Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

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When the cult idea was first mentioned it seemed “out there”, but I can now see how it is quite possible.
The Hermes Far Eastern Shining was started as Infinity Forms of Yellow Remember around 1998. They would have needed money before then to set up the operation.
I’m thinking the MF Remakel is a made up name like the other strange names and probably not a good lead for Ancestry. Although Sarah can’t envisage her mother being religious, these cults are very organised to find someone and “love bomb” them, think of all the internet phone scams that happen now. Perhaps Marion wasn’t happy at the school for various reasons , she possibly meets this Remakel and he seems perfect, handsome, independent educated , even wants marriage ! Plays on her desire to travel. These people targeted aren’t stupid, the love bombing actually changes chemicals in your brain (kind of like the high you feel with a new lover, so you excuse some questionable behaviour. I could imagine a male persuading not to tell family (they will be negative etc etc)
I just cannot see her changing her name to such a strange one without influence. Perhaps things started out well but a conman always comes up with a excuse to need money!
I believe she did return and withdraw all the money. After that is what really needs looking at in this cult. Although the lady air attendant did not have to leave family, I have found many articles that encouraged it, and also the ridiculous changes of name by deed poll.
Also found a few more articles where people were scarred to leave , calling it escaping etc Florabella Natalia Remakel has probably been dropped for another name.
Could be that if Marion wanted out she may have felt trapped, money gone, having to explain to family, even embarrassed about being duped after being successful teacher? Sarah believes her mother is passed, I hope that not true. If she is in some way with this cult the best thing they could do is to encourage her to meet with authorities and clear things up
I also like to know did any of the founders speak French?
Sorry long post, looking forward to next podcast.
 
Me123 said:
Thanks! The one I found was i think August 1950



Yay! Also Sally linked to here from the Missing Marion/TLV fb page, she was complimentary, which was nice to see.
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Good find .... ah, so that birthdate would match the Marianne living at the same address as Carlo, Marianne REMAKEL wife SCHLESSER, born on 27.08.1950 in Luxembourg ..... my wild imagination was thinking maybe it was Marion with a fake birthdate, but probably not. Ah well, still would like a photo of that Fernand just to see if he is a match for the mystery man in car .... will keeping looking when I have free time. Ooh, how lovely about the compliment re websleuths :)
 
StarrChance said:
When the cult idea was first mentioned it seemed “out there”, but I can now see how it is quite possible.
The Hermes Far Eastern Shining was started as Infinity Forms of Yellow Remember around 1998. They would have needed money before then to set up the operation.
I’m thinking the MF Remakel is a made up name like the other strange names and probably not a good lead for Ancestry. Although Sarah can’t envisage her mother being religious, these cults are very organised to find someone and “love bomb” them, think of all the internet phone scams that happen now. Perhaps Marion wasn’t happy at the school for various reasons , she possibly meets this Remakel and he seems perfect, handsome, independent educated , even wants marriage ! Plays on her desire to travel. These people targeted aren’t stupid, the love bombing actually changes chemicals in your brain (kind of like the high you feel with a new lover, so you excuse some questionable behaviour. I could imagine a male persuading not to tell family (they will be negative etc etc)
I just cannot see her changing her name to such a strange one without influence. Perhaps things started out well but a conman always comes up with a excuse to need money!
I believe she did return and withdraw all the money. After that is what really needs looking at in this cult. Although the lady air attendant did not have to leave family, I have found many articles that encouraged it, and also the ridiculous changes of name by deed poll.
Also found a few more articles where people were scarred to leave , calling it escaping etc Florabella Natalia Remakel has probably been dropped for another name.
Could be that if Marion wanted out she may have felt trapped, money gone, having to explain to family, even embarrassed about being duped after being successful teacher? Sarah believes her mother is passed, I hope that not true. If she is in some way with this cult the best thing they could do is to encourage her to meet with authorities and clear things up
I also like to know did any of the founders speak French?
Sorry long post, looking forward to next podcast.
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Great post StarrChance, all highly possible. Yes, the French connection would be interesting to find out too.
 
Rosewood said:
Found my answer - the reunion is in August at old Pines resort. Might be worth crashing for intel.
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Most excellent find, Rosewood ... worth passing on I reckon. I was thinking if they put up a school photo of the class at the time it would trigger memories, easier visually than in the written word sometimes .... if the teacher that passed on the info looked at the pic might be able to point out the boy, someone must know him. I remember who was a pilot from my class, hee :) Hey, would be good if they could push that reunion to next week, August is a bit of a way off .... ah well.
 
