Australia Australia - Karmein Chan, 13, Templestowe, Vic, 13 April 1991

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A flying enthusiast. - MC would still be one. He would know how to tie basic knots from tying down light aircraft.

If he was a flight enthusiast, which I think MC is, he would have flown out of three possible airports at the time. Bewrick, Moorabin and or Essendon. It's a small industry.

MC would still be in his 50's if he was in his 20's when he committed these crimes. His 60's if he was in this thirties, his 70's if he was in his fourties.

If he was in his 20's in the 80's, he could still be working in the aviation industry in some form.

He'll be charming. A "nice guy".

His partners will have experienced his cruelty, sexual perversions and fantasies.

He'd be litigious and damming about his exes, much like Chris Dawson was /is about his missing wife and the school girl bride he groomed, and then tired of. He'll want to discredit them to avoid being exposed.

Like Chris Dawson, he'd have mates. Not necessarily a cop mate, maybe a criminal lawyer. Someone who shared knowledge of how to commit crimes and get away with it.

Police also say he would have been interviewed in the wide net they cast. If MC had a legal mate, he could have used his mate to help him at the time of being interviewed.

Is there a person, Male, "nice guy", in their 50/60, still in the aviation industry, with a lifelong mate who's a criminal lawyer or a cop?
Someone who talks about their ex, like Chris Dawson talks about his ex wives?
Did he live and or work in the Eastern suburbs in the 1980's?
Did he live and or work in the Northern suburbs when Karmien was taken?
What was their job in the 80's?
Did they have flexibility with their professional work?
Did they own their own business?
Did that business require overalls? Like a gardener, or a full service servo owner/operator, or a motor mechanic?
Did they have a different job when Nikola was abducted? One that didn't require overalls?
Did they have a different job again when Karmien was taken?
Did/do they have a connection with the Diamond Creek/Eltham area, around where the Chan's had their restaurant and one of the early victims was raped?
Did police interview someone that fit this profile in the 90's?
Who was his lawyer?
What kind of food does he eat? Since MC stopped to eat on one occasion, the food choices then could be similar now. Did MC eat cheeses and cold meats? Did he eat deserts? Or drink alcohol? Drink Milk? Eat vegies or fruit? Buying and giving the girls food when they were hostage would have been part of the deliberately constructed reality MC created. Whereas, stopping to grab a bite to eat during a crime was unplanned. He could not have planned what he was going to find in the kitchen. His real food preferences would have been exposed.

I think MC will read these forums.

I think if anything I've said about the food is accurate, MC will immediately start to eat differently and avoid being seen eating the foods he knows he ate during the crime. Someone like the above who suddenly changes their diet, from this year on, would be high on my list of suspects.
 
The Lawyer X scandal currently playing out in Victoria, is adding fuel to my suspicions that MC had help from a criminal lawyer. They haven't named the other lawyers who were also informants yet. Will any of them turn out to have acted for an MC suspect?
Were they mates with an MC suspect?

What favors went the other way? What favors did cops do for these lawyers back in the day?
 
i'm so intrigued by this case.

does anyone have the FBI profiler report from years ago?
- i think he was single, a loner, someone who took these girls to "play house" with
- he's a clean freak/germaphobe
- he has knowledge of police procedures / DNA evidence
- i think he would have been in his 30's possibly 40's at the time, if he was younger i don't think he'd have been so meticulous and if he was older there'd be more girls taken
- i'm not sure about the university professor guy he doesn't strike me at meticulous looking at him
- he knew the families......or if not personally had some inside knowledge of them

I HOPE like GSK this man is caught after all these years. Just so those girls can get peace and Karmein can have closure.
 
Also, I saw this article from the AAP, published by The Age on Sunday.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...f-south-yarra-schoolgirl-20190414-p51dzd.html

(Private or Incognito mode on a browser works to get around the paywall for me!)

Basics:
  • $350 000 reward from Victoria Police for assistance solving sexual assault of 18 yr old South Yarra school girl in 1985
  • She was selling flowers around 10 pm Friday 22/11/85 along Chapel St when two men kidnapped her with a car located on Bray St
  • Taken to unknown property after being blindfolded, bound and gagged in the car; assaulted for a length of time
  • Dumped in Richmond around 1 am Saturday 23/11/65
  • Three males in total believed involved
  • Victim passed away in 2008
Anyone else get a sense this is related?
 
