma attack, why assume something had also happened to the other child? And if the monitor is something where you change channels, then that's a question he needs to answer in his version where it's him checking the monitor and seeing her 'actively strangling' the second child? Why would you check the second channel if you'd already seen something scarily amiss with the first child? I'm not a parent so I don't know what most parents would do in that situation?

The other thing is the blue skin. Why would he say that? He saw the bodies when he was strangling them... he might have strangled them in the dark? He might have put the blankets over the bodies in a darkened room and carried them down to the truck covered up? Then he wouldn't have seen the blue or known the extent of it? I think this helps, because it's such a strange lie to tell to say he saw the child blue on a blue-screen monitor, especially when it's not usual for the body to turn completely blue as if you were looking at the child on a blue-screen monitor, and yet that's pretty much what he's describing. This doesn't feel like the precise explanation for it, but I think it's in the ballpark.

If Shanann is the one who saw something amiss on the downstairs monitor and rushed upstairs to the first child, if she got into the room and turned the light on and the child was dead she probably would have noticed a bluish tinge to the lips...it's something she'd know to look out for with two children with asthma, and she'd know it doesn't necessarily mean the child is dead but instead indicates lack of oxygen in the blood. So if she gets into that room to check on the first child who she saw in the monitor downstairs, she turns the light on and runs over to the child and looks, she sees the blueish lips and shouts, "her lips are blue, we need to call 911!" And CW turns this into seeing the child blue on the monitor. Which again could be in the ballpark for getting to a real explanation of that oddity in his confession.

Thoughts?

I was thinking he went downstairs, right by the kids' rooms, came back up right by kids' rooms, and crossed the loft to go to the master bedroom to see Bella on the monitor. I hadn't heard that it was a downstairs monitor, but I sure could have missed that. I think he went down to get garbage sacks to put them in, not wanting to drag the bodies or even carry them over the rugs. But it would fall into your overall theory of saying a few truish things and embellishing them with falsehoods.

 

[Kensie]

<modsnip>

I am a bit puzzled by some people who can believe that he killed them all and dumped his little girls in crude oil vats and was having an affair with a woman but just cannot accept that he had a same sex affair.

It is mind boggling.

 

[Mrspratcher]

@Mrspratcher
@gitana1
@Alethea
@Bill Carson

Where I live, it is not a one-party state. Is Colorado as to a one-party State to record something? I'm still trying to figure out why perhaps she is listed on the witness list as the deceased? And somebody else brought up thread that perhaps she recorded something.

Would the one-party/two party/mixed laws be thrown out the window if she recorded something and it was relevant to the prosecution?

Do you have any insight other than that why she is on the witness list?

ETA, my heart still goes out to those young girls that were murdered and the one video and audio the murderer perhaps

One party.

 

[Amonet]

I was thinking he went downstairs, right by the kids' rooms, came back up right by kids' rooms, and crossed the loft to go to the master bedroom to see Bella on the monitor. I hadn't heard that it was a downstairs monitor, but I sure could have missed that. I think he went down to get garbage sacks to put them in, not wanting to drag the bodies or even carry them over the rugs. But it would fall into your overall theory of saying a few truish things and embellishing them with falsehoods.

I wonder how many monitor screens are in the house? Would you expect there to be one upstairs and one downstairs, or to carry one screen downstairs in the morning and take it back upstairs at night? I guess they would have two? Which is a shame, because if there was only one he'd have to explain why the monitor screen was downstairs...

 

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip>
I am a bit puzzled by some people who can believe that he killed them all and dumped his little girls in crude oil vats and was having an affair with a woman but just cannot accept that he had a same sex affair.

For me its not that I'm not willing to accept it, I just want to be sure it's true before I explore how this may play into the whole thing. It makes a big difference to me. It would be more evidence pointing to his feelings of shame and not wanting his family to know, as is seen in cases of family annihilators. I was not referring to people that believe his story, I have not seen anything they have written, I was just talking about the specific story about the gay affair and the claim that the messages were not from CW. I only saw a few text messages and there was no way to determine who it was. Jmo

 

[PommyMommy]

Greeley Tribune, media coalition fight potential seal of autopsy reports in Christopher Watts triple homicide case
The Greeley Tribune submitted a motion Thursday contesting the potential seal of autopsy reports in the Christopher Watts triple murder case.

Joining The Tribune is a coalition of Colorado media outlets represented collectively by the Colorado Press Association and the Colorado Broadcasters Association. The Colorado Freedom of Information Coalition also joined the court action.

The motion, submitted at 3 p.m. in Weld District Court, argues a hearing within the context of a criminal proceeding is not an appropriate venue to determine whether or not the autopsy reports for Shanann Watts, 34, and her two daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, should be made public.

