Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[MistyWaters]

Interesting. This new fact tells us one important piece of information. There was a camera permanently pointed at the Sherman home, and the neighbour obviously didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the days leading up to the crime. We know that there was no forced entry, so how did the perp get in to the house???

Welcome to the thread. Since the neighbour didn’t mention anything about other days aside from the 14th, it can’t be assumed nothing was seen on any other days.

But you’re right, the camera is big news.

 

[rickcross]

1. Was already waiting inside the house from having entered at a previous time, having gained entry in any numerous ways, such as possibly when someone entered via the garage, before it closed
2. Entered through an exterior door left unlocked by someone, say perhaps a 'potential buyer' viewing the home with a realtor
3. Knocked at the door and H let him in
4. Arrived at the home WITH H
Anyone else have any ideas?

Also, I don't feel this new fact tells us there was a camera permanently pointed at the S home, my mind would automatically go to that a neighbor's cam inadvertently recorded the happenings while pointed toward some part of their own property. Perhaps somewhere on the exterior of the neighbor's home, pointing out to cover their own driveway and in front of their house. (This may be a clue as to which neighbor it may have been?)

Do you feel that the neighbor would've been likely to see something out of the ordinary in the days leading up to the crime? I don't feel that would be the case, or that it would be meaningful in any way if nothing was seen before the day of the crime. jmo.

Security cams are generally a static view, so unless they adjusted the camera in the preceding week it more than likely was pointed at the Sherman home. If the man in the car was the week before, we know that the recording device didn’t erase or overwrite anything. So presumably there is non stop video of the home. The neighbor, who obviously had scanned the video, as they were aware of the strange man, didn’t see anything odd on the actual day of the crime, as that is what they would have talked about.

So if someone got in, shouldn’t there be evidence of that?

 

[MistyWaters]

RSBM
The media came to them, rather than vice versa. I could see a neighbor offering that information up, especially since the press was there asking questions anyway. I think people (generally) like to feel they could be of help. I could see if a neighbor thought he/she caught something potentially important on video, sent their copy to police to advise, and then feeling weird about it if TPS had never followed up on it with them, ie taken a statement or anything. Especially with all of the screwups with TPS over the past couple/few years... if the neighbor gave their only copy to TPS and they did nothing with it, who would know, other than the neighbor, so perhaps the neighbor wanted to enlighten that this was happening (not happening). It sounds like perhaps more of the same of what Greenspan talked about during the reward press conference. jmo.

My mind also ran to a Greenspan intentional but misdirected leak. Why I wondered if the anonymous person was really a neighbour.....the murder is still unsolved, a killer on the loose. The family has already expressed concerns for their personal safety. So how likely is a neighbour to let it be known they observed a video of a potential suspect? Not great, I don’t think.

Was the video from a neighbour or the Sherman home? Anonymous sources, no means of verifying.

 

[human]

Security cams are generally a static view, so unless they adjusted the camera in the preceding week it more than likely was pointed at the Sherman home. If the man in the car was the week before, we know that the recording device didn’t erase or overwrite anything. So presumably there is non stop video of the home. The neighbor, who obviously had scanned the video, as they were aware of the strange man, didn’t see anything odd on the actual day of the crime, as that is what they would have talked about.

So if someone got in, shouldn’t there be evidence of that?

The video announcement may be an announcement to the killer(s) that the LE has video.

When a crime is revealed as solved on here, I am surprised as to how much info LE has. They do not reveal much.

In the Chris Watts case, LE toyed with him as if he was a mouse

 

[deugirtni]

My mind also ran to a Greenspan intentional but misdirected leak. Why I wondered if the anonymous person was really a neighbour.....the murder is still unsolved, a killer on the loose. The family has already expressed concerns for their personal safety. So how likely is a neighbour to let it be known they observed a video of a potential suspect? Not great, I don’t think.

Was the video from a neighbour or the Sherman home? Anonymous sources, no means of verifying.

The MSM who got the story isn't exposing which neighbor it was, so if this talk about a video recording is all just a ploy by LE/PIs for some reason, wouldn't it create the same type of risk to *all and any* of the neighbors that an actual neighbor would be exposing him/herself to? Nobody knows *which* neighbor, so it's the same effect.

If something ended up happening to one of the neighbors after this was in the news, and it was discovered that it had merely been a ploy by LE or PIs, they would be exposing themselves to one helluva lawsuit.

 

[deugirtni]

Security cams are generally a static view, so unless they adjusted the camera in the preceding week it more than likely was pointed at the Sherman home. If the man in the car was the week before, we know that the recording device didn’t erase or overwrite anything. So presumably there is non stop video of the home. The neighbor, who obviously had scanned the video, as they were aware of the strange man, didn’t see anything odd on the actual day of the crime, as that is what they would have talked about.

So if someone got in, shouldn’t there be evidence of that?

I guess it would depend on whether the neighbor's camera had good night vision, and/or whether the killer(s) entered via the driveway/front door? What if the killer/s entered via the garage door at some earlier point before it shut, or that little back door from the basement level, or what if the killer entered the home and hid out somewhere while waiting for an opportunity, or maybe the killer was even aware that the two would be attending this meeting on this day at that time at Apotex, entered the home at some prior time and just holed up in the furnace room or somewhere nobody was likely to access?

