OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[IQuestion]

It sounds like, to me, that they've used existing technology, at the victims' homes, to their benefit in accomplishing the murders. It's possible that a baby monitor would already be in the home of HMR (she'd recently had a baby shower). Could have even been as simple as entering something, as them, online, to throw off the timeline (DR's and HMR's last texts and s.m. posts, for example?).


With the pets, I took it to mean that they learned the movements of, and tracked the pets, too. The dogs were included as the R's counter-surveillance "devices", along with their video cameras, in other words.




Counts 17_20
How could 8 die without a trace of the killers? Father agrees in Fayette court to extradition



Timeline
Timeline of the Pike County killings | Killings | Murder

RSD1200 Those are two of the most interesting articles! Thank you for the links..especially liked the TIMELINE format. (will print out and add info as released.)

 

[IQuestion]

The parents and their sons allegedly hacked their targets’ social media accounts, learned their movements and tracked counter-surveillance devices — “including pets” — on the victims’ properties, court documents say.

Read more here: How could 8 die without a trace of the killers? Father agrees in Fayette court to extradition
These are tracker products available JAN 2016... the newer reviews for 2017, '18, 19' (although more user friendly) would not be relevant. I am thinking "trackers" would be common tech equipment implemented on a large ranch. Wouldn't you want to know where your $30,000 horse had gone if it accidentally got loose?? (Hey while you are at it, could you add 3 dog trackers and two bullet proof vests to that order?)
Top pet trackers for keeping tabs on your furry friends | TechRadar

 

[Cool Cats]

Hi STAREYES, Good to see you posting! I think many locals are hampered by snow and playoffs today. I could tell my husband, "I am having an affair and I want a divorce." And he would absentmindedly reply, "Can we talk about this after the game?"
You brought up a really good observation:
JW was very smiley, almost "giddy" at second appearance. (Wonder why? Good news? Room upgade?)
These are just my impressions based on facial expressions and minimal physical maneuvers:
GWIV stares, focusing intently on every word, almost anticipatory and the only one to ask for bail. (I can not hear the muffled last words of his attorneys request at 1st appearance, but would love to read. ANYONE?)
AW did not show much emotion in the first appearance, but sometimes appeared as if she she was going to smile, but finally decided it was not a good idea or the gravity of the situation was now a reality.
AW The second appearance....wow, AW & RUW lost their poker faces! Lots of talk about "no contact" by 3rd parties and RW doing the "over the top writing on her pants." AW's face showed a lot of stress and frustration.
GW3 1st hearing was stoic, pushed back from table and aloof, (same for Ky court appearance) but moved quickly to cover tattooed hand when prompted by attorney. At the 2nd, I see concern for the first time....yep he realizes things aren't going well, (the wings of his little bird just got clipped), and makes a lot of eye contact with RW. Noticeable weight loss.
RN Looks serious. Her attorney is quiet, dignified and serious in each court appearance. Same observation for the attorneys representing JW, GW3, GWIV, and AW
Please feel comfortable to present differing impressions...there are no wrong impressions.

Here's an article that states the last of what GW4's Attorney says about bail. However, the article leaves out the last sentence of what he said which is that "GW4 has been more closely monitored (or word similar to that) than people are when they are on probation."

Wagner brother to answer to murder charges for Rhoden family massacre

My observations on George 4 in court are that in both court appearances he is shifty eyed---looks around more than the others. Also, at the start of his pre - trial he is constantly very nervously wringing his hands and the camera gets an up close shot of this.

 

[IQuestion]

Here's an article that states the last of what GW4's Attorney says about bail. However, the article leaves out the last sentence of what he said which is that "GW4 has been more closely monitored (or word similar to that) than people are when they are on probation."

Wagner brother to answer to murder charges for Rhoden family massacre

My observations on George 4 in court are that in both court appearances he is shifty eyed---looks around more than the others. Also, at the start of his pre - trial he is constantly very nervously wringing his hands and the camera gets an up close shot of this.

Good observation COOLCATS! You are absolutely spot on about the "the hand wringing."
I didn't recall his hands until you mentioned it. I'm going to re-watch now, thank you.
the definition of hand-wringing
noun. a physical expression of concern, distress, or guilt. the nervous grasping or squeezing of the hands as a sign of these feelings.
Hmm, just "fast forwarded" videos...more anxiety than other defendants, if my meter was set for "hand wringing indications." I got the feeling he really is worried and especially "conflicted." (the weak link look, IMO.)

 

[Cool Cats]

Good observation COOLCATS! You are absolutely spot on about the "the hand wringing."
I didn't recall his hands until you mentioned it. I'm going to re-watch now, thank you.
the definition of hand-wringing
noun. a physical expression of concern, distress, or guilt. the nervous grasping or squeezing of the hands as a sign of these feelings.

Because you mention the definition of hand wringing, I thought you might enjoy reading about micro expressions.

I picked this article because it shows a lot of face photos as examples.