 

[NuttMegg]

I wonder how many monitor screens are in the house? Would you expect there to be one upstairs and one downstairs, or to carry one screen downstairs in the morning and take it back upstairs at night? I guess they would have two? Which is a shame, because if there was only one he'd have to explain why the monitor screen was downstairs...

Amonet, honestly, I don't have little kids, and it just never entered my mind that there were downstairs monitors too. Somehow I got it into my brain that he came up from downstairs, crossed the loft to the master bedroom, saw Bella blue on the monitor, then saw SW on the monitor "actively strangling" Cece, then ran across the loft to murder her. (His story, that is).

 

[Gardenista]

Greeley Tribune, media coalition fight potential seal of autopsy reports in Christopher Watts triple homicide case
The Greeley Tribune submitted a motion Thursday contesting the potential seal of autopsy reports in the Christopher Watts triple murder case.

Joining The Tribune is a coalition of Colorado media outlets represented collectively by the Colorado Press Association and the Colorado Broadcasters Association. The Colorado Freedom of Information Coalition also joined the court action.

The motion, submitted at 3 p.m. in Weld District Court, argues a hearing within the context of a criminal proceeding is not an appropriate venue to determine whether or not the autopsy reports for Shanann Watts, 34, and her two daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, should be made public.

I was hoping this would happen.

 

[rainynights]

Coping over this post from the last thread, it's got me thinking.

CW says he went downstairs and there's a baby monitor downstairs that he saw things on....I thought earlier it was said that the baby monitor was on Shanann's side of the bed. So what is the significance of a downstairs monitor and him going downstairs and looking in it down there? What could that mean in this part-truths scenario?

And the other thing is CW saying he saw one of the girls 'blue' on the monitor.

Did Shanann look in the downstairs monitor when she came home? Is she the one who saw something on the monitor and shouted for him as she ran up the stairs to check on the girls?

I would think that if a parent looked on the monitor and saw something amiss with a child that they'd run to that child before checking the second child? Say she saw the child laying oddly and thought maybe she'd had a fit or an asthma attack, why assume something had also happened to the other child? And if the monitor is something where you change channels, then that's a question he needs to answer in his version where it's him checking the monitor and seeing her 'actively strangling' the second child? Why would you check the second channel if you'd already seen something scarily amiss with the first child? I'm not a parent so I don't know what most parents would do in that situation?

The other thing is the blue skin. Why would he say that? He saw the bodies when he was strangling them... he might have strangled them in the dark? He might have put the blankets over the bodies in a darkened room and carried them down to the truck covered up? Then he wouldn't have seen the blue or known the extent of it? I think this helps, because it's such a strange lie to tell to say he saw the child blue on a blue-screen monitor, especially when it's not usual for the body to turn completely blue as if you were looking at the child on a blue-screen monitor, and yet that's pretty much what he's describing. This doesn't feel like the precise explanation for it, but I think it's in the ballpark.

If Shanann is the one who saw something amiss on the downstairs monitor and rushed upstairs to the first child, if she got into the room and turned the light on and the child was dead she probably would have noticed a bluish tinge to the lips...it's something she'd know to look out for with two children with asthma, and she'd know it doesn't necessarily mean the child is dead but instead indicates lack of oxygen in the blood. So if she gets into that room to check on the first child who she saw in the monitor downstairs, she turns the light on and runs over to the child and looks, she sees the blueish lips and shouts, "her lips are blue, we need to call 911!" And CW turns this into seeing the child blue on the monitor. Which again could be in the ballpark for getting to a real explanation of that oddity in his confession.

Thoughts?

You bring up really good points and questions. I want to specifically address the question around the baby monitor. Your post got me thinking about wording around the baby monitors, and after checking, I want to share what we know from the warrantless arrest affidavit.

Per the affidavit:
After being allowed to speak with his father, Chris stated after he told Shanann he wanted a separation he walked downstairs for a moment and then returned to his bedroom to speak with Shannon again. While in the bedroom, via baby monitor located on Shanann’s night stand, he observed Bella “sprawled” out on her bed and blue and Shannon actively strangling Celeste. Chris said he went into a rage and ultimately strangled Shanann to death.

From what I read, I believe it was the monitor located in the master bedroom upstairs. Jmo

 

[idfinch]

ETA: I believe that CW was still in a relationship with the AP at the time of the murders. In the warrantless arrest affidavit, it was discovered that CW was "actively involved in an affair with a co-worker." I'd think that if the AP dumped him, it would have been reported as "previously" or "recently involved." Jmo

I believe this too. I think they were going strong. And I’m surprised he felt like he could hide the affair from LE considering it was a co-worker. I’m not sure any attempt was made to hide it all that well.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the lies & shoddy coverup but it’s continually baffling to me.