More spontaneous thoughts .... I've mentioned this previously, but starting to really wonder if the villain in the piece worked in the bank in Byron .... is that nuts? We need a list of staff there at the time, either relieving or permanent. Let's see, a bank employee would know there were no cameras at bank, they could do the daily transactions on their own if they had all the details, could do a fake signature - may have relieved at other bank for those other transactions, then left the bank. Maybe an $80,000 withdrawal would have needed approval from someone else, hence the smaller daily transactions. May even be a female employee too. He may be the man who placed the advertisement too, but also a bank employee. Perhaps when he went in manager's office and closed the door no-one was in it, or maybe there was, but anyway .... end of spontaneous random ....
 
Itsapuzzle said:
Most excellent find, Rosewood ... worth passing on I reckon. I was thinking if they put up a school photo of the class at the time it would trigger memories, easier visually than in the written word sometimes ..
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Last year they put up all the year twelve photos from 2008 so I assume they will this year. Obviously most could be different but some would have been there from kinder and may remember something.
 
2.jpg
Just bought the Women's Weekly, excellent article with all the details compacted into five pages. If you're unable to pick up a copy, or if you're overseas you can read story online if you type in Google search: Marion Barter pressreader - Cheers
 
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Me123 said:
Ok so I loved episode 8, like I really found it so interesting. I could actually see anybody of any age joining a cult I think they prey on the mentality of a person rather than an age, so if a 60 year old seemed like they would be susceptible to joining a sect and had qualities like being a teacher, being traditional or old fashioned and if that fitted in with the vibe a particular group had I could just see it not being an issue what age somebody was. Especially if there is a fee to join, money isn’t money.

I thought Mo sounded genuine but I believe that it’s possible he is a master manipulator.

When asked would he say if he knew Marion joined, he said oh definitely ect but I just can’t see that being true. Definitely came across as nice but yeah..

The interview with the Irish lady Anna Fitzgerald I think her name is, I had more questions I wanted them to ask! Like did she have to pay money to them to join, did she tell her family where she was going and that she was joining a group (cult as she now calls it but at the start she didn’t). Did she sell a house to join? What happened to all her belongings from Ireland? Did she take them with her(maybe the smaller things rather than furniture as overseas)? Did she legally change her name and how far in advance if so. Did she have access to a bank account of her own when she was in the cult? Just things that Marion did that there an no answers for.

There was something new revealed by Sally on the Missing Person Marion Barter Facebook page that is run by Sally. She wrote it last night, it said roughly from memory. A woman resembling Marion stole Marion’s purse from by her house with all her ID in it about 12 months before Marion left for the Uk!

Sally said she was trying to get more info on it before she said anything but the police weren’t cooperating but Marion was shown cctv of it at the time and that is how they know that it resembled Marion. This info is on the fb page but I know some people on here said they didn’t have an account.
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I may be alone here, but I don't find Mo believable. He seems to be skilled at appearing to be nice; acting in a manner and answering questions in a way that a nice person would. To me, just my opinion, acting in a sincere manner does not mean one is telling the truth, only that you believe or believe in what you're saying. I have observed people being sincere and lying through their teeth. IMHO Mo is practiced at appearing sincere. I am also skeptical he'd admit to knowing Marion, regardless of whether he did or not. For this cult to connect themselves to a missing person automatically reflects back on them in a negative light. They are obviously highly defensive and will do everything to avoid being under any scrutiny whatsoever. Mo is, IMHO, one of the elite of the group, and if nothing else, reminds me of any number of soft-spoken mouthpieces. His sincerity is a characteristic, not a sign of virtue.
 
Itsapuzzle said:
Episode 9 has landed ... completely interesting :)

9. Sleuth The Lady Vanishes
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For me it is probably the most interesting yet. Perhaps because it has furthered the investigation in real time.

To add to a theory someone posted up thread. The man in the car could have very well been both a parent and a cult member. After all, cult members are supposedly allowed to be out in the secular world. Perhaps in order to quietly recruit people without meeting much resistance. He may have persuaded her that initiation into the group required absolute secrecy and that in fact her purported trip to ride the Orient Express was a way of accounting for the time she'd be gone, possibly going through whatever initiation the cult requires of new members. She may also have intended to put off a decision whether to join the cult until she got to England or Europe. Perhaps her being alone made her yearn for the companionship of this cult.