 

[MistyWaters]

I guess it would depend on whether the neighbor's camera had good night vision, and/or whether the killer(s) entered via the driveway/front door? What if the killer/s entered via the garage door at some earlier point before it shut, or that little back door from the basement level, or what if the killer entered the home and hid out somewhere while waiting for an opportunity, or maybe the killer was even aware that the two would be attending this meeting on this day at that time at Apotex, entered the home at some prior time and just holed up in the furnace room or somewhere nobody was likely to access?

I think just this one paragraph in the Maclean’s report perfectly illistrates what the public knows for certain about this case at this point in time. Nothing.

“The fluke disclosure is a reminder that the Toronto Police Service has more evidence than the public knows—and also that the police don’t share evidence with the public. Much of what is believed about the Sherman case—that neighbourhood video surveillance failed to unearth anything, that the couple was found with their coats pulled back behind their backs with arms bound—is the product of speculation or attributed to unsourced leaks...”
A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans' vanishing murder case - Macleans.ca

 

[MistyWaters]

The MSM who got the story isn't exposing which neighbor it was, so if this talk about a video recording is all just a ploy by LE/PIs for some reason, wouldn't it create the same type of risk to *all and any* of the neighbors that an actual neighbor would be exposing him/herself to? Nobody knows *which* neighbor, so it's the same effect.

If something ended up happening to one of the neighbors after this was in the news, and it was discovered that it had merely been a ploy by LE or PIs, they would be exposing themselves to one helluva lawsuit.

I suppose the same could be said of a personal interview with any one of the neighbours who chooses to remain anonymous and potential risk posed to the other neighbours - if the risk is real, regardless of the source. But typically it’s Fear of risk, why potential witnesses do not publicly speak out about what they know of unsolved murders.

Hoping this might be an indication charges will soon be laid..

 

[dotr]

Wondering about the chances of a will turning up somewhere in the recesses of the house once (presumably) demolition begins? speculation, imo.
Dec. 12, 2018 rbbm.
Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star
“We don’t know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will,” Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told a court hearing in July. “We don’t know if there is no will.” To proceed with the administration of the couple’s estate, Youdan filed a document asking for the “appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman.”

Now, a court-ordered veil of secrecy shrouds almost everything related to the Sherman estates, as does a court order keeping secret the progress of the yearlong Toronto police homicide probe."

"In his first of two sealing orders, Ontario Superior Court Justice Sean Dunphy wrote in June that the file contains “confidential materials of potential relevance to the police investigation.”

"In the hearing before Dunphy, Youdan said simply, “We do not know the order of death.” Due to the sealed file, the Star lacks the information to understand the relevance of this statement"

"Further complicating the estate situation is that, soon after the deaths, at least one person claimed to be due a sizable payout that was allegedly promised by Honey, according to sources close to the Sherman family"

 

[MistyWaters]

I recall WS’s VI Kerry Winter claims that Shermans had home security to prove m/s occurred, no other persons came or left the residence.

I’m VERY curious of his opinion on the latest media report - that a man was seen on video the day before the murders were discovered, parked in front and then entering the Sherman home.


Snipped from his post #1140, Jan 12, 2019
“The elaborate computerized security system monitored every window/door that opens and closes. Honey came home 1st: door opens/closes. Barry came home: door opens/closes. NOBODY came in/left. There wasn’t forced entry!”
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

 

[ldlager]

I think just this one paragraph in the Maclean’s report perfectly illistrates what the public knows for certain about this case at this point in time. Nothing.

“The fluke disclosure is a reminder that the Toronto Police Service has more evidence than the public knows—and also that the police don’t share evidence with the public. Much of what is believed about the Sherman case—that neighbourhood video surveillance failed to unearth anything, that the couple was found with their coats pulled back behind their backs with arms bound—is the product of speculation or attributed to unsourced leaks...”
A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans' vanishing murder case - Macleans.ca

Misty, Articles like the McLeans one is why I have almost no trust in what MSM reports. I have followed this case from the first hours, and I have read every post on this site. I have read numerous web postings regarding this case as well an Canadian and international media reports. I cannot recall that anyone EVER reported that the Sherman’s were found “with arms bound”. Both LE and the PI’s have said their arms were NOT bound when they were found.
Have I missed something?

 

[dotr]

Misty, Articles like the McLeans one is why I have almost no trust in what MSM reports. I have followed this case from the first hours, and I have read every post on this site. I have read numerous web postings regarding this case as well an Canadian and international media reports. I cannot recall that anyone EVER reported that the Sherman’s were found “with arms bound”. Both LE and the PI’s have said their arms were NOT bound when they were found.
Have I missed something?

Jan 23 2018
Private investigators believe Toronto billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, source says | CBC News
rbbm.

"Their wrists showed evidence that they had been, at one point, bound together. No rope or other materials that could have been used to tie their wrists were discovered, the source told CBC Toronto.

