GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[Deleted member 162919]

I said that before that the security cameras at the house and the guard shack being broken made this the luckiest murderers ever.

 

[Stephanus Prudentior]

hmm, people keep saying family wouldnt behead but I want to know what planet they live on, cuz they are few but it happens and dismemberments

anyway......I dont thnk he has a person in mind, its another scare tactic or decoy IMO

but now that we are pretty certain, well I AM, that the beheading was NOT PLANNED..........then it could be family or anyone

it came down to it HAD to be done and family may not have been the actual one/s committing this act anyway if hired out but for some reason it came to it needed to be done

If you dont think a bullet would require beheading someone in order to hide evidence,

what about BITING............HOW.........HOW are you going to get al YOUR BLOOD and DNA OUT OF HIS MOUTH without beheading him?

jsut some thoughts

Good night all!! Glad everyone is jumping on board!

That's a great point about the beheading. lt takes a special breed of killer to take somebody's head off. A gun is much easier to destroy and make disappear, or obliterate the barrel's rifling and the bolt face if you're worried about ballistics.

Cutting off a head because investigators might match a bullet to a particular gun is an awful extreme measure to take, unless you're just a sick puppy. But how do you make sure you've gotten rid of your DNA if they bit you? IF l killed two people and was worried about ANY evidence, let alone DNA, l'd go to the same source a lot of murderers go to, fire. Was the crime scene burnt?

Sorry if l am totally off base, l just jumped into the middle of this conversation and know nothing about this case yet. l just signed up and couldn't wait to throw in my two cents.

 

[watcher9]

Welcome to WS.
No burn scene that we know of.

I can't believe that I found another crime where the male was beheaded and the female was taken. It happened in Wyoming just two months after the Dermonds were killed. The couple did not know the killer until a sex for cash ad on CraigsList. The killer later killed himself after being surrounded by police. Almost five years later, the victim's skull was found this last month in Michigan and just identified which is why it probably showed up in the news.

I don't know of a connection with the Dermonds unless the cuts during the beheading were the same or the Dermonds ever used CraigsList and there is the timing too, but it is interesting.

Skull found five years later of beheading victim who was murdered along with his pregnant girlfriend | Daily Mail Online

Police: Remains found in northern Kent Co. is murdered man from Wyoming

 

[deugirtni]

Welcome to WS.
No burn scene that we know of.

I can't believe that I found another crime where the male was beheaded and the female was taken. It happened in Wyoming just two months after the Dermonds were killed. The couple did not know the killer until a sex for cash ad on CraigsList. The killer later killed himself after being surrounded by police. Almost five years later, the victim's skull was found this last month in Michigan and just identified which is why it probably showed up in the news.

I don't know of a connection with the Dermonds unless the cuts during the beheading were the same or the Dermonds ever used CraigsList and there is the timing too, but it is interesting.

Skull found five years later of beheading victim who was murdered along with his pregnant girlfriend | Daily Mail Online

Police: Remains found in northern Kent Co. is murdered man from Wyoming

Interesting. The man whose body had been found beheaded:

"The Kent County Medical Examiner says that it appears that Oppenneer died from a gunshot wound to the head."

ETA
Also this. (These crimes were done in early July 2014).
re the killer:

""We know that he traveled and moved rather widely in his work travels and we even have information from the investigation at the time that he was moving in the days of his crimes, at that time, and probably was in that general area," Maguffee said."

 

[Jbetty567]

I'm starting to think this was not as organized as I formally believed. I've read that the red concrete blocks were placed in a mesh bag, a little smaller than a laundry bag and tied to SDs bound legs with some sort of Para cord or rope.

The red concrete blocks as I am understanding is more of a landscaping type of block rather than a building type of block. Probably the same red concrete block I used for my fire pit. They are about 20-30 pounds each. And from reading some recent post they are ample in the Ds neighborhood.

Here's the thing. I myself use a mesh bag, probably about 24x24 inches to store my anchor and anchor rope in for my boat. When I get to my location on the water it is nice to have it all contained and ready to pull out of the bag to anchor into position. When I'm done in that spot I pull up the anchor line and nicely wrap it into the bag as the anchor is coming up. The anchor and the line area able to drain and not get mildew because it is within a mesh bag.

Now I like to think I'm clever but I bet I'm not the only one who operates this way with their anchor....

So these items are already readily available on the boat that was used and the red landscaping block is readily available within the confines the Ds neighborhood. The only thing left now is the knife.

