CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

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I have seen a few posts that say the poster has heard PF's mother is allegedly disabled in some way or unwell. I have never seen a verified reference for this within these posts. Could someone please post the original reference regarding the health of PF's mother? Thanks in advance.

I understand we are not allowed to sleuth members of PF's family, and that is not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a verified reference to the information that is being posted on this forum regarding SF's alleged disability. Or has it just been assumed since PF is living with his mother on her ranchette that she has health problems and he is caring for her and then that unverified info has been copied by others?

No offense to anyone. Just trying to establish the truth.
 
I dragged my feet for years on upgrading technology, lol. I had a flip phone up until recently too.

When I said four spots I was referring to the space in front of KB's side of the duplex looked big enough for 4 cars. Her neighbor has some sort of large planter and has less space on that side. Her neighbor might only fit 2 cars (or 3 if one is turned the way that PF's truck was seen to be parked). It's possible PF parked that way all the time because neighbors did too but I'm not seeing examples of that kind of parking in the google earth photos.

Here is a mock up showing how many cars could fit normally using the neighbors car (left image is unedited, right side I simply copied and pasted the car):

So, both posters here that have commented that they didn’t get a smart phone recently, have also both said they are not good at technology. If you use that as the basis of speculation, PF likely didn’t manipulate that ping or the phone. If he did this, it was either a false ping (by fault of a glitch) or he was physically in Idaho.
 
Any theory that attempts to explain what happened to Kelsey has to account for the ping from her phone in Gooding ID. If this were a Hitchcock film that ping would be the plot twist that the entire story hinged on.

If that ping did not exist then it would be simpler to theorize reasons for her absence. But her phone appearing briefly 800 miles and 3 days after her last confirmed sighting creates a specific fact that needs to fit into any accurate theory. Not just fit in, but IMHO explaining that ping explains the entire story.

The ping from Gooding fits well with the early Facebook post from her Aunt that "She broke up with her ex on Thanksgiving, he said she dropped off the baby and was heading to Soap Lake Washington to visit.” Taken at face value that statement means it was PF who reported to her family that she was heading to Soap Lake. I believe that the Aunt later retracted or deleted that Facebook post.

Gooding is roughly 60% of the way between Woodland Park and Soap Lake. Gooding is a completely plausible location for her phone to ping if she was indeed traveling to Soap Lake. It is also a completely plausible location for her phone to ping if someone wants to create the illusion she was traveling to Soap Lake.

How can that ping be explained?

KB has phone (#1): Maybe Kelsey did indeed decide spontaneously to head to Washington without giving her family advance notice. PF's story about her leaving is basically true. Whatever the cause of her disappearance therefore is something unexpected that happens along the way. This theory raises a set of questions that are without answers:
  • Her known vehicles are accounted for so how is she traveling?
  • Why leave child her child behind?
  • Why doesn't she tell her family she is coming either at the onset of travel or when sending the two text messages?
KB has phone (#2): Maybe Kelsey was indeed heading west but not to Washington. She tells PF that Soap Lake is her destination to conceal some truth from him, perhaps even that she willingly wants to disappear. This has the same problems as the above theory plus creates a new mystery around her true intent.

PF has phone: Some here believe that PF must be behind KB's disappearance. An obvious extension of this belief is that PF must be responsible for creating the ping, likely as a red herring to distract from the truth. The question therefore is could he have transported her phone to Gooding and arrived back in Florissant while producing an alibi for his location and maintaining care for the child in his custody? Assuming no stops it is roughly 24 hours of round-trip driving from his home to Gooding and back. So questions that come from this theory are:
  • Could he have driven 1600 miles round-trip, pay cash along the way for any need gas or food, and not be remembered or be caught on video?
  • What alibi has he produced for his time from the 22nd to the 26th and who corroborates that alibi?
Other theories I consider less likely:

PF accomplice has phone: This suggests a conspiracy between PF and some other party to create this ping, wherein PF stays home and cares for his daughter while his accomplice (for motivation unknown) transports the phone to Gooding. But who then is this co-conspirator to what now seems a complex premeditated criminal conspiracy?