3llecia said:
Also, I saw this article from the AAP, published by The Age on Sunday.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...f-south-yarra-schoolgirl-20190414-p51dzd.html

(Private or Incognito mode on a browser works to get around the paywall for me!)

Basics:
  • $350 000 reward from Victoria Police for assistance solving sexual assault of 18 yr old South Yarra school girl in 1985
  • She was selling flowers around 10 pm Friday 22/11/85 along Chapel St when two men kidnapped her with a car located on Bray St
  • Taken to unknown property after being blindfolded, bound and gagged in the car; assaulted for a length of time
  • Dumped in Richmond around 1 am Saturday 23/11/65
  • Three males in total believed involved
  • Victim passed away in 2008
Anyone else get a sense this is related?
Click to expand...

I’m not sure. Mr Cruel (if it was indeed Mr Cruel who killed Karmein) committed his offences alone; it’s a big change of MO to then commit crimes with co-offenders. Mr Cruel exercised considerable control over the commission of his crimes, if he involved co-offenders he would lose that control. This victim was older, too. He also committed crimes in a very specific way, e.g the things he said, cutting phone lines, entering private houses, attempting to lay false trails (like pretending to talk to someone on the phone, making a ransom demand but not following through with instructions). The police believe the crimes were planned quite carefully and he stalked victims beforehand, whereas the assault on the 18 year old seemed opportunistic. Just my opinion of course. Perhaps it was not Mr Cruel who kidnapped Karmein.

However, when I watched Australia Crime Stories on Sunday they said there are up to a dozen assaults on children that may be related to the three assaults determined to have been committed by Mr Cruel (unnamed 11 year old girl, SW, NL) as well as the kidnapping and murder of Karmein. So who knows? Perhaps the answer is out there, in the forensics of earlier crimes where he may have been more likely to make a mistake.
 
sunnybree said:
I’m not sure. Mr Cruel (if it was indeed Mr Cruel who killed Karmein)
Click to expand...

I have always wondered about the vandalism aspect to her case, along with her death, and the subsequent ‘end’ to the Mr Cruel incidents.

It’s hard to explain but it just seems much more retaliatory.

It also reminds me of another case I read in some news archives, a Vietnamese male found dead on Sandringham beach - the letters “IAN” found etched in the sand near him with police on record saying they were open to the idea there was more to the message that may have been washed away.

It struck me it could be “Asian”, like in Karmein’s case with the graffiti.

In the article below, the person/suspect described seems to have been a solo predator his entire life, but there’s also mention some investigators looking into whether her death was more than one offender (although apparently discounted.)


https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-offender-former-partner-20160412-go4n4k.html
 
I have joined this site because I have a strong and persistent feeling that I know who Mr Cruel is.

The more details I read, details released by police, the more suspicious I get of him and his shady network.

The man I suspect told me in 1994, that police did a general door knock in his area and that he was asked some questions about the Mr Cruel case. He explained it to me like it was a bit of excitement in his day.

I reported my concerns to crime stoppers in November last year. In follow up, homicide informed me that he was fully investigated by the lead of the Spectrum task force in 1994.
Multiple properties were searched. The properties I suspect he used in the crimes were not included in the list of properties homicide told me they searched.

I believe that homicide thought they were offering me reassurance that he had been investigated and ruled out in 1994. Realising that he lied to me about the extent of the investigation at the time, did not offer me any reassurance.

I was informed that one of the reasons he was ruled out was because of his alibi. Homicide also told me his alibi. They told me who collaborated it.

Having extensive knowledge of his patterns and network, the alibi also raises my concerns.

Given the nature of the alibi, I can understand why police might find it reasonable. However, no one who really knows the man would believe it. His alibi collaborator, after living in a commission house, was able to purchase their first home less than 12 months later.

Anyone who knows the collaborator and the nature of their relationship to the man, would be very suspicious that the collaborator would be able to verify his alibi. To my knowledge, they would not have been able to verify his activities on the night Karmein was abducted three years after the event, which was when the suspect was being investigated for the crimes.

Then there is a matter of attending counselling for unexplained panic attacks in both 1991 and 1994. When I contacted crime stoppers last Nov, I was mainly suspicious of the 1991 unexplained counselling. I informed crime-stoppers of both counselling stints.

