Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[MsBetsy]

Here’s what I’m so freaking irritated about: Imo the voice is not that of a young person. Can someone please explain this?

I don't think he looks older than 30. Actually he looks about 20 to me but they said he may look younger than he really is.
As for his voice, I think some people sound older and some younger. Maybe he's a heavy smoker.

 

[ab01]

I just saw that LE made that clarification today. This information should have been disclosed the day of the presser. Not good.

Easy for us to say now, But I'm not sure what information they had in front of them at that particular time. Hindsight is 20/20.


Personally I think something has happened recently to completely change the investigation and who they are looking for or at, what that is I have no idea....MOO

 

[fred&edna]

The only thing I have decided based on the recording... This guy's primary (and only) language is English.

PS @ margarita25... Hey, I'm the "group grump" around here!

 

[Falling Down]

This is going back, but from what I’m reading the search began when they were reported missing on the 13th, is that correct? On that day did the searchers search the area they were later found at the next day? I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on whether their bodies were put there right away after they went missing, or were they put there after the searchers stopped for the night on the 13th.

Sorry if this has been discussed, I’m trying to get a good idea of how everything occurred with the search. I’ve been following since the beginning but forget a lot of what’s been covered on here over the past two years!

There was no real sense of urgency on the 13th, the general 'feel' as I understand it was they didn't think the girls were in danger.

heyjudette have you seen any of the initial media reports out of Indy, from that night? I will post them here as a reference if you need me to, they're still up on YouTube.

My understanding is, and part of this comes from family members interviewed on TV, the area immediately surrounding the bridge was searched. Also, the area on the other side of the bridge, near where the "down the hill" was recorded, was searched. People also searched a little along the creek west of the bridge, towards Delphi. Where they were found was not searched thoroughly, IIRC. Searchers went door-to-door that evening, asking permission to search nearby properties. The search was called off somewhere between 10PM and midnight, I don't remember those specifics.

I do remember an 11PM broadcast out of Indy showed a young man/searcher who showed a reporter one of the SnapChat images which Libby had uploaded, the one timestamped 2:07PM showing Abby. So searchers were aware the girls had made it to the bridge.

MOO

 

[karbear1103]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the warm welcome regarding my very short first ever post earlier. I have been a Websleuths lurker for years. To be a member is so cool. I think it was a lot more complicated to sign on back in the day. Most memorable cases for me are Casey Anthony, Lauren Spierer, Skylar Neese, Rhodens, Brittney Wood, Holly B obo.....

 

[Dovvey]

All my opinion..Either they are completely clueless about what happened and the press conference was a stunt to keep it in the public’s eye and get some fresh leads (using forensic statistics on killers to make assumptions on who the person is and “talking to” that person), or they KNOW who did it but don’t have enough evidence yet for a solid case. I tend to lean towards the latter. The raw emotion from Carter was just too intense. He knows who did it, and I believe it was someone who has been very close to the family and involved in the aftermath/grieving, who never would have initially been suspected. There is no way, in such a short press conference, that has been meticulously planned, that the Shack reference was a random mention. There is absolutely some subliminal message to the killer. (I bet they consulted with forensic psychologists on how to speak to/rattle this killer.) Did he return to the scene, as they did in the movie? When a University of Illinois student from China was murdered not too long ago, the killer actually showed up at a vigil for her, shortly after she had gone missing. Very perverse and twisted, but it does happen. Add in the fact that there was 3 days advance notice to the presser, members of community were encouraged to attend, and police were photographing people in attendance...I’m convinced they are scrutinizing their person of interest via that intel and likely other surveillance, as well, and are hoping the person trips up/tries to flee/etc. Nothing stated at that press conference was random. Hiding in plain sight, multiple religious references, the killer wanting to know what the investigators know...I don’t think anyone can overanalyze anything said there. I’m confident they will have someone in custody soon. Still a little thrown off by the new sketch. That audio sounds much older to me..could the new sketch depict a younger relative (who was a witness/false alibi/etc) who they’re now using as bait to coerce BG to confess? Did the older, actual killer use the younger relative’s social media to compel the girls to the area, in a catfish-type scheme? Was the dramatic buildup/reveal of a younger relative’s sketch a way of shocking the killer enough that he’d give a telltale physiologic sign at the conference of his guilt (excessive sweating, gulping, scratching his face, etc). Maybe this is a stretch but I just can’t reconcile the differences between BG and that second sketch...they are too different.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

With it being reported that the families left the press conference angry or frustrated, it makes me wonder if they were blindsided with the info. I can’t imagine them not being prepped ahead of time??? MOO

 

[margarita25]

Bringing a prior post forward with Liberty's FB info.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #4

If you search through Libby's friends, you should find Abby's FB link.