Does anyone on here know of a link or a interview, anything which talks about the knife other than it was large? Has there been any discussion on whether any large knifes were missing from say a butchers block in the house. I can tell you that I would not know if a knife was missing from my elderly mothers home. I don't keep track of her knifes and would only be able to tell if one was missing if there was an empty spot in a butchers block.

What I'm saying is that the knife could have easily been from the Ds home or was already on the boat. As someone who has had several boats I can tell you that there is always a large knife on my boat in case we had to cut loose a stuck anchor or whatever. A knife on a boat is a must to me.

If someone was to plan this out wouldn't they have used heavier cinder blocks or concrete blocks? There would be no need to utilize a mesh bag to contain 2 lighter red landscaping blocks? Sounds like a rig to me.

They utilized what was available to them.....

All of he necessary items were already easily available to the killer. The boat is is were the answers are...The boat carried the mesh bag, rope and possibly the knife. The boat carried SD body. Who has access to a boat and knows that particular lake that knows the Ds?

Ok. Now you have me re-thinking this whole thing. If the murders weren’t planned, and it was some kind of situation that went sideways, and the killer improvised and grabbed a knife from the kitchen and the towels and used a makeshift cinderblock anchor he already had, hit Shirley with a hammer that was handy, and already had a gun on him, it could all fit. This means it was someone who arrived and left by boat. But what kind of scenario calls for a person or persons arriving at the home by boat, likely early in the morning, things escalating unexpectedly, the murder of Shirley happening on the boat, and the killer or killers departing and ditching Shirley almost certainly at night? What did they do all day? If they were at the house all day how did they leave no prints? Gah!! This case .....

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Ok. Now you have me re-thinking this whole thing. If the murders weren’t planned, and it was some kind of situation that went sideways, and the killer improvised and grabbed a knife from the kitchen and the towels and used a makeshift cinderblock anchor he already had, hit Shirley with a hammer that was handy, and already had a gun on him, it could all fit. This means it was someone who arrived and left by boat. But what kind of scenario calls for a person or persons arriving at the home by boat, likely early in the morning, things escalating unexpectedly, the murder of Shirley happening on the boat, and the killer or killers departing and ditching Shirley almost certainly at night? What did they do all day? If they were at the house all day how did they leave no prints? Gah!! This case .....

Well..........this would explain why these perps didnt give a crap if she was found..... They did just need time to get away and thats it.........gotta check this one out...Crazy!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Welcome! No burn scene that was ever told to the public and none in pictures we cna see, thanks for the comments

That's a great point about the beheading. lt takes a special breed of killer to take somebody's head off. A gun is much easier to destroy and make disappear, or obliterate the barrel's rifling and the bolt face if you're worried about ballistics.

Cutting off a head because investigators might match a bullet to a particular gun is an awful extreme measure to take, unless you're just a sick puppy. But how do you make sure you've gotten rid of your DNA if they bit you? IF l killed two people and was worried about ANY evidence, let alone DNA, l'd go to the same source a lot of murderers go to, fire. Was the crime scene burnt?

Sorry if l am totally off base, l just jumped into the middle of this conversation and know nothing about this case yet. l just signed up and couldn't wait to throw in my two cents.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

WOW watcher! Never heard of this one! Didnt see this in the news either, thanks for posting!

Plenty of time to get there from GA ! That danged Craigslist!

Welcome to WS.
No burn scene that we know of.

I can't believe that I found another crime where the male was beheaded and the female was taken. It happened in Wyoming just two months after the Dermonds were killed. The couple did not know the killer until a sex for cash ad on CraigsList. The killer later killed himself after being surrounded by police. Almost five years later, the victim's skull was found this last month in Michigan and just identified which is why it probably showed up in the news.

I don't know of a connection with the Dermonds unless the cuts during the beheading were the same or the Dermonds ever used CraigsList and there is the timing too, but it is interesting.

Skull found five years later of beheading victim who was murdered along with his pregnant girlfriend | Daily Mail Online

Police: Remains found in northern Kent Co. is murdered man from Wyoming

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Just reading up on it, city of Wyoming, Michigan where he was from and the skull was found

Welcome to WS.
No burn scene that we know of.

I can't believe that I found another crime where the male was beheaded and the female was taken. It happened in Wyoming just two months after the Dermonds were killed. The couple did not know the killer until a sex for cash ad on CraigsList. The killer later killed himself after being surrounded by police. Almost five years later, the victim's skull was found this last month in Michigan and just identified which is why it probably showed up in the news.

