CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

Exactly. It is an interpretation of this document.

It goes to motive, and appears to involve statements by PF, “the defendant.”

Kelsey didn’t lose custody, so it appears that no action was taken.

I believe the accusations to be false.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/P-9 People's Notice of Department of Human Services Records in the District Attorney's Possession and Motion for Disclosure and Protective Order.pdf

BBM:

You and me both.

This move by PF to make accusations of abuse against KB are absolutely, positively, be directly tied to his motive for her murder.

The DA is going to point out PF's false accusations to show the jury that he was willing to go to whatever lengths necessary to get custody.

I think there will be financial reasons, as well as power/control motivations, at play here.

PF thought he was setting up KB by bringing such accusations.

As per usual, his moves will come back to bite him.

Give the guy an ACME kit and he could be Wyle E. Coyote.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

OK let's play devil's advocate:
Imagine KK is setting up PF totally....Ignore likelihood for a moment...
Could a defence argue that and explain all the evidence?

No.

The cell phone evidence is damning, and KK can’t commit a murder if she’s not there.

He says he last sees Kelsey when they exchanged the baby, but is caught on camera returning to her house.

He spends two days with her phone, making fake calls and texts.

He stored her body in a barn that he was familiar with, evidence backs this up.

Melted plastic and torched earth supports that he burned Kelsey’s body in that tote, as KK claimed.

PF is inextricably linked to this crime, and there’s just no plausible way to blame KK, and not him.

 

[Seattle1]

But that is not a strong motive to murder!

I disagree.

Child custody is absolutely a strong motive to murder (and false accusations of abuse to obtain custody go hand in hand).

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I disagree.

Child custody is absolutely a strong motive to murder (and false accusations of abuse to obtain custody go hand in hand).

MOO

Well today’s revelation firmly puts custody at the forefront.

This was the missing piece.

 

[SachinScratchin]

Somebody who is said to plan murder would not throw away the planning using a baseball bat then KK to clean up....If the defence pokes holes in KK's story, in the absence of a body, they are also creating reasonable doubt.
Also the very motive of custody suggests some degree of caring (about the baby) so ipso facto undermines itself

 

[MassGuy]

Somebody who is said to plan murder would not throw away the planning using a baseball bat then KK to clean up....If the defence pokes holes in KK's story, in the absence of a body, they are also creating reasonable doubt.
Also the very motive of custody suggests some degree of caring (about the baby) so ipso facto undermines itself

Custody was likely about possession, and not love.

That story about what happened when the baby was born, painted a damning picture of this guy.

Threatening nurses, throwing a temper tantrum, social services being called in.

That’s not normal.

 

[Mom24]

Sure but Milooosh has a point....let's keep it simple....PF has lawyered up so all info coming out is basically what the prosecution wants one to hear. let's think logically she could have set him up...
Think what the defence can say in the absence of a body

Far too many hurdles to overcome for that kind of scenario to be believable.
From not attending press conferences when KB initially went missing, lying to his friends about the nature of their relationship, lying to his friends about KB's parenting, not being concerned while she was missing, returning to her condo when he claimed to be elsewhere, checking on the bank videos, texting himself from her phone and carrying her phone with him, burning a large amount of items on his property with accelerant, not meeting with police to answer questions, witnesses and phone records that put KK in another state at the time of the murder. The list goes on. Sure, if you drug a jury pool with a combined iq of 25, then maybe, but there is no way that scenario is going to fly.

 

[Mom24]

Hi Nanz
Picking up on this do you not feel that there is so much of the story that can only originate from KK and clearly cannot be true either...Lets not forget KK has lied to the police & it's on record.
It seems to me, and sadly was, a love triangle with KK at the heart of it with the most urgent motive ? If he can set her up she can equally have set him up...
Now let's look at motive:
PF has no real motive whilst KK has jealousy...
If PF was planning a murder as is maintained WHY would he do it in such a messy way?
The whole machiatto story sounds like an idea originating from a jealous perspective not one of a macho cowboy not to mention the scented candle incident which sounds more like a genuine moment of intimacy between PF and KB which was retold by KK in the most jealously imagined way possible...ie blindfold then death by baseball battering. It makes no sense...if he was a planner then he wouldn't use such an absurdly messy means....
Now what if PF genuinely was trying to patch up with KB and this pissed off KK....She had the means to set him up calling into account all the 'phone evidence..
But to reiterate someone who plans to the extent of using 'phones etc is not going to throw away all the planning using a messy baseball bat then getting someone else to clean up.
Alternatively we know that there was communication between KK and KB so perhaps the former lured the latter out of the house and shot her with M's missing bullet then deposited blood to set PF up. Think about it we have her word against his when we realise she could have set him up ( just like she implies he did her)

If PF was trying to patch things up with KB, then why would he go around telling his friends and colleagues that she was a substance abusing, child abandoning, child abusive unreliable woman with mental issues that he had broken things off with 11 months prior to her disappearance?

