CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #3

[MistyWaters]

Ok I am confused because that is the only day that I seen they were looking for strays.. Do you have link of another day, or why did you ask question about ruling out???

Yes we were all confused for a time too, until various reports were viewed in chronological order.

The Saturday night reference from an article dated Jan 30th, edited Jan 31st is linked on my post #65, just above. Sunday does happen to be mentioned as well, but no time.

Whether LE still have reason to believe what they believed back then is anyone’s guess.

ETA - As for the Saturday story, it’s difficult to find the original source now as it was copied from one media outlet to the next but here’s an example.
“Mr. Tyner, who is 32, was the manager of the Nicola Ranch, about 300 kilometres northeast of Vancouver, and was last seen on Jan. 26 as he rode out on horseback, possibly to search for cattle in the surrounding hills.”
Disappearance of B.C. rancher Ben Tyner ‘may involve criminality,’ RCMP say

 

[rb63]

Ben was ambushed

What is your theory on why someone would ambush him?

 

[zecats]

They searched extensively. They searched where the horse was found. They searched off road. They searched with drones and air support, on horseback and on foot. There was no sign of Ben, Ben's footprints, or anything of Ben. Assumption is what it is, but I'd say if they didn't find any sign of Ben, they didn't find any tracks from the horse to follow.

"Merritt RCMP Const. Tracy Dunsmore said the search has been suspended due to extensive coverage in the area where the horse was found and because of extreme cold and poor weather conditions.

The large-scale search included more than 19 teams from across the province, dog tracking teams, air support, drones, horseback riders and community volunteers who covered the large area north of Merritt. In addition, Tyner’s family members from Wyoming arrived to help.

“Extreme cold and snow on Sunday hindered search efforts somewhat, but volunteers
“Extreme cold and snow on Sunday hindered search efforts somewhat, but volunteers continued to search drainage areas and steep terrain with no results,” Dunsmore said. “Although the search is suspended at this time, the RCMP will continue to investigate and if further information is located the search can be reinstated.”

After a week, search for missing cowboy near Merritt suspended

 

[MistyWaters]

What is your theory on why someone would ambush him?

Even if someone connected with NR is the perp and the crime was premeditated, I think there’s far less risk to attacking someone in the backcountry where nobody is around than at a ranch with other employees. After the attack, then removing the horse from the ranch by truck and trailer, two opportunities to be observed plus the risk of leaving evidence at the scene. One of the earliest theories I read here was possibly the killer was the person who volunteered to drive Ben to Skukum (sp) Ridge and I still wonder about that too.

Otherwise there isn’t always a motive that makes total sense. I think the list could be very long but if I had to guess I’d say it was retaliation by a hot head for something Ben did that was totally in the right, even if it didn’t directly relate to his being hired for the job. That could range from anything between asking someone to leave who was trespassing or an access dispute to catching someone committing a unlawful act. JMO

 

[rb63]

Even if someone connected with NR is the perp and the crime was premeditated, I think there’s far less risk to attacking someone in the backcountry where nobody is around than at a ranch with other employees. After the attack, then removing the horse from the ranch by truck and trailer, two opportunities to be observed plus the risk of leaving evidence at the scene.

Otherwise there isn’t always a motive that makes total sense. I think the list could be very long but if I had to guess I’d say it was retaliation for something Ben did that was totally in the right. That could range from anything between asking someone to leave who was trespassing to catching someone committing a unlawful act. JMO

Wouldn't he be in back country on horse? So then it would make no sense to go back to ranch and get horse, truck and trailer.. A lot of extra work when you are already in back country.. But possible.

 

[MistyWaters]

They searched extensively. They searched where the horse was found. They searched off road. They searched with drones and air support, on horseback and on foot. There was no sign of Ben, Ben's footprints, or anything of Ben. Assumption is what it is, but I'd say if they didn't find any sign of Ben, they didn't find any tracks from the horse to follow.