After followup from homicide, I am now very concerned that the second counselling stint, corresponds with the 1994 investigation into him.

What I have shared in this post are the additional concerns and "coincidences" that surfaced as a result of reporting my suspicions. There were over 30 "coincidences" I had identified when I made my initial report to crime-stoppers.

I am also a victim of this man. I know in my heart and gut that I only narrowly escaped alive. Since then, he has gone to extreme lengths to discredit me and accuse me of being vindictive as a motive for my accusations. The planning and details that have gone into this fabrication is extensive. It is also relentless.

He has very very close ties with law and order. Without these ties and influences, I believe police would have taken the reporting of the crimes against me more seriously. They would have seen the link between my reported experience and the profile of Mr Cruel which they are looking for. A link between the experiences I reported and the notes in his file. A profile and record I had no knowledge of at the time of making my witness statement.

But that did not happen. Police doctored my initial victim statement and then buried it from the system. They refused to record the ongoing harassment, stalking and other breaches of an intervention order. They actively supported the man to harass me. I currently have a complaint lodged with the relevant authorities. The outcome of the complaint is still outstanding.

The law and order connections he has today is the same network he had in the 80's/90's. His network are in more powerful positions today than they were back then. His network is still actively assisting him to commit crimes.

By coincidence, I happen to know a first responder in the case of Sharron. They have retired from the force now. I have shared with them my concerns and the outcome of my reporting to crime-stoppers. They have said that the information I have certainly warrants another look at the suspect. They suggested that I find an enthusiastic young officer, who is keen to progress, who might take another closer look at him. However, Police scare me after what I have experienced.

Maybe there is a police officer monitoring this site who is motivated to follow up.
Maybe one of the girl's fathers is monitoring this site. The one that said he can still remember the voice of Mr Cruel. - Maybe they could contact police and ask them to make a request of me to direct them to videos to listen to voices and see if they recognise them.
Perhaps police could compare writing styles of this man, and his network, with the graffiti on the Chan's car.

I will not provide any contact details through this site. I will not agree to meet anyone. There is enough information here for a member of police to identify me and be able to make contact with me. If you are a relative of any of the victims and you would like the police to follow up, please contact police.

Knowing the man like I do, if he is guilty of the crimes, I am pretty sure he would be monitoring this site. He will therefore know who I am. He will now know I suspect him and his network. He will now know that he has been reported to police for these crimes and that the details I provided are now on his file. I am hoping that this makes me and the public safer long term. If anything deadly was to happen to me, there is only one suspect, and their network, to look at.
 
Con Serned said:
I have joined this site because I have a strong and persistent feeling that I know who Mr Cruel is.

The more details I read, details released by police, the more suspicious I get of him and his shady network.

The man I suspect told me in 1994, that police did a general door knock in his area and that he was asked some questions about the Mr Cruel case. He explained it to me like it was a bit of excitement in his day.

I reported my concerns to crime stoppers in November last year. In follow up, homicide informed me that he was fully investigated by the lead of the Spectrum task force in 1994.
Multiple properties were searched. The properties I suspect he used in the crimes were not included in the list of properties homicide told me they searched.

I believe that homicide thought they were offering me reassurance that he had been investigated and ruled out in 1994. Realising that he lied to me about the extent of the investigation at the time, did not offer me any reassurance.

I was informed that one of the reasons he was ruled out was because of his alibi. Homicide also told me his alibi. They told me who collaborated it.

Having extensive knowledge of his patterns and network, the alibi also raises my concerns.

Given the nature of the alibi, I can understand why police might find it reasonable. However, no one who really knows the man would believe it. His alibi collaborator, after living in a commission house, was able to purchase their first home less than 12 months later.

Anyone who knows the collaborator and the nature of their relationship to the man, would be very suspicious that the collaborator would be able to verify his alibi. To my knowledge, they would not have been able to verify his activities on the night Karmein was abducted three years after the event, which was when the suspect was being investigated for the crimes.

Then there is a matter of attending counselling for unexplained panic attacks in both 1991 and 1994. When I contacted crime stoppers last Nov, I was mainly suspicious of the 1991 unexplained counselling. I informed crime-stoppers of both counselling stints.