 

[Noharg]

Hi Nanz
Picking up on this do you not feel that there is so much of the story that can only originate from KK and clearly cannot be true either...Lets not forget KK has lied to the police & it's on record.
It seems to me, and sadly was, a love triangle with KK at the heart of it with the most urgent motive ? If he can set her up she can equally have set him up...
Now let's look at motive:
PF has no real motive whilst KK has jealousy...
If PF was planning a murder as is maintained WHY would he do it in such a messy way?
The whole machiatto story sounds like an idea originating from a jealous perspective not one of a macho cowboy not to mention the scented candle incident which sounds more like a genuine moment of intimacy between PF and KB which was retold by KK in the most jealously imagined way possible...ie blindfold then death by baseball battering. It makes no sense...if he was a planner then he wouldn't use such an absurdly messy means....
Now what if PF genuinely was trying to patch up with KB and this pissed off KK....She had the means to set him up calling into account all the 'phone evidence..
But to reiterate someone who plans to the extent of using 'phones etc is not going to throw away all the planning using a messy baseball bat then getting someone else to clean up.
Alternatively we know that there was communication between KK and KB so perhaps the former lured the latter out of the house and shot her with the missing bullet then deposited blood to set PF up. Think about it we have her word against his when we realise she could have set him up ( just like she implies he did her)

Just curious...are you an attorney or work for one?
MOO

 

[SachinScratchin]

Well again playing the Devils Advocate (fair to do with no body) maybe he changed his mind (implied "by patch up") and maybe that angered KK

 

[Mom24]

Custody was likely about possession, and not love.

That story about what happened when the baby was born, painted a damning picture of this guy.

Threatening nurses, throwing a temper tantrum, social services being called in.

That’s not normal.

I was just going to say threatening hospital staff to the point where you risk loss of even visitation with your newborn child isn't reasonable either. The aggression he shows with his dogs, his horses and his women only makes sense to him, it's why the rest of us aren't killing our animals when they displease us and knocking of our spouses when they leave the toothpaste cover off the toothpaste.

 

[Angela_Beckett]

“To kill Berreth to protect their baby”

Justifiable during a life or death fight, I’d say.

PF planned the murder during some months. He could’ve done something that any sane and not murderous person would’ve done to protect KB during those months instead he chose to plot a heinous crime.
It’s BS plain a simple.

 

[Mom24]

Well again playing the Devils Advocate (fair to do with no body) maybe he changed his mind (implied "by patch up") and maybe that angered KK

So he spent 11 months spreading vicious lies about the mother of his child, including telling people they had broken up, and let's remember he continued that rhetoric even after KB went missing. But somehow, in the middle of all this, he changed his mind and patched things up? That's not something that makes any sense, even without a body.

 

[SachinScratchin]

No.

The cell phone evidence is damning, and KK can’t commit a murder if she’s not there.

He says he last sees Kelsey when they exchanged the baby, but is caught on camera returning to her house.

He spends two days with her phone, making fake calls and texts.

He stored her body in a barn that he was familiar with, evidence backs this up.

Melted plastic and torched earth supports that he burned Kelsey’s body in that tote, as KK claimed.

PF is inextricably linked to this crime, and there’s just no plausible way to blame KK, and not him.

But surely there would be considerable DNA amongst the burnt plastic then?

 

[SachinScratchin]

The defence will really go after KK and that is going to cause problems for the prosecution no matter how much circumstantial evidence

 

[Seattle1]

Wow is right!

Of course, the keyword in that headline is "could." New documents "could" corroborate, not "do" corroborate.

The fact that PF called and spoke with social workers doesn't mean that any abuse report he made was substantiated.

It will be interesting to find out when he made this report and what allegations PF made against KB.
It will also be interesting to see what the findings were.
The fact that Baby K. did not remain in CO in the custody of SF is quite, quite intriguing given this abuse report apparently made by PF against KB.

This latest news certainly really points to your conclusions re: a custody motive being at the heart of the murder, MG.

JMO.

I believe we've been down this road.

What parent cannot relate to what was previously recounted by KB.

A toddler with an alleged bump does not always constitute actionable "child abuse."

A toddler allegedly touching a curling iron (hand burn) does not always constitute actionable "child abuse."

It can look good on paper for the defendant, until it's explained by investigator.

It's like a page out of Kramer vs Kramer (Billy falls on play ground).

MOO

 

[Mom24]

Somebody who is said to plan murder would not throw away the planning using a baseball bat then KK to clean up....If the defence pokes holes in KK's story, in the absence of a body, they are also creating reasonable doubt.
Also the very motive of custody suggests some degree of caring (about the baby) so ipso facto undermines itself

Somebody planning to get away with a murder doesn't pull any witnesses in to the plot in the first place. And they certainly don't do it by putting ambien in a cup of coffee. It's more likely to induce a good hangover than kill anyone. Fentanyl? Sure, but ambien? It would take far too much and far too long to cut out the respiratory system. Which suggests a person that wasn't very knowledgeable about drugs, which Nurse KK was.
And custody isn't about love of the child, it's about ownership and power.

 

[MassGuy]

But surely there would be considerable DNA amongst the burnt plastic then?

I wouldn’t expect DNA to be found, but I’m not an expert in that sort of thing.

There’s a lot of lab work being done here.

All that matters is that the prosecution can prove that Kelsey is dead.

Blood splatter in that house, and all the post offense behavior by PF, will do that.

No body murder cases are hard, but PF appears to have made things much easier for the prosecution.

 

[Mom24]

The defence will really go after KK and that is going to cause problems for the prosecution no matter how much circumstantial evidence

Phone records aren't circumstantial.

 

[oviedo]

Exactly. It is an interpretation of this document.

It goes to motive, and appears to involve statements by PF, “the defendant.”

Kelsey didn’t lose custody, so it appears that no action was taken.

I believe the accusations to be false.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/P-9 People's Notice of Department of Human Services Records in the District Attorney's Possession and Motion for Disclosure and Protective Order.pdf

I think this shows the thoroughness of the prosecution - PF allegedly made these allegations to KK who then told LE. They rightly investigated and revealed them to the defense as they should. The last thing they would want is for this to be a surprise moment in the trial where they didn't investigate and have an answer and the Defense did. I think they are also false and would love to know the witnesses. JMO