ALL JMO

 

[evilgenuis1]

Just wondering, thinking out loud so to speak! In light of the probate hearing this week, if the couple had furniture and electronics, but they were financed and still owed money on them, what happens then? Where do creditors come in? This may have been discussed already, my apologies if it has! Also, will the sell of assets occur after a conviction, or how does that work?

 

[Amonet]

Amonet, honestly, I don't have little kids, and it just never entered my mind that there were downstairs monitors too. Somehow I got it into my brain that he came up from downstairs, crossed the loft to the master bedroom, saw Bella blue on the monitor, then saw SW on the monitor "actively strangling" Cece, then ran across the loft to murder her. (His story, that is).

Same here on all counts, Nuttmegg.... I think the affidavit did say a downstairs monitor, though, and that post I quoted really got me thinking about it in a different way and thinking that it would be great if we could all work together to brainstorm on it.

ETA Rainynights post above does clarify that the affidavit places the monitor screen in the master bedroom, not downstairs.

 

[NuttMegg]

Same here on all counts, Nuttmegg.... I think the affidavit did say a downstairs monitor, though, and that post I quoted really got me thinking about it in a different way and thinking that it would be great if we could all work together to brainstorm on it.

From the post just above, looks like the affidavit says he was looking at the monitor by the bed upstairs, after coming back up. (Story presented after talking to father privately).

 

[Tippy Lynn]

This sounds like there's a very good possibility the autopsy reports won't be sealed.

Zansberg can remember only one instance, the Columbine High School massacre, in which a judge ruled the release of autopsy reports would adversely affect the public.

"What the judge ruled in that case, and as the appellate court affirmed, was that the release of the autopsy reports would result in unnecessary trauma on the entire community given the singularly unique circumstances of Columbine," Zansberg said. "Although the district attorney's arguments are interesting, I have a hard time believing Judge Kopcow, or any judge, will find them sufficient to prove extraordinary injury to the public interest."

Greeley Tribune, media coalition fight potential seal of autopsy reports in Christopher Watts triple homicide case

 

[rainynights]

I believe this too. I think they were going strong. And I’m surprised he felt like he could hide the affair from LE considering it was a co-worker. I’m not sure any attempt was made to hide it all that well.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the lies & shoddy coverup but it’s continually baffling to me.

ALL JMO

And that CW thought he could hide the bodies in that location considering it was his place of employment. It continues to baffle me each and every day. Jmo

 

[Thepoet]

How about this;

The change in CW's behavior (distant, according to SW) and the closing of his FB page are markers of when his planning began. Maybe not planning anything extreme yet, but planning changes. Sometime after they get home from NC, but before SW leaves for Arizona, something happens, or is said, which makes his plans become more extreme and sets them into motion. In turn he says something to her, while she is in Arizona which causes her to not feel well and perhaps be aprehensive. The delayed flight is the final trigger, because it eliminates three or more hours he had planned on, and he probably blamed her. Now horrible things begin to happen. I believe the girls were killed first, to punish SW when she arrived home.

I also believe there are triggers, if we look for them. The first trigger was his appearance and people being more attracted to him, increasing his confidence. The second trigger was the affair. The third trigger was, coincidentally, the third pregnancy. It countered the elation of his affair and made him feel trapped. The fourth trigger was something that was said,or happened, before SW went to Arizona (Maybe she told him they needed to discuss separation when she returned). The final trigger was the delayed flight. Each trigger moved things forward and led to the next trigger until the horrible, final outcome occurred.

I mostly wrote this to get things straight in my head. And I edited it a couple of times. I would appreciate any comments.

 

[Amandaaa]

This sounds like there's a very good possibility the autopsy reports won't be sealed.

Zansberg can remember only one instance, the Columbine High School massacre, in which a judge ruled the release of autopsy reports would adversely affect the public.

"What the judge ruled in that case, and as the appellate court affirmed, was that the release of the autopsy reports would result in unnecessary trauma on the entire community given the singularly unique circumstances of Columbine," Zansberg said. "Although the district attorney's arguments are interesting, I have a hard time believing Judge Kopcow, or any judge, will find them sufficient to prove extraordinary injury to the public interest."

Greeley Tribune, media coalition fight potential seal of autopsy reports in Christopher Watts triple homicide case

I agree. I would be surprised if they remained sealed - and even if the judge rules in favor of sealing, I would expect that ruling to be appealed (and likely overturned).

I guess we just wait and see...

 

[Amonet]

You bring up really good points and questions. I want to specifically address the question around the baby monitor. Your post got me thinking about wording around the baby monitors, and after checking, I want to share what we know from the warrantless arrest affidavit.