"Merritt RCMP Const. Tracy Dunsmore said the search has been suspended due to extensive coverage in the area where the horse was found and because of extreme cold and poor weather conditions.

The large-scale search included more than 19 teams from across the province, dog tracking teams, air support, drones, horseback riders and community volunteers who covered the large area north of Merritt. In addition, Tyner’s family members from Wyoming arrived to help.

“Extreme cold and snow on Sunday hindered search efforts somewhat, but volunteers
“Extreme cold and snow on Sunday hindered search efforts somewhat, but volunteers continued to search drainage areas and steep terrain with no results,” Dunsmore said. “Although the search is suspended at this time, the RCMP will continue to investigate and if further information is located the search can be reinstated.”

After a week, search for missing cowboy near Merritt suspended

Flash forward to April 10th and the Sgt is now declaring they weren’t able to see everything and refers to the focus of the search as a rescue operation.

“....Sgt. Shoihet says the search would resume at the ranch and then police would retrace their steps now that the weather has changed.

“In January, when the snow was covered, you know you’re not going to be able to see everything,” she said. “You know you’re hopeful at that point that Mr. Tyner was going to be found alive and that this wouldn’t be a recovery. That being said, you never know, stranger things have happened, so we have to hold out that little bit of hope.”

The previous search included RCMP officers and volunteers on foot and horseback, as well as in helicopters, vehicles and snowmobiles..”

RCMP resume search for missing B.C. cowboy Ben Tyner, last seen in January

 

[zecats]

Flash forward to April 10th and the Sgt is now declaring they weren’t able to see everything and refers to the focus of the search as a rescue operation.

“....Sgt. Shoihet says the search would resume at the ranch and then police would retrace their steps now that the weather has changed.

“In January, when the snow was covered, you know you’re not going to be able to see everything,” she said. “You know you’re hopeful at that point that Mr. Tyner was going to be found alive and that this wouldn’t be a recovery. That being said, you never know, stranger things have happened, so we have to hold out that little bit of hope.”

The previous search included RCMP officers and volunteers on foot and horseback, as well as in helicopters, vehicles and snowmobiles..”

RCMP resume search for missing B.C. cowboy Ben Tyner, last seen in January

They did retrace their steps during that last search, at the ranch. Not once did they state they were searching (or going to search) back up on the ridge or mountain or logging road or back country. Retrace, IMO, means go over what they searched last time.

Actually, in the case of horse tracks and human footprints, I believe snow would be an asset. If they didn't find anything up there, they already looked pretty darn hard. To my knowledge, they never mentioned even finding any tracks from a truck or trailer either. I believe that assumption was based on the distance from the ranch. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

They did retrace their steps during that last search, at the ranch. Not once did they state they were searching (or going to search) back up on the ridge or mountain or logging road or back country. Retrace, IMO, means go over what they searched last time.

Actually, in the case of horse tracks and human footprints, I believe snow would be an asset. If they didn't find anything up there, they already looked pretty darn hard. To my knowledge, they never mentioned even finding any tracks from a truck or trailer either. I believe that assumption was based on the distance from the ranch. JMO

You’re interpretation of retracing steps is a little different than mine because I don’t think anyone ever really expected Ben would be rescued at Nicola Ranch in January.

Let’s not give up hope that his body will be found. It’s far to soon for a prosecution to take place if LE have not yet found any evidence that he’s deceased, much less how he died. If LE executes more searches of the backcountry that’s a good thing IMO. It proves they applied due diligence even if they’re unsuccessful.

“Another search could commence in the future, Shoihet added, but it depends on what investigators decide...”
Search for Ben Tyner “done for now” - Merritt Herald

 

[Trudie]

They did retrace their steps during that last search, at the ranch. Not once did they state they were searching (or going to search) back up on the ridge or mountain or logging road or back country. Retrace, IMO, means go over what they searched last time.