Also, the new sketch has been posted there.

Check it out.

I figured out a trick how to bring forward an old post. Watch this:

https://m.facebook.com/libby.german.3?fref=ts

Log into Facebook | Facebook

Log into Facebook | Facebook

Feb 19, 2017

(Rich text editor )

 

[margarita25]

With it being reported that the families left the press conference angry or frustrated, it makes me wonder if they were blindsided with the info. I can’t imagine them not being prepped ahead of time??? MOO

(Oh don’t even get me started on this.)
(ETA: can you guys tell I’m grumpy lol)

Seriously. This is one big clusterfudge, moo.

 

[PaulaDC]

I think it’s as simple as this:

That initial sketch looked nothing like BG. When that sketch was released, he felt that he was in the clear.

He probably breathed a huge sigh of relief.

That, and speculation that he may not be a local, must have put him at ease.

Law enforcement was on the wrong track, and not looking in his direction.

This new sketch, and the focus on the immediate community, represents a huge change in direction.

They’re coming for him now.

 

[Falling Down]

I don't think he looks older than 30. Actually he looks about 20 to me but they said he may look younger than he really is.
As for his voice, I think some people sound older and some younger. Maybe he's a heavy smoker.

I agree with this post 100%. Possibility BG is under 25 years of age, in faci think it's a strong possibility. The "guys" in the new audio sounds like a young guy.

MOO

 

[pepper 34]

On this media link is a google map of the location where the car was parked at 6814 W 300 N.

Community hopeful after new images, audio released of suspected Delphi killer

From the municipal website:
Monon High Bridge Trail - 1.5 miles - 13 on the Map.
“Access to this trail is also available from County Road 300 in the Deer Creek Valley Historic DIstrict.“
City of Delphi - Biking & Hiking Trails

Access....only? I’m confused. Looking at the satellite google view of that area, it looks to me as though the Monon High Bridge trail only has a drop-off area accessed by 300 N but no parking. And where the suspects car was parked is at the head of the side road that leads directly to the trail drop off area. I’m not certain of this, that’s just what my eyes are telling me at the moment. ???

Does anyone know the location of the much-talked-about parking lot where Libby and Abby were dropped off?

Here is a photo from Google Earth showing "main entrance" and the "second entrance." I believe Abby and Libby were dropped off at the "second entrance."

 

[PommyMommy]

"The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls," he said. "We also believe this person is from Delphi--currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here."
‘We also believe this person is from Delphi’: Police release new sketch, additional information in Delphi murder investigation

 

[PaulaDC]

In all actuality, the first sketch was what he wanted to look like and made himself look like. The second sketch is as he truly appears. His fake identity trick worked until now......

 

[TeaTime]

I tend to doubt things that seem over the top and like a fiction book. But some things from the press conference have me wondering if the killer is somehow communicating with the investigators:
You want to know what we know, we know you told someone, after two years he probably did not think we would take a new direction, you may be in this room...

If the sketch released two years ago was way off it may have fed the suspects ego or made him feel safe in communicating with investigators, like he is invincible and nothing can touch him.

So, like, hypothetically someone gives this alibi a couple months after the murder (and after the movie came out) and Carter is recently watching the movie and realizes the alibi was BS because the movie wasn't out yet?

I'm envisioning a moment like at the end of Usual Suspects when the guy has the realization and drops his coffee cup in shock and it dramatically shatters on the floor.

While I highly, highly doubt this is actually what happened, it's such a weird outside-the-box theory and I really like it.

Honestly it makes as much sense as anything else I've read related to the relevance of that movie in this case (which, to be clear, I don't think had any significance beyond Carter having seen it recently and being inspired or something by it).

Stranger things have solved cases. Like a Columbo moment. Sometimes, they do happen. Perhaps as the investigators continuously read the files to see if they missed something, it suddenly revealed itself. New eyes catch things. Maybe new eyes were reviewing the case. And, such an original oversight would be reason to be angry and sweaty at a press conference. I like it too, but yes, it is made for tv stuff and real life doesn't usually work like tv shows.

The Supt. could have just made a religious reference without citing a movie. Maybe the movie touched his heart. Who knows.

 

[indycindy]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the warm welcome regarding my very short first ever post earlier. I have been a Websleuths lurker for years. To be a member is so cool. I think it was a lot more complicated to sign on back in the day. Most memorable cases for me are Casey Anthony, Lauren Spierer, Skylar Neese, Rhodens, Brittney Wood, Holly B obo.....

Welcome

 

[tmar]

they did

Because the girls were interested in Geocaching, others in the areas where the girls had previously investigated, I guess would be questioned.
MOO.

 

[margarita25]

I agree with this post 100%. Possibility BG is under 25 years of age, in faci think it's a strong possibility. The "guys" in the new audio sounds like a young guy.

