AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[Bernard_Shakey]

Welcome Bernard Shakey



Welcome to WS I think you may find the following helpful in your quest for missing and endangered.

From

Guide for Implementing or Enhancing an Endangered Missing Advisory

• The person believed to be in danger because of age, health, mental or physical disability, and environment or weather conditions; is he or she in the company of a potentially dangerous person; or is there any other factor that may put the person in peril? ✦ Is there information that could assist the public in the safe recovery of the missing person?

I found it very interesting there may be an more up to date version somewhere.

MOO

Thanks MingyMoo, that was a really interesting read.

Funny that the Sherrif didn’t just explain EMAs when asked why he wouldn’t say ‘abducted’. And also they did eventually issue an Amber Alert.

I guess ‘abduction’ is used only when there is clear evidence of it having happened, like an eye witness or a ransom note.

The language interests me still.

 

[bizzle2]

When you are looking for a motive in a double homocide and kidnapping ; relationships, sex, drugs (including alcohol) and money are always your first suspects.

Casinos have at least two if not three of those things. Plus an added known criminal element.

That right there is reason to check the casino BY DEFAULT. You have rule out that he either won or owed people money. You have to check out there there was no suspicious activity from a possible perp there. If that wasn’t high on the list of things to check out near immediately, we have bigger issues than public relations.

It's not like the casino is right next door. Then they'd check it by default. The casino is 14 miles away. If there are no friends/family who say he ever went to the casino, no player card in his name at the casino, no bank transactions from his accounts at the casino, and no large cash withdrawals then there is no point in checking cameras inside the casino that entire day to see if he was there. It's a waste of time.

And there is no known criminal element in legitimate casinos in the midwest. They are heavily regulated, and don't let people play on credit. That is only the super high rollers in Vegas or Atlantic City.

 

[Maybelline]

According to the Dryden interview, Fitzgerald stated he didn't know if James had been at the casino or not. (as of Nov 9th) I still don't understand that statement because casino surveillance should have been able to determine that pretty quickly. I understand it's a reservation casino and we aren't talking Vegas level security but surely they have decent camera equipment and would have been able to determine if James was there or not.

I too would think they would have some type of security video and it’s not like they have the large numbers of people coming and going like Las Vegas either.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I don't like this at all. It's like playing games with words, I feel he is very uncomfortable with this question and he must have a reason why. If if they don't know for a fact that she wasn't abducted, they don't know if she WAS abducted? They say there's no digital footprint to indicate an online or older boyfriend, right? So, in my mind then, she was abducted. There is something they are withholding here because his logic doesn't make sense to me!

Of course they are withholding info. If LLE releases anything the killers would have it as well. Then they may know if they have accurate info and then they could make it much more difficult to locate them.

And honestly the Sheriff has no obligation whatsoever to release any more than what he has said to this point.

In other words Sheriff Fitzgerald can play on words. Perhaps it’s his way of coping with cases such as this one.

I’ll try to find a link to a well written police procedures manual.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

It's not like the casino is right next door. Then they'd check it by default. The casino is 14 miles away. If there are no friends/family who say he ever went to the casino, no player card in his name at the casino, no bank transactions from his accounts at the casino, and no large cash withdrawals then there is no point in checking cameras inside the casino that entire day to see if he was there. It's a waste of time.

And there is no known criminal element in legitimate casinos in the midwest. They are heavily regulated, and don't let people play on credit. That is only the super high rollers in Vegas or Atlantic City.

There is criminal activity in many casinos and Indian Casinos are mostly self regulated.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

With the casino I think he's saying he doesn't know because they had no reason to check there. It might just mean that none of his friends/family have mentioned that he goes there, and they have no evidence that he ever did, so they haven't checked. I mean, there is a Burger King 14 miles away in Rice Lake, why not ask if he was there? They probably wouldn't check if they had no reason to.

I get why the casino has come up -- because casino security was mentioned in the call log. But I'm of the opinion that it was either so they could check any security tapes that may have been facing the road, or because casino security is the tribal police and they were basically just checking in with a neighboring jurisdiction to make them aware of a serious crime that occurred nearby.