Actually, in the case of horse tracks and human footprints, I believe snow would be an asset. If they didn't find anything up there, they already looked pretty darn hard. To my knowledge, they never mentioned even finding any tracks from a truck or trailer either. I believe that assumption was based on the distance from the ranch. JMO

People forget the ranch was being searched by LE during the bush search. Last week, they retraced areas of interest, compost/feed yard areas.
This case is not complex, imo.
What do you think?

 

[zecats]

People forget the ranch was being searched by LE during the bush search. Last week, they retraced areas of interest, compost/feed yard areas.
This case is not complex, imo.
What do you think?

I think they started where Gunny was found and searched as described. At first everyone thought Ben had a riding accident. After no trace of him there and suspicions arose, search was thoroughly done at the ranch looking for clues and evidence of Ben’s movements and intentions. The more that was turned up there the easier it became to switch to criminality. The switch to that thinking came as puzzle pieces assembled which was quoted by LE. The recent search at ranch was a follow up or “retracing” as stated.

 

[Trudie]

I think they started where Gunny was found and searched as described. At first everyone thought Ben had a riding accident. After no trace of him there and suspicions arose, search was thoroughly done at the ranch looking for clues and evidence of Ben’s movements and intentions. The more that was turned up there the easier it became to switch to criminality. The switch to that thinking came as puzzle pieces assembled which was quoted by LE. The recent search at ranch was a follow up or “retracing” as stated.

Once rcmp arrived at ranch, they had to look in his home, vehicle, immediate areas, interviewing employees. They would not know Ben wasn’t lying injured in the barn, maybe kicked by Gunny, with her fleeing. Stating no foul play, etc. meant nothing, imo.
I think LE started where he was last seen, the ranch.
Moo

 

[MistyWaters]

Wouldn't he be in back country on horse? So then it would make no sense to go back to ranch and get horse, truck and trailer.. A lot of extra work when you are already in back country.. But possible.

Yes in that hypothetical scenario he’d have already been in the back country on horseback, so taking the horse by truck and trailer from the ranch wouldn’t be involved.

NR is about 12km (7 miles) NE from Merritt and according to this RCMP news release the horse was found “in an area just north of Merritt”.

“Tyner’s horse was located in an area just north of Merritt Monday morning around 0530...”
B.C. RCMP - Search for Missing Merritt Cowboy Update

ETA - Other reports indicate KR found the riderless horse 7 km (4 miles) up a logging road.

 

[ktm44]

Yes in that hypothetical scenario he’d have already been in the back country on horseback, so taking the horse by truck and trailer from the ranch wouldn’t be involved.

NR is about 12km (7 miles) NE from Merritt and according to this RCMP news release the horse was found “in an area just north of Merritt”.

“Tyner’s horse was located in an area just north of Merritt Monday morning around 0530...”
B.C. RCMP - Search for Missing Merritt Cowboy Update

How do you feel Ben got to the back country and in the area of the logging road?

The trapper/tracker indicated in all interviews that the horse did not come from the direction of the ranch and it seems there were no tracks indicating Ben rode out the ranch.

I would also wonder how someone would know which route Ben would take into the back country so their paths could cross.

 

[rb63]

Yes in that hypothetical scenario he’d have already been in the back country on horseback, so taking the horse by truck and trailer from the ranch wouldn’t be involved.

NR is about 12km (7 miles) NE from Merritt and according to this RCMP news release the horse was found “in an area just north of Merritt”.

“Tyner’s horse was located in an area just north of Merritt Monday morning around 0530...”
B.C. RCMP - Search for Missing Merritt Cowboy Update

ETA - Other reports indicate KR found the riderless horse 7 km (4 miles) up a logging road.

Ok lets explain a bit where horse was found... from NR you would go to Merritt, then go towards lower nicola making turn at 97c. Then up that road 13km, turning on another rd for 7km (swakum is n of merritt and highway 5).. We drove to almost the summit a few days ago and cell service was not lost at all.. We went from NR over highway and up.. That was about 16km (10 miles), I would guess about the same distance from top to where horse was found on swakum back rds.. At moment there is still too much snow to do another search.. Figure it will be pretty much gone in a couple week.