Per the affidavit:
After being allowed to speak with his father, Chris stated after he told Shanann he wanted a separation he walked downstairs for a moment and then returned to his bedroom to speak with Shannon again. While in the bedroom, via baby monitor located on Shanann’s night stand, he observed Bella “sprawled” out on her bed and blue and Shannon actively strangling Celeste. Chris said he went into a rage and ultimately strangled Shanann to death.

From what I read, I believe it was the monitor located in the master bedroom upstairs. Jmo

Thanks for double checking. Okay so in his story he looks at the monitor, and we're not sure if it was split-screen or multiple channels, but it sounds more like channels?

We still have the same problem of what you'd do if you saw one child sprawled out on the bed strangely. Would you run to that child's room or would you check the other child on the other channel first? If the former, surely this is further indication that CW is lying in his version of the story?

 

[NuttMegg]

Same here on all counts, Nuttmegg.... I think the affidavit did say a downstairs monitor, though, and that post I quoted really got me thinking about it in a different way and thinking that it would be great if we could all work together to brainstorm on it.

ETA Rainynights post above does clarify that the affidavit places the monitor screen in the master bedroom, not downstairs.

Since I think most of what he says are bald faced lies, I wonder what little bit of truth the monitors do represent. He wove them into the story of seeing Bella blue, etc, and then during his voluntary media appearances he referred to seeing the girls on the monitors just before going to work on Monday. IE mentioned the monitors twice, woven into the whole tale. I think others have mentioned this too, but there has to be "something" about the monitors. Maybe SW awoke to see HIM strangling the kids on the monitor by her side of the bed, ran over to try to stop him, he kills her, is tired after bagging them in trash bags, lays down to rest and sees the BAGS on the monitors. In some way, monitors are burned into his brain.

 

[Serena Angelique]

Coping over this post from the last thread, it's got me thinking.

CW says he went downstairs and there's a baby monitor downstairs that he saw things on....I thought earlier it was said that the baby monitor was on Shanann's side of the bed. So what is the significance of a downstairs monitor and him going downstairs and looking in it down there? What could that mean in this part-truths scenario?

And the other thing is CW saying he saw one of the girls 'blue' on the monitor.

Did Shanann look in the downstairs monitor when she came home? Is she the one who saw something on the monitor and shouted for him as she ran up the stairs to check on the girls?

I would think that if a parent looked on the monitor and saw something amiss with a child that they'd run to that child before checking the second child? Say she saw the child laying oddly and thought maybe she'd had a fit or an asthma attack, why assume something had also happened to the other child? And if the monitor is something where you change channels, then that's a question he needs to answer in his version where it's him checking the monitor and seeing her 'actively strangling' the second child? Why would you check the second channel if you'd already seen something scarily amiss with the first child? I'm not a parent so I don't know what most parents would do in that situation?

The other thing is the blue skin. Why would he say that? He saw the bodies when he was strangling them... he might have strangled them in the dark? He might have put the blankets over the bodies in a darkened room and carried them down to the truck covered up? Then he wouldn't have seen the blue or known the extent of it? I think this helps, because it's such a strange lie to tell to say he saw the child blue on a blue-screen monitor, especially when it's not usual for the body to turn completely blue as if you were looking at the child on a blue-screen monitor, and yet that's pretty much what he's describing. This doesn't feel like the precise explanation for it, but I think it's in the ballpark.

If Shanann is the one who saw something amiss on the downstairs monitor and rushed upstairs to the first child, if she got into the room and turned the light on and the child was dead she probably would have noticed a bluish tinge to the lips...it's something she'd know to look out for with two children with asthma, and she'd know it doesn't necessarily mean the child is dead but instead indicates lack of oxygen in the blood. So if she gets into that room to check on the first child who she saw in the monitor downstairs, she turns the light on and runs over to the child and looks, she sees the blueish lips and shouts, "her lips are blue, we need to call 911!" And CW turns this into seeing the child blue on the monitor. Which again could be in the ballpark for getting to a real explanation of that oddity in his confession.

Thoughts?

I think he said he saw Bella was “blue” because he’s an idiot, and he thought that sounded realistic. I don’t think he could see that in a baby monitor which looks bluish anyway. Certainly there would have been time to save CeCe had she gone suddenly blue though. The fact that he claimed that this happened in a moment has him busted as far as I’m concerned.

Also, both girls would have had to have been in the same bedroom were this version of events true, but they each had their own rooms. How did they end up sleeping in the same room, unless he had set it up the way as he was the one who put them to bed?

It is possible that after they were dead for a while they turned to what he thought was a bluish color but bodies don’t suddenly turn blue. The subtlety of color alone is negligible to detect in a baby monitor.