AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #3

[Jax49]

Stop the discussion about 1st amendment and community colleges. This discussion is not doing any service to the victims in this case. Thank you.

bbm

B U M P

 

[FlamingoLady]

I can't help but think of the Holly Bobo case. Didn't a witness actually see her being drug off into the woods behind her home? It still took forever to find her....Actually, not sure if they ever did....My point is maybe there was no getaway car at all. I know they used infrared, a dog etc...to search but she might just be far enough away or hidden just enough to not be found yet.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Yes, and that's exactly why I listened to that part of the presser enough times to get his full answer. After seeing the tweet my first thought was that if the sheriff believed "100%" that Jayme was alive it would imply they had evidence of it, and by that I mean, well, that she was somehow involved. His exact words:

Sheriff responded "100%... 100% we want to bring Jayme home and put that smile back in her family's hands."

He did not say LE knew 100% that she's alive. It was in answer to a reporter asking if the search was still about bringing home an alive Jayme (as opposed to a recovery effort).

The Sheriff did not say he knows 100% that Jayme is alive.

You can read his actual words in the excellent post above by MsMarple.

 

[Alethea]

Even if the media is barred from the Town Hall meeting, I think we'll know what was said soon enough. If there aren't local reporters attending in their capacity as citizens of the county, some other citizen will give the media a breakdown. In cases like this you can always find someone who will speak to reporters. Imo.

I am curious to hear the outcome. I can't tell if this is a meeting to glean information from the public or if its purpose is more along the lines of hand-holding for a traumatized community. Probably both, I guess. Jmo.

This is a little conspiracy theory for me but perhaps they are seeing who will come out and be eager to "report" to the media what happened in the town hall? LE is always looking for people who inject themselves into cases. Volunteering as a community or LE spokesperson to the media sounds like something someone who really wants to be involved in the case would do.

 

[BRRI]

That post/picture is from 2016. I doubt its relevant to what happened considering the time frame.

equity loan was in 2017 too... maybe more work done inside the house?

 

[Quill]

I was responding to your statement that rivers and creeks are considered ATV playgrounds where you live.

Understood. My point is simply that ATV's are literally All Terrain Vehicles and are made with traversing rugged and sometimes unstable ground not suitable for a regular vehicle in mind. I'm just thinking outside the box a bit in terms of how the perpetrator(s) *might* have made a getaway. I am also reading all the other informative posts from those familiar with the area about how quickly they could have gotten away and onto a main highway. I actually hope they were in a car on the highway because I think that would make better odds for being caught by some surveillance cameras somewhere.

 

[kkdj]

OHHHH, they had painters and roofers, etc coming to their home? Maybe one of the workers took a liking to the young girl?

This just might be it Katy! A hired hand that had worked at the Smart's home came back and took Elizabeth in the middle of the night.

 

[oakparkmall]

If police arrived within 4 minutes, I would hope they are looking at dashcams.. what are the odds they drove by him?

 

[Abba's Tears]

Does anyone remember a case where a perp wanted to kidnap and hold their victim for a long time (think of Jaycee) but didn’t just snatch them off the street? The whole killing the parents thing is throwing me off. That brings emotion and a reason into the mix.

This may have already been answered- I'm only up to this point in the thread. But Holly Bobo immediately comes to mind when thinking of a perpetrator who abducted their victim from the victim's own residence. I also believe that had Holly's brother confronted the perpetrator, his life may have been in jeopardy. In this case as many of you well know, Holly was taken to a house not far away from her own where she was raped, and eventually murdered. It took agonizing years for Holly's case to be solved and I pray that this case will be nothing like it.

 

[MesquiteO21]

the parents still being alive 30 minutes after being shot is unlikely

respectfully snipped and BBM

Could depend on where they were shot. some people die right away if the bullet hits a vital artery. Others may not if the wound is in a location which is ultimately life-threatening without medical attention but doesn't cease life immediately. i knew a girl who was murdered many years ago by being shot in the mid to lower back and the medical examiner estimated it took her about 15-20 minutes to die. the timing might also not actually be a full 30 minutes if, for example, the shots that the neighbors heard at 12:31 were the shots through the front door. then maybe J and D were shot in the home around 12:32, or 12:33, and the 911 call went through at 12:53, so only actually 20 minutes. i am leaning more towards the caller being Jayme until/if we get more information about the call, but i'm still keeping the possibility of it being J or D in my line of thinking.

 

[MsBetsy]

They are not going to ask the masses for DNA. Will not. I think the Sheriff is going with he thinks people will be afraid to talk with media present. He thinks they might mention something even minor if it's safe and informal.

I also would assume the community is gripped with fear, knowing two people, possibly three were murdered in their own homes in the middle of the night. They deserve to have the opportunity to ask questions, and this gives the sheriff the opportunity to answer them, tell people how they can help, and what safety precautions to take without the press hounding them. Jmo

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Just jumping off your post, Angleterre. I'm a little baffled why we're discussing a community college and first amendment rights at all. Two people were brutally murdered in this small community and a 13-year-old child is missing. The sheriff scheduled a town hall meeting for Barron residents to have a dialogue about how the community is coping and to provide victim assistance to family, friends and residents who are grieving and under tremendous stress. What is so nefarious here?

The Sheriff is concerned about his citizens and wants to address the community without a media circus. I don’t blame him. The school superintendent has been overwhelmed with requests for interviews and her staff has been bothered to the point that they’re having trouble doing their jobs and it’s affecting the students in the district. He also said that these distractions take away from the focus of the investigation which is to find Jayme.