A robo-phone: Several other posters here have theorized various scenarios of apps that send time-delayed texts, ways of turning on a phone remotely, shipping the phone in a package, putting the phone on a west-bound truck, etc. These all seem like very implausible Rube Goldberg solutions to me, which involve many possible risks that the message would not be sent at all. If creating a ping from Southern Idaho was critical to someone attempting to conceal the truth then taking the phone there personally or using an accomplice seem far more reliable.

All five of the above theories imply either that Kelsey told PF she was heading to Soap Lake or that PF invented the story that Kelsey was heading to Soap Lake. There is, however, another possibility.

An abductor has her phone (and possibly KB): PF may indeed have received a message stating that Kelsey was heading to Soap Lake, but it was sent by an abductor who knew enough about KB and her work and relationship with PF to craft messages that would avert suspicions for several days.

I'm sure there are some known facts that don't fit one or more of the above theories and can be used to rule some of them out. But I strongly believe that once the ping from Gooding is understood, then the rest of the story will fall into place.
 
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"Yes they will be companion dogs at some point but right now we are getting them to be working dogs."

So I guess NOT treated like chickens who stop laying?
?? No! You do form a bond with the dog, they learn to read you and it's not uncommon to have a few old ones around that are companions. You do have some that have to be put down, which is why it angers me to see how he's training those dogs. They're too aggressive and although this may sound heartless, I'd have to say it would be too much work to dampen that aggression into a productive work dog and I'd put it down. I wouldn't even give it out as a companion because it would be too likely to be aggressive with it's owner.
What you're doing when you train a cattle or sheep dog is you're harnessing that predatory behavior. The good ones are strong alpha's, so you have to make sure they respect you, if not you can get hurt but more than that, your cattle or sheep with bankrupt you with injuries. If all you do is teach aggression without it being channeled properly, you've doomed that dog. It's playing with your food and it's poor form. His training is what I've seen with young men, 13 year old boys who are new and have lots to prove. But at his age, he's too old to be behaving that way and he knows better.
 
Haaaaa. It was reported in the latest Daily Mail article on this case.

A horse didn’t take kindly to him, and kicked him square in the head.

He had to go to the hospital.

Poetic justice, if the animal abuse stories are true.
Noting , getting kicked in the head bad enough can lead to anger issues , bad enough to kill someone IE; Charles Whitman, Charles Manson, Henry Lee Lucas ....Aaron Hernandez , just sayin
 
I still don’t have a smart phone...just a phone that texts and makes calls...so I sure wouldn’t be one to know anything about pings except for what I have learned on WS...which is always contradictory imo.
 
For me, not matter what venue I'm working my dog(s). Again, my experience is with German Shepherds. They are my PARTNERS. We work side by side. There is an enormous amount of respect on both sides. They absolutely trust me, as I do them. I do not have experience with cattle but do sheep.

My first GSD, I titled HGH (Herding Utility Dog). This is a German SV title. I do not own a farm but had a dog with strong genetic herding lines and I wanted to have fun.

My second GSD, is my scent detection dog.

Both of my dogs have high prey drive, hunt drive and pack drive. This is what I seek. They have strong working minds and must have a job. At the end of the day however, they relax, settle in the house. Just last night they were on my sofa passed out while I watched a movie.

My friend has dairy cows and she uses her Border Collie to bring them in from the pasture. It's actually very beautiful to watch her work. What's super cool about her story, she was a rescue, owners dumped her, said she was too hyper. The sweet girl just needed a job and a gentle hand.
 
As to her going on a soul searching trip... once again, she left her vehicles at home. If she had rented a car we wouldn’t be having this conversation. If she borrowed from someone, we would know all about it.

And to your experience with cell phone service in Idaho. That’s your experience with your particular carrier. A different carrier would have different results. I have two phones, one with Verizon and one with Sprint. The Verizon phone has LTE service 99.99% of the places I go, but the Sprint phone often drops to 3G or 1X. We don’t know what carrier KB had.

Excellent points, I agree with, though I was with someone with Verizon. I locked my keys in the car at one point and know we had to travel a long way to get even his phone in coverage.

I do not think it impossible that a cell may ping when mine did not, I simply added for understanding that it is wide open land that goes on and on.