My guess is that he was at work and that was verified by his employer, so they hadn't checked the casino because they had no need to.

I doubt James would have come home from the Burger King with a Whopper of such delicious allure as to lead a robber to kick in a front door, kill two people and abduct a teen in -- all in pursuit of said delectable sandwich. Winnings from a big gambling night could be another story, though I admit I have little faith in the casino angle.

 

[bellyup]

It's not like the casino is right next door. Then they'd check it by default. The casino is 14 miles away. If there are no friends/family who say he ever went to the casino, no player card in his name at the casino, no bank transactions from his accounts at the casino, and no large cash withdrawals then there is no point in checking cameras inside the casino that entire day to see if he was there. It's a waste of time.

And there is no known criminal element in legitimate casinos in the midwest. They are heavily regulated, and don't let people play on credit. That is only the super high rollers in Vegas or Atlantic City.

I’ll reiterate ... there’s every reason to check the UNREGULATED Indian reservation casino that’s a 14 minute drive away from the crime scene.

They are known places for criminal activity. Including but not limited to possible trafficking.

Even if James was never known to have ever entered a casino in his life... there is 100% reason to check with the casino (including surveillance cams) to rule it in or out as possibly linked in any way.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Do you know if you need a permit for a portable scanner as well?

That's generally the type that requires a permit. The AC powered ones that sit on a desk are kind of impractical to have in a car. There are very many portable ones with thousands of channels and run on batteries and look like a hand-held two way radio right down to the display display with a frequency on it.

 

[bellyup]

I doubt James would have come home from the Burger King with a Whopper of such delicious allure as to lead a robber to kick in a front door, kill two people and abduct a teen in -- all in pursuit of said delectable sandwich. Winnings from a big gambling night could be another story, though I admit I have little faith in the casino angle.

I also don’t believe the casino was involved or has pertinent relevance. Possible, but not my theory.

My question is why Fitzgerald answered that he didn’t know if James was there or not. That should be a given that he should have absolutely known.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Cellphone tracking is an excellent way of tracking the movements of a suspect, once you have a suspect. I have never once heard of LE finding a suspect via his cellphone pings.

So, make history this time.

 

[Maybelline]

When you are looking for a motive in a double homocide and kidnapping ; relationships, sex, drugs (including alcohol) and money are always your first suspects.

Casinos have at least two if not three of those things. Plus an added known criminal element.

That right there is reason to check the casino BY DEFAULT. You have rule out that he either won or owed people money. You have to check out there there was no suspicious activity from a possible perp there. If that wasn’t high on the list of things to check out near immediately, we have bigger issues than public relations.

Amen!!!! I don’t think being 14 miles away would be considered all that far to drive either when you consider most everything is a distance for people who live rural. They are used to it. If he wasn’t there that night it could have been the day before. Check it out.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I think that if perhaps a shotgun was used, it is highly unlikely that a person could walk there, commit the crime, then leave with a shotgun and a 13 year old girl, likely in pyjamas, in tow without being seen.

ATV? Motorcycle? Golf cart? The point, Andreww, is that it appears that LE is convinced the perp left in a car. Consequently, it's a legit question to ask, as the person I originally responded to did, whether or not LE has evidence such as tire tracks, an oil leak, etc. regarding the perp's vehicle? N'est-ce pas?

 

[Maybelline]

A friend of mine has a daughter who works nights at a casino as a pastry chef and she has told my friend that there are always questionable people at the casino. This casino is a very nice one as well in a mid-sized town. She said there are a lot of fights both inside and outside and men following women to their cars, etc. not to say that decent people do not go to a casino but it really does attract a lot of scary people.

 

[bellyup]

Of course they are withholding info. If LLE releases anything the killers would have it as well. Then they may know if they have accurate info and then they could make it much more difficult to locate them.
And honestly the Sheriff has no obligation whatsoever to release any more than what he has said to this point.
In other words Sheriff Fitzgerald can play on words. Perhaps it’s his way of coping with cases such as this one.
I’ll try to find a link to a well written police procedures manual.