 

[ktm44]

Ok lets explain a bit where horse was found... from NR you would go to Merritt, then go towards lower nicola making turn at 97c. Then up that road 13km, turning on another rd for 7km (swakum is n of merritt and highway 5).. We drove to almost the summit a few days ago and cell service was not lost at all.. We went from NR over highway and up.. That was about 16km (10 miles), I would guess about the same distance from top to where horse was found on swakum back rds.. At moment there is still to much snow to do another search.. Figure it will be pretty much gone in a couple week.

That route is the most logical and also explains why the trapper/tracker indicated to reporters that he felt the horse did not come from the direction of the ranch. Hwy 97C is east of the Swakum Mountain.

I don't feel that his disppearance comes from a complex premeditated issue and a couple things still lead me back to the ranch. Ben has always let someone know where he was going and an estimated return time and I believe he did this time as well.

It's been a long time since I've been up that way. Can you refresh my memory and advise if there are pull off/brake check areas that you encountered?

 

[rb63]

That route is the most logical and also explains why the trapper/tracker indicated to reporters that he felt the horse did not come from the direction of the ranch. Hwy 97C is east of the Swakum Mountain.

I don't feel that his disppearance comes from a complex premeditated issue and a couple things still lead me back to the ranch. Ben has always let someone know where he was going and an estimated return time and I believe he did this time as well.

It's been a long time since I've been up that way. Can you refresh my memory and advise if there are pull off/brake check areas that you encountered?

No on check brake area.. That is more towards kamloops in higher elevation.

 

[Trudie]

That route is the most logical and also explains why the trapper/tracker indicated to reporters that he felt the horse did not come from the direction of the ranch. Hwy 97C is east of the Swakum Mountain.

I don't feel that his disppearance comes from a complex premeditated issue and a couple things still lead me back to the ranch. Ben has always let someone know where he was going and an estimated return time and I believe he did this time as well.

It's been a long time since I've been up that way. Can you refresh my memory and advise if there are pull off/brake check areas that you encountered?

I never left the ranch. I think the complexity is finding Ben. IMO, this is murder 101, unless I’ve missed some info (I miss more posts than I read).

 

[ktm44]

No on check brake area.. That is more towards kamloops in higher elevation.

Thanks, I was just curious about where one might park a truck and trailer long enough for a horse and rider to unload.

 

[Trudie]

Thanks, I was just curious about where one might park a truck and trailer long enough for a horse and rider to unload.

KTM, I asked about this once, I wondered if someone could just pull of the road or if on a back road, maybe there was no other traffic. It would take no time to unload Gunny, slap her on the rump & speed off.

 

[MistyWaters]

Ok lets explain a bit where horse was found... from NR you would go to Merritt, then go towards lower nicola making turn at 97c. Then up that road 13km, turning on another rd for 7km (swakum is n of merritt and highway 5).. We drove to almost the summit a few days ago and cell service was not lost at all.. We went from NR over highway and up.. That was about 16km (10 miles), I would guess about the same distance from top to where horse was found on swakum back rds.. At moment there is still too much snow to do another search.. Figure it will be pretty much gone in a couple week.

Thank you for sharing your local knowledge. Aside from roads I notice there’s various mountain bike trails on Swakum Mountain, north of Merritt where the riderless horse was found. If these trails were established by the mountain biking clubs or were existing longtime trails such as cattle, deer trails, I don’t know. I am somewhat familiar with the Merritt area as well and what’s referred to as mountains or backcountry I recall is not all density covered or thickly treed, not anything compared to say, the Rocky Mountains. A lot of the area is rolling, with benches of grassland. For that reason I can also imagine there being trails.

So for that reason, if I’m correct in my recollect, would it be possible for a cowboy to ride horseback “cross country”, not on roads? Because I’m also thinking a cowboy, whether riding for leisure or a purpose, given the option of trails would avoid roads as much as possible. JMO