AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

[Advocate4]

Not my top theories, but I agree this scenario is possible. I don't know what a child sold like this would be worth though. Europeans and Americans don't find Jayme's coloring so rare, but it is very rare worldwide. Didn't the Barbary pirates and Ottomon Turks used to kidnap blondes and redheads for their harems?

Don't know about the Barbary pirates or Ottoman Turks, but would not be surprised. As to monetary worth, try Googling about women auctioning their virginity and see what some people will pay. Mind-boggling!

and I hate speaking about Jayme's "monetary value" as if she's a thing instead of a precious young person, but that's the mindset of abductors, unfortunately.

 

[human]

This seems like an ideal investigation to use cell tower data to identify a potential suspect, but it would take time. That shouldn't be an issue when there is a missing child.

We think that, but there have been court cases re privacy. I forget what was said now I forget what google terms I used that finally came up with the data.

I posted on here and there seemed to be little interest in the topic so I forgot what the court cases specifically said.

I have a non positive feeling about what was said

 

[bizzle2]

11:30 to midnight is a short amount of time. Why would that exclude the earwitness testimony?

In an interview the sheriff was asked why the case hasn't been solved yet. He says that the person/people who did it were probably only in the house for around 4 minutes. Then went on to add the following:

"If I'm in your house for 25 minutes I'm bound to touch something, leave a fingerprint, DNA, shoeprint, whatever. If I'm only in your house one minute today, you know, I'm probably not going to leave much evidence. And so, that might be part of it."

We know that the 911 call came in at 12:53am. So if the neighbors are correct about the time of the shots then that means the perp was in the house for about 22 minutes. The sheriff's quote above pretty much says that isn't the case.

Below is a link to the interview. Start it at about 43:40 to hear that question and answer:
WATCH: Sheriff Fitzgerald Discusses Jayme Closs Investigation on DrydenWire Live! | Recent News | DrydenWire

 

[JRW]

They did not. There is a considerable distance between the houses plus a stand of trees between them, so I doubt that the could even see the Closs home from their house.

I remember hearing that they were a distance apart but I was curious if they had gone outside maybe they would have still been able to hear screaming or yelling or saw lights of some sort (headlights, flashlights etc.)

 

[bellyup]

We know that the 911 call came in at 12:53am. So if the neighbors are correct about the time of the shots then that means the perp was in the house for about 22 minutes. The sheriff's quote above pretty much says that isn't the case.

It does seem like the sheriff is saying they were only in the house for four minutes but I just can't believe it. It doesn't seem possible. The majority of the time, the simplest answer is the answer and 4 minutes to do this and vanish ... isn't simple (or maybe even possible!)

 

[bizzle2]

Why would LE have reason to doubt the accuracy of the time? They openly admit that they really very little information to go on, yet they have enough to say that the only witness they have is inaccurate? Something is not right here.

Well for starters eyewitness/earwitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

Other than that I don't know what specifically is making them doubt the timing. I just know that based on their statements it sounds like they don't believe that time to be correct. LE obviously knows more than we do about the case so I'm sure they have other reasons that they aren't sharing.

 

[SandyQLS]

.

 

[bizzle2]

It does seem like the sheriff is saying they were only in the house for four minutes but I just can't believe it. It doesn't seem possible. The majority of the time, the simplest answer is the answer and 4 minutes to do this and vanish ... isn't simple (or maybe even possible!)

It doesn't take long to shoot someone. Pretty small house so it's not like they had a ton of ground to cover. I don't see why they couldn't get it done in 4 minutes.

 

[bizzle2]

Yes, but how would LE know how long the perp was there?

I don't think they know exactly how long. They are just saying that it was probably only a few minutes because the perp left basically no evidence of being there behind.

I'm pretty sure they are thinking that the crime started right around when the 911 call was placed.

 

[SandyQLS]

I don't see any reason to doubt it. However, the police chief said on the radio interview that they were in the house fo an extremely short amount of time. In and out. For that to be true he'd have to be discounting the neighbours testimony. Though I don't see what exactly he could have that would allow him to come to that conclusion.

I do not understand thus insistence that the time given by the neighbors must be wrong or that the police are ignoring their account. So many seem to insist that the two shots heard must have been at the Closs home, either at the front door or inside. I don't get it. The two shots heard may or may not be related to the crime, and either way could have been at the home or elsewhere. In their interviews, I do not remember the neighbors indicating a direction for the sound.

 

[bellyup]

It doesn't take long to shoot someone. Pretty small house so it's not like they had a ton of ground to cover. I don't see why they couldn't get it done in 4 minutes.

We know there was a struggle. A 47 second 911 call. It's pretty likely that Denise or Jayme tried to fight or hide.

You're now down to 193 seconds (3.2 minutes) to kill two people and grab another and get away without a trace. It's a tight time frame that I am struggling with seeing as the most likely scenario.

MOO it's much more realistic to believe the neighbors reports 22 minutes before were the gunshots that likely killed Denise and James.