I don't know of a connection with the Dermonds unless the cuts during the beheading were the same or the Dermonds ever used CraigsList and there is the timing too, but it is interesting.

Skull found five years later of beheading victim who was murdered along with his pregnant girlfriend | Daily Mail Online

Police: Remains found in northern Kent Co. is murdered man from Wyoming

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

According to WOOD-TV, the murders happened after the couple found Oestrike on Craigslist and agreed to meet him in a local park at midnight in a sex-for-money deal.

Instead, investigators said, Oestrike killed and beheaded Oppenneer. He kidnapped Slocum and held her in his basement for several days.

SIMILARITES: beheaded him, kidnapped her.........

 

[deugirtni]

Wonder if it's possible the Ds had listed something on Craigslist or some other kind of online selling venue, as they may have thought of downsizing and eventually moving into a smaller type of housing? Although I'm sure there would have been evidence of any such activity on their computer, which SS would surely have found. But if they *did* want to downsize and get rid of some stuff.. how would they do it? Older people like that, I find, are much less of a 'throw-away society' than younger people.. I doubt if they simply would have tossed stuff into the trash. Wherever they may have taken their unwanted stuff to, could potentially have led to a worker knowing details of them.. may have got the mistaken impression there were things to steal, etc? Just random thoughts.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Rethinking on the garage. What can we glean from a possible fact that the crime was simply committed in the garage because there are too many windows inside the house.

If someone drove up, they could see in.

Then how well or long was this thought out?

I guess we can all assume there are towels in a bathroom but how well did the perps know the house

They went inside to get towels, they didnt commit crime inside, knew there were lots of windows

What goes thru someone's head before arriving to commit a crime

IT had to be thought out, it doesnt make sense to me they'd show up after only just finding out about the D's and decide after arriving they need to get out of the house and to the garage

Were they someone who has been watching them for a while and the house? Thinking and fantasizing how to do........well, whatever it was they had planned to do

Clearly didnt want anyone to find him in garage right away and didnt want her found right away

BUt if an extortion tactic, they wont take her back home, theyd have to be prepared to dump her in lake or woods so they clearly came with bricks and blue mesh bag, cording rope, probably knife for cutting ropes and ultimately for decap

But why didnt they bring cinder blocks with the center openings? Seems kind of an after thought for her too but who carries 30lb blocks and a blue mesh bag? Cording I can see if it's always kept on the boat

What if the perps simply dumped the body where it was found just because it was on their way out and didnt care if she was found either, eventually.........Ive always had issue if they didnt want her found, then why dump her in the lake at fishing spots on the main channel practically in 10' of water

Meandering thoughts

 

[Lawdawg99]

When is the next podcast?

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Last I recall Tricia is busy with some other stuff but Levi said it would be about a week and that was 2 or 3 weeks ago

 

[Lawdawg99]

Last I recall Tricia is busy with some other stuff but Levi said it would be about a week and that was 2 or 3 weeks ago

Thanks so much.

 

[Razz]

Ok. Now you have me re-thinking this whole thing. If the murders weren’t planned, and it was some kind of situation that went sideways, and the killer improvised and grabbed a knife from the kitchen and the towels and used a makeshift cinderblock anchor he already had, hit Shirley with a hammer that was handy, and already had a gun on him, it could all fit. This means it was someone who arrived and left by boat. But what kind of scenario calls for a person or persons arriving at the home by boat, likely early in the morning, things escalating unexpectedly, the murder of Shirley happening on the boat, and the killer or killers departing and ditching Shirley almost certainly at night? What did they do all day? If they were at the house all day how did they leave no prints? Gah!! This case .....

A lot of work went into this whole scenario whether planned or not.
And.....especially with SD. Why not leave her too? They/he/she had to get her into the boat under guise of darkness. Honestly, I feel she was deceased before they traveled to the dumping spot. It would be too big of a risk to take her alive.

I still feel killing and getting rid of her body was still part of an extortion scheme. If the beheading of Mr D.
didn't get the response the murderers were hoping for, the disappearance of SD certainly would. If someone was trying to get somebody(s) to "jump over the moon", this would do it. Imo.

 

[deugirtni]

It was said somewhere along the way by SS that SD could no longer do the stairs, nor go to the waterfront (likely due to perhaps uneven ground, and the property's decline towards the water?).. I forget the word that SS used to describe her (suffered frailties?).. something that he said he had discovered after the fact. I'm thinking she had to have been dead before she was put on the boat.