But alas that is all mute as the point of the cars/rental car is crushing to the soul searching.
 
Noting , getting kicked in the head bad enough can lead to anger issues , bad enough to kill someone IE; Charles Whitman, Charles Manson, Henry Lee Lucas ....Aaron Hernandez , just sayin
The anger issues precipitated the whole being kicked in the head thing.

The anger was the cause, not the effect.
 
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Snipped
Rogers said the police have conducted a "textbook investigation" so far, by starting out by looking at Berreth's home and the people with whom she was closest.

He said investigators will do a full forensic analysis of Berreth's computers, cell phones, text messages, emails and so on.

"The question that I know the police are trying to answer is: Why did it take 10 days, ... why did it take that period of time for somebody to report her missing?" Rogers said.

He said he believes investigators may have obtained a piece of evidence that they are not publicly revealing, in order not to compromise their investigation.

"The police are on track. They're doing a good job with this, but they're being careful not to release too much information, so that the case is not compromised," Rogers said. "Somebody knows something. And I'm sure the police are onto that person. That's why they don't want to say too much.

Colorado Mom Missing Since Thanksgiving: Police Consider Disappearance 'Suspicious'

I so hope this is true - BBM

RB&UBM (RB&UBM = Respectfully Bolded and Underlined by Me)

Sounds like Roger's, who is a retired detective doesn't think KB made a decision to walk away from her baby and life. I don't think she did either.
jmo
 
I think the financial difficulties PF was having per KB's mom are an important piece of this puzzle. IMO, there is a high probability monetary issues played a significant role in her disappearance, possibly in a number of different ways.
ITA. I think KB made more money than PF and the big reason she didn't let him move in with her. I also think the reason he lived with his mother wasn't so he could provide care for her; it was because he couldn't afford to live anywhere else.
JMO
 
This is a well trained dog from a good trainer.

Thank you for sharing this! I don’t own (or work with) either cattle OR dogs but I still found the video mesmerizing. This trainer has such a calm and contained control of the dogs, with my untrained eyes and ears he seems to be working a lot less for the animals’ obedience than PF does in his videos. Not sure I recognized anything he did as being explicitly damaging but again, I don’t work cows or dogs. ETA: nevermind I just read your follow-up post Mom24, where you describe what he’s not doing so well - thank you again!
 
I think CB and PF were not in regular communication, Regardless of the status of KP and PF’s relationship.

Therefore in my mind it’s entirely possible what KB told her mother that she had as a set of plans on 11/22 , PF knew nothing about.

It’s also probable that whatever KB said in the text to PF on 11/25 about her plans , he assumed she had already discussed with her family. (If innocent)

As someone else mentioned, I would love to know KBs phone activity from 11/22 thru 11/25 . Internet , texts, calls and all pings

It would be interesting to know what or if he responded to the text that came from KB's phone from Idaho.
 
That's right. It's part of the logic behind a survival method called the three t's. Test, threaten, transport. Attackers tend to test a possible victim first to see if they're viable prey. That can be something as innocuous as asking a woman in a dark parking average or as she runs by on a trail, for the time. Or saying hi to her. Does she timidly approach and politely answer? What is her body language and demeanor? My dad taught me to make bold eye contact and be confident and impolite: "I don't know, chief. Go ask a man." I didn't pass his test. Next victim.

For those who do pass the predator test, he moves to the threaten stage. This can be done by using a weapon, making a scary statement or even physically invading the victim's space. So man who asked for the time and got a polite answer is now moving rapidly closer, for example. Maybe blocking the woman from getting around him.

This is when she has to aggressively address the threat- "Get the F away from me!" Or use a weapon on him if he pulls one on you. Etc.

Final stage, transport. Predators virtually never rape or kill someone where they find them. They always take them somewhere else even if it's to drag them feet away behind a car.

Don't let that happen. So you feel someone push a gun or knife against you on the street "You better some with me or I will kill you." As my dad taught me, the proper response is "F you, dude. Kill me now!" The chances or surviving an attack in public are far better than if you allow yourself to be transported. I'd rather be shot in a mall parking lot than put in a trunk and then transported to be repeatedly raped and tortured before I'm killed.

Of course this method of survival is easier to use when the predator is a stranger. What if it's someone you know and don't think badly of?

