CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

[A lucas]

.


Confirmation Bias.

I’d call it (yet more) circumstantial evidence.

 

[travelbug]

Implying.....that Mike posted it. In what right frame of mind would he do that? It just seems illogical imo. Or anyone for that matter.

I didn't imply anything regarding MM. I just remember that many of those members were personal family friends and while trying to assist with the "missing posters" and searches many things were repeated that should have been deleted or ignored. But, it was stressful time for everyone. imo

 

[mrjitty]

I love reading your posts but to say Chase shouldn’t of paid Joey back is laughable. IMO

He was the sole reason they lost the client so he should of paid him straight back not even in installments. As soon as Joey lost the chargeback Chase should of paid him all back then and there.

Chase himself has not even made the argument.

Indeed he admitted to CJ that he was to pay back all 19K.

It is strange to make arguments for the defence that the defence is not even making.

 

[missy1974]

RSBM

Meh - I think you are ducking me!

The defense know 100% what happened. The defense know Joey paid Chase 19K

So why would Maline be asking CJ 3x if Chase DIDN'T get paid?

I won't go on about it, but I think you have no choice but to acknowledge the defence is skewered on this one

Pretty sure I said I hadn't listened to it again yet... I don't know why they asked her that, I don't even know if it was asked of her other than you said so... a time of the audio would be nice, but no worries, I will find it myself later I don't know yet what the defense is or isn't going to say... if they try to say he wasn't paid... that doesn't make much sense since we have heard his own words... I also said I think it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't make the argument that Chase didn't owe Joey squat for that job because it was Joey's business that got stiffed and Chase did 85% of the job, not his fault the woman didn't make final payment and did a chargeback, AGAIN JMO

 

[missy1974]

I love reading your posts but to say Chase shouldn’t of paid Joey back is laughable. IMO

He was the sole reason they lost the client so he should of paid him straight back not even in installments. As soon as Joey lost the chargeback Chase should of paid him all back then and there.

The sole reason was because the woman or company wouldn't pay the final balance before it was completed IMO

 

[asyousay]

The sole reason was because the woman or company wouldn't pay the final balance before it was completed IMO

No I read the report yesterday and Chase was doing what she wanted and was not turning up, ignoring calls and incredibly rude to her.

I don’t blame her for not wanting to deal with somebody like that. He was totally unprofessional in his approach towards the work.

PayPal obviously agreed as she won the case which she would of had to supply evidence of what she was claiming.

 

[travelbug]

True. But this was long after the disappearance.

This is a direct quote from the article I posted: ..."In July 2011, Kavanaugh ended up selling McStay's business, Earth Inspired Products"...
1) That is only 16 months after the disappearance and the general perception was the family "willingly left".
2) There had been no court mandated settlement of the estate at that time.
3) Under what possible legal premise did DK have the right to sell Joey's business.
These are the questions that give me pause in deciding whether CM is the only person involved with the crime, let alone the sole perp and deserving of murder 1! moo

 

[geevee]

I find this comment from the CNN program interesting:

WATTS: Somebody on the McStay's home have been searching on a computer for passwords and traveling to Mexico.

CNN.com - Transcripts

We have heard nothing about anyone searching for passwords... unless of course that was after they were reported missing and maybe the family/friends were looking on the computers, which is 100% logical to me. Maybe this is something we will hear about if/when we hear more about the computers and maybe even when Mike testifies again... again, JMO

RSBM

I think that's supposed to be "passports" and not 'passwords'?

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

There is an agenda here and I am not going to allow anyone to use Websleuths to support their own agenda.

The case we are discussing is the trial of Chase Merritt in the McStay family murders.

If evidence is presented in court of a cartel then yes we can discuss it. If not then we need to stop bringing it up.

It does me no good to deny a side to express their opinions. Websleuths would be very boring if we only allowed one side. However, you must stay within our rules when expressing your thoughts.

If you want to discuss any other topics and how you think they relate to this case you can go to Facebook or a million other places on the net.

We do our best to stick to facts presented in all our cases. Please remember it is Chase Merritt who is on trial.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It was complete overkill and very personal.