 

[andreww]

Timestamp on manually set devices, such as an alarm clock or CCTV footage, always has to be compared to factory default timestamps, such as cell phone and laptop. It's to be expected that there would be a few minutes discrepancy.

I see 30 minutes as a very short time to break into a house, murder two adults, abduct the child, and leave.

The only thing I have been able to come up with regarding LE's insistence that this was a quick crime would be the wounds Denise received. For instance, if she were shot in the heart, the coroner could give a good indication as to the maximum amount of time she could have survived with those injuries. So if the coroner says five minutes maximum, and she was alive to make the 911 call at 12:56, the neighbours must be mistaken.

So lets look at how they could be mistaken. The call was at 12:56, which would have been 1:03 by the neighbours clock. Lets look at the digits of times compared to the time they though they saw.

12:38 – 12:59
12:38 – 12:58
12:38 – 12:57
12:38 – 12:56
12:38 – 12:57
12:38 – 12:56

As you can see the bolded numbers could easily be misread, she mistook a 3 for a 5. Everything else would require the misreading of at least two digits. So lets say 12:58 was the actual time for arguments sake. With the seven minute adjustment, we are now putting the initial shot at 12:51. The sheriff said that the perp was in the house for a very short time, with this new timing, for as little as four minutes.

What say you all?

 

[Rubiconbob]

I would think 4 minutes is optimistically long. Would think less then 3. Perp starts with 2 loud gunshots in less then 30 seconds
911 call is likely known to perp if he can hear call back.. or see call back on phone..

Once he sees the call back or hears cell phone ring at 1 am he’s bolting with jayme.

911 needs a live text option. Doubt it woulda helped here...

My guess and only a guess. It took 3 minutes to get address dispatch... by that time perp was out of house and moving..

Don’t see killing 2 people with loud gun and then sticking around on top of thinking 911 call made..

Only thing that would cause a lag is jayme fighting back... tough for child to fight back
Against larger male with a gun..hope he’s caught soon.

 

[cluciano63]

It doesn't take long to shoot someone. Pretty small house so it's not like they had a ton of ground to cover. I don't see why they couldn't get it done in 4 minutes.

If true, i.e in and out in very little time, then it does seem very much like a specific plan with no surprises. Planned to kill parents, planned to take Jayme.

 

[cluciano63]

We know there was a struggle. A 47 second 911 call. It's pretty likely that Denise or Jayme tried to fight or hide.

You're now down to 193 seconds (3.2 minutes) to kill two people and grab another and get away without a trace. It's a tight time frame that I am struggling with seeing as the most likely scenario.

MOO it's much more realistic to believe the neighbors reports 22 minutes before were the gunshots that likely killed Denise and James.

But we don’t know that sounds were heard on the call that whole time, do we? Since LE said phone was not near a victim, that is had likely been kicked to tossed aside...it could have had only a voice for a second or two, if at all.

 

[bellyup]

So lets look at how they could be mistaken. The call was at 12:56, which would have been 1:03 by the neighbours clock. Lets look at the digits of times compared to the time they though they saw.

12:38 – 12:59
12:38 – 12:58
12:38 – 12:57
12:38 – 12:56
12:38 – 12:57
12:38 – 12:56

I could buy into this being the case but you, yourself stated it was 1:03 on the neighbors clock. So it seems less likely that she misconstrued the time.

 

[photographer4]

We know there was a struggle. A 47 second 911 call. It's pretty likely that Denise or Jayme tried to fight or hide.

You're now down to 193 seconds (3.2 minutes) to kill two people and grab another and get away without a trace. It's a tight time frame that I am struggling with seeing as the most likely scenario.

MOO it's much more realistic to believe the neighbors reports 22 minutes before were the gunshots that likely killed Denise and James.

So the 911 dispatch got the call at 12:58am. LE was there by 1:03 or 1:04 (I don’t have the log handy so humor me pls) but that’s more like a 6 minute time frame. From when the call was disconnected to when the cops arrived. That’s a lot of time to grab Jayme and escape.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I was just looking at an exterior shot of the Closs home . . . again . . . Notice the grass, to the right of the driveway . . . Doesn’t that look like tire marks? I’m wondering if someone drove up on the lawn to be closer to that front door the night of the murder.

If so, they also could have been made by LE . . . Have we talked about this previously on a thread?

I see one by the tree. That could very well be. IMO

 

[photographer4]

But we don’t know that sounds were heard on the call that whole time, do we? Since LE said phone was not near a victim, that is had likely been kicked to tossed aside...it could have had only a voice for a second or two, if at all.

Log says the dispatcher heard a lot of yelling. So it’s either the TV is on, someone screaming somewhere in pain or people yelling at each other. What we don’t know? How much time is yelling heard on the call? How much silence if any?

 

[andreww]

I could buy into this being the case but you, yourself stated it was 1:03 on the neighbors clock. So it seems less likely that she misconstrued the time.

No, 1:03 is the time of the 911 call by the neighbours clock.