After followup from homicide, I am now very concerned that the second counselling stint, corresponds with the 1994 investigation into him.

What I have shared in this post are the additional concerns and "coincidences" that surfaced as a result of reporting my suspicions. There were over 30 "coincidences" I had identified when I made my initial report to crime-stoppers.

I am also a victim of this man. I know in my heart and gut that I only narrowly escaped alive. Since then, he has gone to extreme lengths to discredit me and accuse me of being vindictive as a motive for my accusations. The planning and details that have gone into this fabrication is extensive. It is also relentless.

He has very very close ties with law and order. Without these ties and influences, I believe police would have taken the reporting of the crimes against me more seriously. They would have seen the link between my reported experience and the profile of Mr Cruel which they are looking for. A link between the experiences I reported and the notes in his file. A profile and record I had no knowledge of at the time of making my witness statement.

But that did not happen. Police doctored my initial victim statement and then buried it from the system. They refused to record the ongoing harassment, stalking and other breaches of an intervention order. They actively supported the man to harass me. I currently have a complaint lodged with the relevant authorities. The outcome of the complaint is still outstanding.

The law and order connections he has today is the same network he had in the 80's/90's. His network are in more powerful positions today than they were back then. His network is still actively assisting him to commit crimes.

By coincidence, I happen to know a first responder in the case of Sharron. They have retired from the force now. I have shared with them my concerns and the outcome of my reporting to crime-stoppers. They have said that the information I have certainly warrants another look at the suspect. They suggested that I find an enthusiastic young officer, who is keen to progress, who might take another closer look at him. However, Police scare me after what I have experienced.

Maybe there is a police officer monitoring this site who is motivated to follow up.
Maybe one of the girl's fathers is monitoring this site. The one that said he can still remember the voice of Mr Cruel. - Maybe they could contact police and ask them to make a request of me to direct them to videos to listen to voices and see if they recognise them.
Perhaps police could compare writing styles of this man, and his network, with the graffiti on the Chan's car.

I will not provide any contact details through this site. I will not agree to meet anyone. There is enough information here for a member of police to identify me and be able to make contact with me. If you are a relative of any of the victims and you would like the police to follow up, please contact police.

Knowing the man like I do, if he is guilty of the crimes, I am pretty sure he would be monitoring this site. He will therefore know who I am. He will now know I suspect him and his network. He will now know that he has been reported to police for these crimes and that the details I provided are now on his file. I am hoping that this makes me and the public safer long term. If anything deadly was to happen to me, there is only one suspect, and their network, to look at.
Click to expand...
Welcome to Websleuths.

I hope another (long time) sleuther can offer some more advice. I would just say that you don't share any tip or private details in a public site.

Perhaps your best bet here is having an investigator or journalist to contact you. You should be safe using private messages called 'Conversations'. Please check the terms and conditions on this site to see how it works. You will be notified by Websleuths if you get a PM.

Take care!
 
Specialk72 said:
i'm so intrigued by this case.

does anyone have the FBI profiler report from years ago?
- i think he was single, a loner, someone who took these girls to "play house" with
- he's a clean freak/germaphobe
- he has knowledge of police procedures / DNA evidence
- i think he would have been in his 30's possibly 40's at the time, if he was younger i don't think he'd have been so meticulous and if he was older there'd be more girls taken
- i'm not sure about the university professor guy he doesn't strike me at meticulous looking at him
- he knew the families......or if not personally had some inside knowledge of them

I HOPE like GSK this man is caught after all these years. Just so those girls can get peace and Karmein can have closure.
Click to expand...
Wondering where the clean-freak/germaphobe info is coming from? As far as I've heard, he was just meticulous about cleaning up any DNA evidence.
 
SheMantis said:
Wondering where the clean-freak/germaphobe info is coming from? As far as I've heard, he was just meticulous about cleaning up any DNA evidence.
Click to expand...
no idea, i was probably just talking *advertiser censored*.
 
Here is a report about another unsolved series of rapes in Australia and it also features the Mr Cruel. If anyone is interested I do not think the Golden State Killer is Mr Cruel that really would surprise me in a case where nothing surprises me anymore. I doubt if the Golden State Killer had a passport outside of his military service days. The Mr Cruel is a very nasty unsolved case of course:

The sex predators stalking the nation
 
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