Extremely personal, and way over the top brutal overkills.

Imo, even though he tortured Joey before killing him, Summer caught the full brunt of his evil rage, and hatred.

I think he hated strong women who let their dislikes become known.

He hated her because she saw him for who he really was, and psychopaths hate to be exposed.

They spend their lives carefully honing their mask of deception.

It worked on Joey for a long time, just like it did on so many other victims, he was able to con out of thousands too, but it never worked on Summer.

Psychopaths never will place blame where it truly belongs, which is squarely on themselves of course.

They must see themselves always as a victim so blame is always placed on someone else, rather than the evil doer themselves.

Imo, he blamed all he did on Summer. If only she had kept her mouth shut, and not exposed him for who he is, none of this would have ever happened. It was all their fault! They are the ones who didn't tow the line staying in his good graces, no matter what.

Its always the victim's fault according to abuser instead of the abuser who is totally to blame for their own wrongdoing.

That is why abusers often say to their victims after they have just beaten them to a bloody pulp...

'Now look what YOU MADE ME do!!!' Always making themselves blameless. This too is how CM sees himself. Imo

Imo

 

[Cricket28]

I really dont think Joey checked out anything about CM. He took his word at face value. Often honest induviduals mistakenly think everyone else is honest like them.

I think he bought his gift of gab totally.

Joey isn't the only business owner by far to be so trusting unwisely, and naively when giving others a chance who did not appreciate it.

Joey strikes me as a very good, kind hearted person who sees the best in everyone even dismissing the negative

I think Joey's inner make up was all about helping others.

He may have even thought if he treated CM well, fairly, and with respect, he could change CM into becoming a decent human being too.

The true crime channels are filled with murder cases where very kind, and caring people were murdered by the very someone who they had helped the most.

Imo, none of this was Joey's fault. He is just another victim who did the right thing by their murderer, and was murdered because of those kind deeds who were finally going to cease.

ITA OBE.

 

[Bernina]

This is a direct quote from the article I posted: ..."In July 2011, Kavanaugh ended up selling McStay's business, Earth Inspired Products"...
1) That is only 16 months after the disappearance and the general perception was the family "willingly left".
2) There had been no court mandated settlement of the estate at that time.
3) Under what possible legal premise did DK have the right to sell Joey's business.
These are the questions that give me pause in deciding whether CM is the only person involved with the crime, let alone the sole perp and deserving of murder 1! moo

EIP was registered with the BBB as Joey/owner, Patrick/co-owner, and Dan/manager. Who knows who owned the rights to the website, there was no documentation, although Mike DID get the legal claim for the site latter from the new owners.
The family was considered "missing", not "dead", so there was no probate, there was no estate to settle.
If Dan can be faulted for anything, it was being an opportunist. Patrick wasn't doing anything with the website so why not? Susan and Mike didn't make any legal documentation, no LLC, no nothing. DK saw an opportunity and he took it.
And murdering a family to sell a website and domain 16 months later is pretty far fetched IMO.

 

[Force Ten]

RSBM

I think that's supposed to be "passports" and not 'passwords'?

Yes I thought that didn't sound quite right. I don't have a great deal of respect for Watts either. He's a borderline tabloid reporter imo.

 

[missy1974]

RSBM

I think that's supposed to be "passports" and not 'passwords'?

ohhh could be?

 

[Force Ten]

This is a direct quote from the article I posted: ..."In July 2011, Kavanaugh ended up selling McStay's business, Earth Inspired Products"...
1) That is only 16 months after the disappearance and the general perception was the family "willingly left".
2) There had been no court mandated settlement of the estate at that time.
3) Under what possible legal premise did DK have the right to sell Joey's business.
These are the questions that give me pause in deciding whether CM is the only person involved with the crime, let alone the sole perp and deserving of murder 1! moo

Only 16 months? As I said, a long time later. Iirc DK came into contact with these people after he placed the ad online in 2011, so unless he wisked them all back in time to help murder the family, it's a lot to infer.