* WARNING*
Once you start learning to read micro expressions you can't unlearn it. You may see a micro expression on someone who your talking to and wish you hadn't.

I see micro expressions all the time on TV and I'll go back and hit pause and get a good idea how someone really feels.

Just thought you might find this interesting.
The Definitive Guide to Reading Microexpressions (With Examples)

 

[Gracie55]

The parents and their sons allegedly hacked their targets’ social media accounts, learned their movements and tracked counter-surveillance devices — “including pets” — on the victims’ properties, court documents say.

Read more here: How could 8 die without a trace of the killers? Father agrees in Fayette court to extradition
These are tracker products available JAN 2016... the newer reviews for 2017, '18, 19' (although more user friendly) would not be relevant. I am thinking "trackers" would be common tech equipment implemented on a large ranch. Wouldn't you want to know where your $30,000 horse had gone if it accidentally got loose?? (Hey while you are at it, could you add 3 dog trackers and two bullet proof vests to that order?)
Top pet trackers for keeping tabs on your furry friends | TechRadar

GPS trackers for dogs are common like for hog dogs. That way the handler can track and find the hog more quickly after the dog has it cornered, or the dog if it is hurt in the hunt.
Did they each carry gps trackers to chart the crime progress in each location and thus time the hits without sending cell texts? Would a dog program be detected by LE less readily than texts or calls if they were hunting communications between perps?
Or would it be used to track where the dogs were at on the property? They might have wanted to know where the dogs were before the strike.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

AW - March 20 1:30 pm
JW - Jan 24 11:00 am (pre-trial and motion hearings)
FW - March 28 1:30 pm
GW4 - March 22 1:30 pm
GW3 - March 29 1:30 pm
RN - March 28 10:00 am

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...1t3ZHOmWCEQSeYAe2Nas-0BSosdCw4t9TojgYJjqbvRIA

Thanks!

 

[Dudly]

GPS trackers for dogs are common like for hog dogs. That way the handler can track and find the hog more quickly after the dog has it cornered, or the dog if it is hurt in the hunt.
Did they each carry gps trackers to chart the crime progress in each location and thus time the hits without sending cell texts? Would a dog program be detected by LE less readily than texts or calls if they were hunting communications between perps?
Or would it be used to track where the dogs were at on the property? They might have wanted to know where the dogs were before the strike.

They use those radio collars here too when they hunt coyote. You see trucks setting along the road with directional antennas to track the dogs. I don't know if they are accurate enough to know where a dog is inside a house, but they might be to know if the dogs were let out. They may have been let out when CRsr was getting ready to leave or go to bed. DR may have let her's out when she got home from work.

 

[Gracie55]

They use those radio collars here too when they hunt coyote. You see trucks setting along the road with directional antennas to track the dogs. I don't know if they are accurate enough to know where a dog is inside a house, but they might be to know if the dogs were let out. They may have been let out when CRsr was getting ready to leave or go to bed. DR may have let her's out when she got home from work.

I don't know how far collar technology has come since we used the boundary feature several years ago to keep our dogs on the premises. Maybe they could tell if they were outside? My phone sure can pinpoint where I am, so I bet the technology is there.

Maybe their dogs had the shock feature on the setup. Could that be how they controlled them during the murders.

I've pondered on when Sr was killed based on that autopsy conclusion that he was further decomposed.
Could also be he headed home when DR got off, and first let the dogs out. And killers in

 

[Dudly]

Amazing... Two and a half years of speculation about what happened. Arrests are made and all we can do is speculate anyway for now. I definitely think the Ws will do all they can to keep details of the case from the public. I do not think they will want the public to know just how how gruesome things were. They don't want people to not like them. After all, it was necessary to do this. Even if part of it is made public, it may be another year or more till it is made public when trials finally start. Be prepared for extreme boredom with with an occasional snippet of excitement...

 

[OhioCountry girl]

Here's an article that states the last of what GW4's Attorney says about bail. However, the article leaves out the last sentence of what he said which is that "GW4 has been more closely monitored (or word similar to that) than people are when they are on probation."

Wagner brother to answer to murder charges for Rhoden family massacre

My observations on George 4 in court are that in both court appearances he is shifty eyed---looks around more than the others. Also, at the start of his pre - trial he is constantly very nervously wringing his hands and the camera gets an up close shot of this.

This may of been said already but I also noted that as well as did his father. There was a close up one time of George 3 wringing his hands quite hard, you could see a bit of white at the knuckles. Possibly have the same nervous habit?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Amazing... Two and a half years of speculation about what happened. Arrests are made and all we can do is speculate anyway for now. I definitely think the Ws will do all they can to keep details of the case from the public. I do not think they will want the public to know just how how gruesome things were. They don't want people to not like them. After all, it was necessary to do this. Even if part of it is made public, it may be another year or more till it is made public when trials finally start. Be prepared for extreme boredom with with an occasional snippet of excitement...