A town hall meeting in this situation is not at all unusual. They are commonly held across the country after tragic events like the Parkland School shooting, for example. This community needs to grieve and pull together to get through this, and they need all the help they can get. This is not some game that law enforcement is playing with the media. MOO

 

[oviedo]

Sure, you can provide a sample voluntarily. LE may ask people who they interview to provide a sample voluntarily. Many people do agree and aim to eliminate themselves as a suspect immediately so LE can move on with their investigations. Plus many people who are on probation or are registered sex offenders may have a condition of their release that they agree to give a sample when asked and will allow warrantless searches of their homes.

Police are allowed to enter a residence under exigent circumstances. If there's reason to believe there's a risk of imminent harm or a crime is being committed. So if there's a 911 call, they can break down the door and enter without a warrant. After the emergency has passed, they would need either permission or a warrant to conduct a further search of things that were not in plain view. When there's an obvious crime scene, it's very easy to get a warrant. LE wants to make sure they follow all of the laws and guidance stemming from 4th amendment case law so they don't later jeopardize a prosecution. The last thing they want is to have evidence thrown out by a defense lawyer because it was collected improperly.

Thank you for that concise, easy to understand explanation! I’ve wondered about this search warrant thing for years - starting way back with Caley Anthony !

 

[Angleterre]

Right but this is the United States and we have 200 years of case law regarding our Bill of Rights that must be followed. Privacy and protection from state intrusion are founding principles in this country. When LE has any evidence that someone may be involved with a crime, it is easy to get a warrant to conduct a search. LE often asks people who are interviewed to voluntarily submit samples and they often do. LE can also use evidence from interviews to support their warrant for suspects who do not wish to cooperate.

But any type of mass collection is patently illegal. We have had recent Supreme Court cases striking down the mass collection of even metadata. Certainly any attempt at mass collection of DNA would be ruled unconstitutional. I do not think it is fair to characterize people who believe in and support their constitutional rights as somehow suspicious.

You misunderstand me when you say “I do not think it’s fair to characterise people who believe in and support their constitutional rights as somehow suspicious”.
I didn’t actually say that, and if I inferred that then I apologise but the point I make is that it’s human nature to ask yourself why if someone was to refuse a voluntary DNA if it was to help a case such as this and Jaymes life , and consequently taking this one step further, as LE , its natural to then check intelligence systems to ascertain what information is held on LE databases about any person who refuses as this may show that in fact Mr XYZ is a sex offender and his MO is strikingly similar and he’s been convicted in the past of Home invasion where females have been subjected to sexual assault etc and this is what gives you your leads when you have nothing else to pursue as a kind of enquiry. I don’t mean you go against your constitutional rights or that a person be characterised as you state but that’s the way investigations unfold and more often than not, working on gut feelings and looking at who isn’t cooperating, can often provide most fruitful leads .
Anyway I will leave it there because as you say , this is the USA we are alluding to and my expertise is the U.K. , albeit this forum is open to people across the world , voicing their ideas and opinions .
And THE MOST IMPORTANT thing here is what we all collectively want and wish for - to get Jayme home safe and to help her and her family and community to get justice and to pull through this terrible tragedy.
With respect always.

 

[Wish I Knew]

I've been following this case from the beginning, and not much to add other than I am from a small town about two hours north of here (Cable) and family still in that area...

These parts of rural, northern Wisconsin can be pretty remote - or very easy access to extremely remote - areas. These areas tend to be heavily forrested and often accessible only by foot, ATV, or sometimes boat. There are many who actually like the remote lifestyle...some even live off the grid.

It would be very easy to control and conceal a 13 year old :-(

I am most worried about this particular scenario....especially if this abduction was planned.

ETA - I also don't think there are as many homes there with security cameras as we might be used to seeing in city/suburban areas....but... maybe trail-cams!!!

 

[bears10]

One can not be present on our local college campuses without a student ID visible. I have had a kid fined because their jacket covered it.

You can’t have any visitors? Future students coming to meet with advisors or pay their tuition? Or a parent paying their child’s tuition? Maybe some CCs are smaller than I’m used to, bc I can’t see how that would be regulated in my local CCs. Especially since there are a bunch of adult Ed classes held at night that aren’t college related, and various support groups.

 

[msmamanana]

At this point, as to what we know, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that the killer/abductor was in anyway connected to that community. For all we know the person drove 500 miles because he saw her in the internet. There is no reason to ask locals for DNA and incur those expenses and time spent without more info.

 

[MKZoo]

This is a little conspiracy theory for me but perhaps they are seeing who will come out and be eager to "report" to the media what happened in the town hall? LE is always looking for people who inject themselves into cases. Volunteering as a community or LE spokesperson to the media sounds like something someone who really wants to be involved in the case would do.

Not too crazy of a conspiracy theory, imo. There was case where a young woman went missing and this guy who was an acquaintance/neighbor/worked in the apartment building kept giving interviews about the search. He was super dramatic when told on camera that she'd been found... and he was her killer. I can't recall the specifics, but I remember that because it was insane. I'm sure that LE pays a lot of attention to such things.

 

[Moonracer]

Interesting information, China Cat. Now....I wonder if they have looked into the painters and roofers. ( I immediately thought of Elizabeth Smart when I saw this.)

Yes, the Smart kidnapping - and remember the kidnapper went by foot to escape with E.

 

[Bluebythec]

Authorities said they have determined whose cell phone the call came from, but declined to identify the owner.
Jayme Closs disappearance: FBI asks for help in finding girl whose parents were killed - CNN

Hmm makes me wonder if perhaps it was the perp's cell phone? Maybe they dropped it in the chaos and someone was able to dial 911 surreptitiously?