Excellent post!!!
 
Any theory that attempts to explain what happened to Kelsey has to account for the ping from her phone in Gooding ID. If this were a Hitchcock film that ping would be the plot twist that the entire story hinged on.

If that ping did not exist then it would be simpler to theorize reasons for her absence. But her phone appearing briefly 800 miles and 3 days after her last confirmed sighting creates a specific fact that needs to fit into any accurate theory. Not just fit in, but IMHO explaining that ping explains the entire story.

The ping from Gooding fits well with the early Facebook post from her Aunt that "She broke up with her ex on Thanksgiving, he said she dropped off the baby and was heading to Soap Lake Washington to visit.” Taken at face value that statement means it was PF who reported to her family that she was heading to Soap Lake. I believe that the Aunt later retracted or deleted that Facebook post.

Gooding is roughly 60% of the way between Woodland Park and Soap Lake. Gooding is a completely plausible location for her phone to ping if she was indeed traveling to Soap Lake. It is also a completely plausible location for her phone to ping if someone wants to create the illusion she was traveling to Soap Lake.

How can that ping be explained?

KB has phone (#1): Maybe Kelsey did indeed decide spontaneously to head to Washington without giving her family advance notice. PF's story about her leaving is basically true. Whatever the cause of her disappearance therefore is something unexpected that happens along the way. This theory raises a set of questions that are without answers:
  • Her known vehicles are accounted for so how is she traveling?
  • Why leave child her child behind?
  • Why doesn't she tell her family she is coming either at the onset of travel or when sending the two text messages?
KB has phone (#2): Maybe Kelsey was indeed heading west but not to Washington. She tells PF that Soap Lake is her destination to conceal some truth from him, perhaps even that she willingly wants to disappear. This has the same problems as the above theory plus creates a new mystery around her true intent.

PF has phone: Some here believe that PF must be behind KB's disappearance. An obvious extension of this belief is that PF must be responsible for creating the ping, likely as a red herring to distract from the truth. The question therefore is could he have transported her phone to Gooding and arrived back in Florissant while producing an alibi for his location and maintaining care for the child in his custody? Assuming no stops it is roughly 24 hours of round-trip driving from his home to Gooding and back. So questions that come from this theory are:
  • Could he have driven 1600 miles round-trip, pay cash along the way for any need gas or food, and not be remembered or be caught on video?
  • What alibi has he produced for his time from the 22nd to the 26th and who corroborates that alibi?
Other theories I consider less likely:

PF accomplice has phone: This suggests a conspiracy between PF and some other party to create this ping, wherein PF stays home and cares for his daughter while his accomplice (for motivation unknown) transports the phone to Gooding. But who then is this co-conspirator to what now seems a complex premeditated criminal conspiracy?

A robo-phone: Several other posters here have theorized various scenarios of apps that send time-delayed texts, ways of turning on a phone remotely, shipping the phone in a package, putting the phone on a west-bound truck, etc. These all seem like very implausible Rube Goldberg solutions to me, which involve many possible risks that the message would not be sent at all. If creating a ping from Southern Idaho was critical to someone attempting to conceal the truth then taking the phone there personally or using an accomplice seem far more reliable.

All five of the above theories imply either that Kelsey told PF she was heading to Soap Lake or that PF invented the story that Kelsey was heading to Soap Lake. There is, however, another possibility.

An abductor has her phone (and possibly KB): PF may indeed have received a message stating that Kelsey was heading to Soap Lake, but it was sent by an abductor who knew enough about KB and her work and relationship with PF to craft messages that would avert suspicions for several days.

I'm sure there are some known facts that don't fit one or more of the above theories and can be used to rule some of them out. But I strongly believe that once the ping from Gooding is understood, then the rest of the story will fall into place.

Excellent post. We haven't heard a word on PF's alibi, so IMO him having her phone is the most likely scenario
 
So, both posters here that have commented that they didn’t get a smart phone recently, have also both said they are not good at technology. If you use that as the basis of speculation, PF likely didn’t manipulate that ping or the phone. If he did this, it was either a false ping (by fault of a glitch) or he was physically in Idaho.

Or someone he knew.
 
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