Their bodies were otherwise limp and their arms unbound when they were discovered, the source said. The day the Shermans were found police said that there was no evidence of forced entry into the home."
Dec 19 2017
WARMINGTON: Questions surround deaths of billionaire couple
"Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms.

It is believed the camera in the pool area had been disconnected."

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty, Articles like the McLeans one is why I have almost no trust in what MSM reports. I have followed this case from the first hours, and I have read every post on this site. I have read numerous web postings regarding this case as well an Canadian and international media reports. I cannot recall that anyone EVER reported that the Sherman’s were found “with arms bound”. Both LE and the PI’s have said their arms were NOT bound when they were found.
Have I missed something?

There are numerous media reports indicating the way in which the coats were positioned somehow restricted any arm movement. I’m assuming that’s what is being referred to as that information has no attributed source.

“Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms....”
WARMINGTON: Questions surround deaths of billionaire couple

“They also say the pair were found seated, poolside, with winter coats pulled down over their shoulders to limit arm movement.....”
Private investigators say Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered: reports

“......and their winter coats pulled back over their arms.....”
It’s been a year since Barry and Honey Sherman were killed. There are so many questions. So few answers

 

[rickcross]

The video announcement may be an announcement to the killer(s) that the LE has video.

When a crime is revealed as solved on here, I am surprised as to how much info LE has. They do not reveal much.

In the Chris Watts case, LE toyed with him as if he was a mouse

How long did it take to arrest Chris Watts?

 

[rickcross]

I guess it would depend on whether the neighbor's camera had good night vision, and/or whether the killer(s) entered via the driveway/front door? What if the killer/s entered via the garage door at some earlier point before it shut, or that little back door from the basement level, or what if the killer entered the home and hid out somewhere while waiting for an opportunity, or maybe the killer was even aware that the two would be attending this meeting on this day at that time at Apotex, entered the home at some prior time and just holed up in the furnace room or somewhere nobody was likely to access?

Whenever they entered, the video should have showed it. It obviously showed the unidentified man lurking and entering the house the previous week.

 

[MistyWaters]

Whenever they entered, the video should have showed it. It obviously showed the unidentified man lurking and entering the house the previous week.

Rather than getting sidetracked on the date, it’s big news IF security video is available of the Sherman driveway and home entrance before (during) and after the murders, whether or not the man in the car is relavent or not. Bet the killer knows.

Maybe you’ve only begun following this double homicide case recently but even so, I cannot think of one reason why everyone wouldn’t be hopeful an arrest will occur soon. Including you.

 

[dotr]

Considering that the Sherman murders may have been an assassination, it is still surprising that it did not involve them getting shot, AFAWK. rbbm.

If it is true that someone may have been lingering around the Sherman home in the days prior to the deaths, that behavior is perhaps more in keeping with the actions of a "hit man". article below.
Complete speculation, imo.fwiw.
Photos show alleged gunman reaching into jacket as he approaches Mafia-linked murder victim
"The man is believed to have followed Cece Luppino, 43, into the garage of his Mountain Brow Blvd. home at about 3:10 p.m. on Jan. 30, and shot him dead."
"The photos are from surveillance video at the Luppino home and from video of a neighbouring home, also owned by the Luppino family, but police have not released the actual video"
"Hamilton police detectives said they believe the gunman had been watching the home for perhaps several days before the shooting, possibly from a small park across the road that overlooks the lower city from the escarpment."

 

[human]

How long did it take to arrest Chris Watts?

Good point. But he confessed so there is that

 

[rickcross]

Rather than getting sidetracked on the date, it’s big news IF security video is available of the Sherman driveway and home entrance before (during) and after the murders, whether or not the man in the car is relavent or not. Bet the killer knows.

Maybe you’ve only begun following this double homicide case recently but even so, I cannot think of one reason why everyone wouldn’t be hopeful an arrest will occur soon. Including you.

Obviously I’m hopefull. Just not understanding why it’s taking so long or why the police haven’t asked for assistance? Seems to me they have done this in other cases? My feeling is these men are back in Russia or wherever they came from.

 

[rickcross]

Considering that the Sherman murders may have been an assassination, it is still surprising that it did not involve them getting shot, AFAWK. rbbm.

If it is true that someone may have been lingering around the Sherman home in the days prior to the deaths, that behavior is perhaps more in keeping with the actions of a "hit man". article below.
Complete speculation, imo.fwiw.
Photos show alleged gunman reaching into jacket as he approaches Mafia-linked murder victim
"The man is believed to have followed Cece Luppino, 43, into the garage of his Mountain Brow Blvd. home at about 3:10 p.m. on Jan. 30, and shot him dead."
"The photos are from surveillance video at the Luppino home and from video of a neighbouring home, also owned by the Luppino family, but police have not released the actual video"
"Hamilton police detectives said they believe the gunman had been watching the home for perhaps several days before the shooting, possibly from a small park across the road that overlooks the lower city from the escarpment."

The reason for not using a gun is that they were looking for something and tortured them until they handed it over. Probably a secret formula for a revolutionary new drug. The fact that it was secret is the reason why police don’t know it’s missing.