 

[Force Ten]

I didn't imply anything regarding MM. I just remember that many of those members were personal family friends and while trying to assist with the "missing posters" and searches many things were repeated that should have been deleted or ignored. But, it was stressful time for everyone. imo

No I get what you're saying. But I think it was only Mike, his friend Don and possibly Guy on there posting.

I'm just trying to determine what possible good would result of posting PW to Joseph's personal email. I could think of none.

 

[Cricket28]

That's why I think a cut off of the cash spigot sparked the murder

I suspect Joey was going to withhold the 26K from SA and PM which brings the debt down to 20K approx

Chase murdered him so he could cash more cheques - he needed money right away

I think so too. Especially considering it was the beginning of the month and his rent was due. Was it $2,500.? $3,000?

Remember, according to McGyver, Chase was at JM's on 1/31 and 2/2. My guess is....Chase was desperate and trying to get rent/food money from Joey. So CM goes to Joey's on 1/31 to ask for money. But, instead of handing over a couple of thousand like he's probably done many times in the past, JM might have said something like "let me go over the books tonight and see where we're at".

The next day, on 2/1 JM sends CM the email showing that Chase owed $42,845.00.

Still desperate and needing money, Chase decides to try again and goes back to Joey's on 2/2. This is when, IMO, Joey gives Chase the check for $200. Not $2,000..only $200.

This is the turning point IMO, I think Chase might have realized he wasn't going to be able to manipulate Joey anymore and their collaboration was coming to an end.

Chase goes home, prints the check for $2,495. Goes to Union Bank and cashes it.

There is no going back now. All MOO!

 

[katydid23]

His gambling was nothing new, he had been doing it for years. Killing Joey and his family would just cut off that source of income to gamble IMO

But we cannot ignore that he had Ben gambling for years and the impact that can have on his eventual downward spiral

It is like drug addiction or heart disease. You can abuse yourself for years and at some point the accumulation builds to a critical level.

Chase abused his bod for years —cutting corners,stealing, using joeys supplies for his own projects, doing shoddy work, lying about clients and skipping work to go gamble instead

At some point that kind of behavior overrides his work relationship with his boss.

Add to that, his long time gambling addiction which had severely hampered him financially—-no bank account,no credit,cannot pay rent or bills for family,no money coming in because of his big debts over his head already.

So in my opinion, the fact that he’s a long time gambler is very important to the story.

Add to that, his previous debts to Joey , like the 19 k chargeback and you have a very volatile situation. I think Joey finally said that he was going to keep the next payments owed to Chase so they could even up the balance. And that didn’t go over well with the desperate gambler who was tapped out and manic at the time.

 

[katydid23]

But my point is Merritt being broke wouldn't be that far sighted.
He needed his fix and he needed it quickly.
What i wonder was the $100 cheque Joey gave to Merritt on the day of the murders? An insult to Merritt? The thousands of dollars were no longer going to be incoming from JM to Merritt?

YES. I have always wondered if that triggered Chase somehow. He wanted Joey to hand over a few grand for rent and Joey shows up with hundred bucks that week

That check is also important because if Joey was really setting up Chase as a co-signer in the QB account—-why would Joey write him that little check and take it there?

 

[Bernina]

I think so too. Especially considering it was the beginning of the month and his rent was due. Was it $2,500.? $3,000?

Remember, according to McGyver, Chase was at JM's on 1/31 and 2/2. My guess is....Chase was desperate and trying to get rent/food money from Joey. So CM goes to Joey's on 1/31 to ask for money. But, instead of handing over a couple of thousand like he's probably done many times in the past, JM might have said something like "let me go over the books tonight and see where we're at".

The next day, on 2/1 JM sends CM the email showing that Chase owed $42,845.00.

Still desperate and needing money, Chase decides to try again and goes back to Joey's on 2/2. This is when, IMO, Joey gives Chase the check for $200. Not $2,000..only $200.

This is the turning point IMO, I think Chase might have realized he wasn't going to be able to manipulate Joey anymore and their collaboration was coming to an end.

Chase goes home, prints the check for $2,495. Goes to Union Bank and cashes it.

There is no going back now. All MOO!

And VOILA! Chase has his rent money!!!!! How about that, and it even covers any late fees!!!