Even if a boat had to have been used to dispose of SD's body, I believe she (and RD's head) were taken by road-vehicle, perhaps to a boat waiting somewhere(?). To me, it was way riskier to arrive by water, since virtually anyone could have happened to go by in a boat and notice the killer's boat parked there for some time, versus arriving at a heavily treed property on a dead end, with empty lots on either side, and the only neighbor two doors down apparently away in Asia.

I'm still really confused about the difference in hair color between the 'grey' which was found in both of RD's hands, versus the 'blonde' that SD had at the time, and both descriptions reported by same person at same time... but yet obviously DNA testing would have been done to confirm the hair in RD's hands belonged to SD.. it almost makes me wonder if the killer(s) took some hair from SD, perhaps from a hairbrush in a bathroom, and put it in RD's hands, to make it appear to be something different than it actually was. (ie a LOT of planning, whether long-term or at the time).

How did the killers know that the cameras were 'out' at the guard shack entrance, and that the D's security system was also not functioning?

Why were no phonecalls from the kids to police made between Thursday night and Tues evening (that is 5 full days) to do a wellness check, if the son reportedly spoke to the dad almost daily? We already know none of the kids called a neighbor to check (otherwise the neighbor *would* have checked, or at least informed police of said request, and also would've had the contact info to give to police instead of police having to track it down in the hours after RD's body was found).

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

THey did go to a lot of work to go undetected IMO...........

I think the lot was so sloped but it had a paved walkway.......they definitly carried her or drug her down to the water it seems........horrible to think about

I remember early on, it was stated that the security system never worked properly......KD made the statement that they never checked people coming and going

My beef along.........none of the kids called yet were SOO close to their parents and spoke daily some of them

Thursday was the last night anyone spoke to them/ Brad to RD and dead by Saturday morning, no food in stomachs........

Equestrian daughter never called about the Derby party and the winner, Sunday or Monday even

 

[Deleted member 162919]

This is why I say whoever did this lived in the area or visited the area and the Dermonds often. Too many things were in place ( the alarm and cameras not working) and they hit the Dermonds on their busy day when they wouldn't be expected to be home due to the derby party. Either this was the luckiest criminal in the world or it was someone close to the Dermonds.

 

[TJtennispro]

The bodies weren’t taken away by car. I imagine that they didn’t need to know that the cameras at the guard shack were out because they didn’t drive by them. A lake is a lake is a lake. A boat on the lake is less noticeable then a random car in a driveway at a lake house. They were even tipped off about the alarm or they knew the Dermonds and the alarm wasn’t on. Most people’s alarms are disarmed in the mornings.

If you wanted to commit a crime are you driving by the guys in the pic I posted or via boat? It makes zero sense to transport a body and head via car when you can via boat. I think the other red herring SS is currently throwing out involves the fact he thinks the Demonds weren’t killed in their house. Unless he is purposely saying that because one was killed in a boat and the other the garage.

I predict that the podcast went silent because SS sent off DNA to Parabon and is awaiting the results.

It was said somewhere along the way by SS that SD could no longer do the stairs, nor go to the waterfront (likely due to perhaps uneven ground, and the property's decline towards the water?).. I forget the word that SS used to describe her (suffered frailties?).. something that he said he had discovered after the fact. I'm thinking she had to have been dead before she was put on the boat.

Even if a boat had to have been used to dispose of SD's body, I believe she (and RD's head) were taken by road-vehicle, perhaps to a boat waiting somewhere(?). To me, it was way riskier to arrive by water, since virtually anyone could have happened to go by in a boat and notice the killer's boat parked there for some time, versus arriving at a heavily treed property on a dead end, with empty lots on either side, and the only neighbor two doors down apparently away in Asia.

I'm still really confused about the difference in hair color between the 'grey' which was found in both of RD's hands, versus the 'blonde' that SD had at the time, and both descriptions reported by same person at same time... but yet obviously DNA testing would have been done to confirm the hair in RD's hands belonged to SD.. it almost makes me wonder if the killer(s) took some hair from SD, perhaps from a hairbrush in a bathroom, and put it in RD's hands, to make it appear to be something different than it actually was. (ie a LOT of planning, whether long-term or at the time).

How did the killers know that the cameras were 'out' at the guard shack entrance, and that the D's security system was also not functioning?

Why were no phonecalls from the kids to police made between Thursday night and Tues evening (that is 5 full days) to do a wellness check, if the son reportedly spoke to the dad almost daily? We already know none of the kids called a neighbor to check (otherwise the neighbor *would* have checked, or at least informed police of said request, and also would've had the contact info to give to police instead of police having to track it down in the hours after RD's body was found).