MOO

Well I’ll tell ya what, this is encouraging then as far as sketch validity. Because actually Falling Down, I’ve been meaning to commend you for posting about the building.

I’m going to go ahead and bring all your posts about this forward because I think they are VERY important.

—-

@book-thinker said:

“I checked the distance from Monon high bridge to the local grain elevator. It’s 2.4
miles, 45 minutes walking distance, 15 minutes by bicycle; interesting detail from entrance of Monon high bridge trail
a person could easily cross the w300m
road and you come to train tracks that run directly into this property
Apr 10, 2019”

@Falling Down replied:

“FWIW, I drove by there to the place where the girls were dropped off, in August of '17. From Andersons (a driveway from C.R. 300 into the complex), to there was about 2 minutes or so, at 35 MPH (minus the slow down at the curve). Walking I'd say it's about 12 minutes or so. For reference I use the abandoned county building which is between C.R. 300 and IN-25, it's right by the Andersons complex.

A witness said the morning of Feb. 13th, 2017, she saw a white pick up parked at the abandoned building, when she went to lunch in Delphi. Approximately 11:30 AM. I'd imagine a walk from there, to the NW end of the bridge, would take around 20 minutes. It's a short walk from the abandoned building, to the Freedom Bridge where the High Bridge trail starts.

I don't have a link handy for the eyewitness' statement.

Interesting, Street View shows the abandoned building had been razed by August of 2018:

Google Maps
Apr 11, 2019”

This whole conversation is worthy of a reread imo—Grain Elevator, etc, the conversation begins around here:
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

 

[Jaclin]

I now understand why the families were upset and angry.
On Monday, LE introduces a new sketch. Downgrades the old sketch to “secondary”. Implies they are of the same guy but specifically points to the new sketch as the killer. No ifs, no ands, no buts. Later, the sketch artist tells us the new sketch is actually old...done on 2/17/17 from a witness reporting something they thought needed reporting.
On Wednesday, LE tells us to forget that old sketch, the one we have all seared in our brains for almost two years. The new sketch is of BG who is the killer. It looks more like the killer on the bridge(how do they know, how can they tell?) It was derived from new information(from 2017?).

Just a few thoughts: I assumed someone thought the first sketch looked more like the guy in the video. Which, now that I'm looking at it again, it is too pixelated to make out whether or not it is an older guy or a younger guy. The outfit made me think middle aged. So, perhaps stereotypes influenced the choice of the 1st sketch. I think at the time that the 2nd sketch wasn't the face they expected to see on that middle aged looking body in the video. Winter outfits by their nature conceal plenty. Still, both sketches or any additional sketches should have been released 2 years ago. It seems strange that they would point their fingers at the 2nd sketch now and tell us to ignore the first one. We don't know what the witness saw that "should be reported". Maybe the detectives didn't think it was related at the time, that something else shady might have been going down totally unrelated to the murder, but somehow something has recently came to light that made them decide he is the same man as the one in the video.
I did think it was strange that in the press conference they said that they are just getting started. That makes me wonder if their clues weren't getting them anywhere the last 2 years, but something has came up that has given them an actual direction to go in. New tip. New technology.
Someone mentioned they thought they saw a watch on the guy's right hand so that made them think he might be left handed. However, I am right handed and I've always worn my watch on my right hand.
Someone had made a comment about how the case might actually have been hurt by the video still somewhat. The argument is that someone might suspect someone and might have put in a tip, but then they discounted that suspicion because the person doesn't quite look like the sketch and the video isn't clear. Anyone with a suspicion should ask themselves the question, could this person look like the video image if they dressed differently? Also, as I was walking back from the gas station I considered how very different I am than my brother. I have gone on rail trails to bike and rollerblade, both in urban areas and in very rural areas and have done so alone. (I'm not sure I will anymore.) In contrast, my brother likes the air conditioning and probably will never be found on a wilderness trail outside of a couple state parks he rarely goes to but never alone. Going back then to why this guy was there in the first place. This person who did this was comfortable on that bridge and likely walks a fair amount outside. He isn't one of those guys who is afraid of dirt or sweat. I can see him being outside a lot. He may even walk that trail a lot or go to that area of the bridge regularly. He might walk alone a lot, either because he doesn't like to drive, doesn't have a car, or his car is unreliable.

 

[K.jill]

I’ve wondered why the family was told this news just before the press conference.
Seems like if it would be something upsetting for the families they would be told well in advance in their own homes, not made to attend a public conference they may not be staying for anyway.
If bg is in close contact with the family somehow perhaps he would have been forewarned and not attended the Press conference. Seems like they really wanted him there and thought there was a high probability he would show up.