Alexa has a setting that allows a friend to talk or listen to you without you not noticing they are there it is called Drop-in , the LE could have got a warrant to activate this setting JMO this is how the LE over heard the conversation about retaliation!

 

[Cool Cats]

This may of been said already but I also noted that as well as did his father. There was a close up one time of George 3 wringing his hands quite hard, you could see a bit of white at the knuckles. Possibly have the same nervous habit?

Probably they are simply nervous. Especially if they are guilty. In one of the court videos with GW3, his attorney looks like he's telling George to cover up the scorpion tattoo on his trigger finger, he quickly tried to cover it.

I will have to look again for what you say about George 3 wringing his hands.

A scorpion tattoo can have many meanings but one of those meanings can be to show how many people you murdered. It looks like there are 8 segments on the tail of George's scorpion.


If you look closely at GW3's right trigger finger in this photo it doesn't look like there is a scorpion tattoo on his right trigger finger. (I admit photo is not real clear but from what I can tell here I don't see the tattoo.)
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/bc...2.jpg?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop

This was taken sometime after the Wagners moved to Alaska in May 2017. So when George "Billy" got the tattoo it was likely done in Alaska or likely done when he came back to Ohio...... Just My 2 Cents......

He must have been confident that he wouldn't end up in court. Now he is having trouble hiding the tattoo from the court cameras that like to zero in.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Probably they are simply nervous. Especially if they are guilty. In one of the court videos with GW3, his attorney looks like he's telling George to cover up the scorpion tattoo on his trigger finger, he quickly tried to cover it.

I will have to look again for what you say about George 3 wringing his hands.

A scorpion tattoo can have many meanings but one of those meanings can be to show how many people you murdered. It looks like there are 8 scales/notches on George's scorpion.


If you look closely at GW3's right trigger finger in this photo it doesn't look like there is a scorpion tattoo on his trigger finger.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/bc...2.jpg?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop

This was taken sometime after the Wagners moved to Alaska in May 2017. So when George "Billy" got the tattoo it was in Alaska or when he came back to Ohio.

He must have been confident that he wouldn't end up in court. Now he is having trouble hiding the tattoo from the court cameras that like to zero in.

It's possible he got the tattoo once it became real that the "close to the cross" family that loved HR like a daughter and Chris Sr like a brother (according to AW in media) cover was blown. Once the illegal activities of the past became known by friends and neighbors, who may have thought the W4 were a loving wholesome family, he could have figured no sense in hiding or pretending to be so great anymore.

I could see Billy as possibly being the type to be relieved the false gig is up and demonstrating that by adding his unhideable ink. It would be interesting to know the conversation that was had with the individual that did the work. It seems like a common question would be to ask what the art means to someone as it's being designed or inked on.
-opinion only-

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

How can you ask for mercy but plead not guilty. Well mercy for what?

 

[Cool Cats]

It's possible he got the tattoo once it became real that the "close to the cross" family that loved HR like a daughter and Chris Sr like a brother (according to AW in media) cover was blown. Once the illegal activities of the past became known by friends and neighbors, who may have thought the W4 were a loving wholesome family, he could have figured no sense in hiding or pretending to be so great anymore.

I could see Billy as possibly being the type to be relieved the false gig is up and demonstrating that by adding his unhideable ink. It would be interesting to know the conversation that was had with the individual that did the work. It seems like a common question would be to ask what the art means to someone as it's being designed or inked on.
-opinion only-

If he thought the "jig is up" why not go to a country where there are no extradition treaties with the US?

But your right, they did seem to know they might be arrested and the proof there is in the conversations the Wags had in Fred's house. Several conversations according to Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa.

 

[Cool Cats]

How can you ask for mercy but plead not guilty. Well mercy for what?

There are 2 phases in a death penalty trial. Guilty phase and sentencing phase.

So if your found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt you will need to ask for Mercy in the sentencing phase. If granted Mercy, you get life W/O parole rather than a death sentence.

Not the same case but here is an example of guilty phase and sentencing phase. (Sometimes the sentencing phase is referred to as the penalty phase.)

What Are the Stages of a Death Penalty Case?

 

[Tiff23fr]

If he thought the "jig is up" why not go to a country where there are no extradition treaties with the US?

But your right, they did seem to know they might be arrested and the proof there is in the conversations the Wags had in Fred's house. Several conversations according to Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa.

They were aware a grand jury had been meeting, and FW and RN had been called in. So it seems they would have known arrests were near.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

They were aware a grand jury had been meeting, and FW and RN had been called in. So it seems they would have known arrests were near.

Not necessarily. Not until they finally got enough evidence to get everyone involved

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Alexa has a setting that allows a friend to talk or listen to you without you not noticing they are there it is called Drop-in , the LE could have got a warrant to activate this setting JMO this is how the LE over heard the conversation about retaliation!

Oh please, Alexa devices are dumb and most people wouldn’t even think of owning one (me included) ... much less a murder suspect owning one.

LE can bug you in multiple different ways