I agree that he has no obligation.
I agree that he can release nothing at all.
I also believe that choosing that route in this case, at this point is a foolish decision.

 

[Maybelline]

More casino opinions - sorry, but I just have to mention also that I know several people that totally hide the fact that they frequent casinos. They feel shamed by the fact. Some people just don’t tell everything that they do. Sometimes they tell family even less.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I agree that he has no obligation.
I agree that he can release nothing at all.
I also believe that choosing that route in this case, at this point is a foolish decision.

yeah, hows that working out for them?

 

[Rubiconbob]

<modsnip - off topic generalized discussion of LE>

Factoid:
Out of 54,868 homicides in 55 cities over the past decade, 50 percent did not result in an arrest.

Well, 50% were, 50% weren't solved. Over a decade. I don't like those odds.

Just look at our own WS cold cases!

I do think some crimes are unsolvable unless someone confesses or someone miraculously finds proof hidden in their home or writings. But 50%? Too high. Criminals are not that careful.

WHERE IS JAYME???

Source: Media, WaPo
Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/unsolved-homicide-database/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6b3dbc465414

I agree on a lot of that ... in fairness to Fitzgerald. He called FBI 3 hours into this...
didn’t do any good... but at least he was quick..

If it was a single perp who left no dna, no fingerprints, no shoe print, what would u think Fitzgerald could do... ??

I am hopeful he’s got suspect figured out and just building a case that might take 6 months to build... hard to see that.. but can hope... I guess.

What could cops possibly expect to come in as new tips ...?? Without new info to the public. Unless perp kills / abducts again .. don’t see it... maybe girlfriend snaps and turns in.

Moonracer... your in law enforcement...
Have u ever seen a case where they just release info to public quickly..?? Who makes the call... 4/10 yrs long enough. Now release more clues .... seriously seen cases 15 yrs old where they give ammo and additional details. After 15 yrs what the hell ... jaymes friends will be 30 ..perp could be dead.. who makes call on Closs 911 call/ ammo / etc... team/ book. Standard 2 to 5 yrs no matter what????

 

[Mercedes]

yeah, hows that working out for them?

Yes, Dr. Phil.

 

[galillian]

Here's another new article with some info:

Investigators conducting more interviews in Closs case

 

[Irmese]

But why? There was no robbery, just 2 murders and taking Jayme.

That's what every theory comes back to - motive. MOO, I think Jayme was the target all along, for sexual reasons. Maybe having her see her parents killed/dead was for the purpose of terrorizing and controlling her. There have been quite a few cases of male/female teams abducting females, helping to keep them and control them for their "man" to fulfill his fantasies.

Colleen Stan comes to mind. The difference is Colleen was an incidental victim. I think Jayme was targeted and maybe the reason they didn't take her when she was waiting on the bus is maybe they didn't know about the change in her arrangement, didn't know she was waiting on the bus alone, but maybe knew that she wasn't where he had seen her before with her aunt after school. All speculation, of course.

I think the whole purpose of waiting until late at night is he/they knew they would all be home. Most robbers prefer to break in when no one is home and never confront someone. It's hard to tell if their home would have been easy to burglarize during the day, but it doesn't make sense to me that he/they would break in to steal, which they didn't do. Maybe they thought there was a lot of cash in the house and couldn't get James or Denise to admit it. I don't think so, because nothing was rifled through.

The sheriff said the crime was pretty quick. But if the shots the neighbors heard at 12:31 killed James and or Denise or just got them in the door, and the call was a couple of minutes before 1:00 AM, the perp(s) had to be in the house about twenty minutes. And there's a big chunk of time between when Denise talked to her sister at about 10:00 PM and the time the shots supposedly happened that we don't know anything about.

I think the perp may have been watching Jayme, maybe creeping around the house at night. Maybe he has even broken in before as a practice run. But he couldn't devote himself to watching her full time. Maybe he has a regular job. And, if he has a female accomplice, she may be helping to keep Jayme prisoner and he is free to go to work and be out and about.

BTW, what happened when the dog searched? I have missed some things on these threads. I know the dog didn't find anything, but was he a cadaver dog?