Unlikely, but I wish there was a database with photographs of all the cult members before and shortly after Marion disappeared. I can't recall, but did Sally make a sketch of the man she saw in the car? Even if she didn't, a photograph might jog her memory to come up with a couple of good candidates. Or for that matter, a good candidate for the woman who stole Marion's wallet.

IMHO, if a cult was involved in Marion's disappearance, then clearly their intent was to get their hands on her money. That would explain the daily withdrawals of $5000 cash daily. However, I believe Marion was savvy enough not to reveal all of her income hence the one bank account (?) and superannuation remaining untouched. IDK, but I really don't believe Marion was the one withdrawing the money. I think it was the person who looked like her, the one who stole her wallet out of her car.

But these are just my opinions; I could be completely wrong. The man in the car may have simply been meeting up with Marion for a clandestine meeting of a different sort. He may have had intimate knowledge about the abuse at the school, and was afraid of being exposed. He may have been a parent, a teacher, another worker there, a former student. That said, he may have also been a cult recruiter who had access to the school, and that she wasn't recruited in England, but home in Australia.

Sorry for the long post, and now adding to it. IMHO, the name Marion chose for herself before she left Australia was consistent with the formula used by the cult and cult members. As in, just pile on a bunch of random names, and there you have it. Whatever comes into your mind, and there it is. As a comparison, I've had two friends change their names; Erika changed her name to Hannah; Donna changed hers to Mary; not, Dee changed her name to Squiggle Dee Overpass Morning Electric. :p
 
TootsieFootsie said:
Episode 10 will feature Monsieur Remakel, the looking for love advertiser.
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Oh my, TootsieFootsie .... I'm so curious as to what they find out about Monsieur Remakel! So curious too as to why the advertisement has led them overseas .... h'mm, what's that all about .... so interesting. Wondering too if Kristina, the brilliant UK sleuth has found some more amazing info for them, such as the passenger list, etc ... the mind boggles at what she is uncovering, so good. Oh boy, I can't wait for Conversations 5, hey .... thinking too maybe could be doing DNA test overseas for the database. So many questions ..... I do hope they've had a breakthrough, fingers crossed :)
 
Pipsissiway_Potts said:
For me it is probably the most interesting yet. Perhaps because it has furthered the investigation in real time.

To add to a theory someone posted up thread. The man in the car could have very well been both a parent and a cult member. After all, cult members are supposedly allowed to be out in the secular world. Perhaps in order to quietly recruit people without meeting much resistance. He may have persuaded her that initiation into the group required absolute secrecy and that in fact her purported trip to ride the Orient Express was a way of accounting for the time she'd be gone, possibly going through whatever initiation the cult requires of new members. She may also have intended to put off a decision whether to join the cult until she got to England or Europe. Perhaps her being alone made her yearn for the companionship of this cult.

Unlikely, but I wish there was a database with photographs of all the cult members before and shortly after Marion disappeared. I can't recall, but did Sally make a sketch of the man she saw in the car? Even if she didn't, a photograph might jog her memory to come up with a couple of good candidates. Or for that matter, a good candidate for the woman who stole Marion's wallet.

IMHO, if a cult was involved in Marion's disappearance, then clearly their intent was to get their hands on her money. That would explain the daily withdrawals of $5000 cash daily. However, I believe Marion was savvy enough not to reveal all of her income hence the one bank account (?) and superannuation remaining untouched. IDK, but I really don't believe Marion was the one withdrawing the money. I think it was the person who looked like her, the one who stole her wallet out of her car.

But these are just my opinions; I could be completely wrong. The man in the car may have simply been meeting up with Marion for a clandestine meeting of a different sort. He may have had intimate knowledge about the abuse at the school, and was afraid of being exposed. He may have been a parent, a teacher, another worker there, a former student. That said, he may have also been a cult recruiter who had access to the school, and that she wasn't recruited in England, but home in Australia.

Sorry for the long post, and now adding to it. IMHO, the name Marion chose for herself before she left Australia was consistent with the formula used by the cult and cult members. As in, just pile on a bunch of random names, and there you have it. Whatever comes into your mind, and there it is. As a comparison, I've had two friends change their names; Erika changed her name to Hannah; Donna changed hers to Mary; not, Dee changed her name to Squiggle Dee Overpass Morning Electric. :p
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Great post Pipsissiway, yeah, all quite possible and completely interesting ... oh yes, a database of cult members with their photos, wouldn't that be handy :) PS: I bet the name Squiggle Dee Overpass Morning Electric has already been taken by someone ... hee hee
 
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