Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

[sparks030405]

Now I’m thinking he did arrange to buy drugs at the Tallow Beach Carpark (using WhatApp - favourite choice of App for buying drugs due to end to end encryption and their non-disclosure policies). Maybe meetup place for homeless campers to interact with buyers? Can probably see the lighthouse from section of beach when walking down from the carpark, but you can’t see lighthouse from Cosy Corner. It’s really steep there and is called Cosy Corner because it’s the only place to go for a swim or sunbake when north or westerly winds are strong causing rough surf and sand blowing in your eyes on the main beaches. So it’s either alcohol, mixed with drugs and going psychotic, possibly died in the bushes or sea (plenty of drug deaths at rave parties). Not sure about kidnapping/Ivan Milat scenario and still think the other two guys at PM just got caught in a rip. Re mobile phone, recently used apps like Google Maps/Facebook can be ‘allowed’ to track your location via GPS-satellite (not cellular towers) in the background even when not open on the screen. Maybe Google Or Facebook handed the route to police, who report back to the government, who in turn report/leak to their superiors -News Corp. So possible Theo’s waterproof phone was last pinging (to Google/Facebook via satellite), in the sea until battery died. I still think the timing of his movements and the timing of low tide is significant. Could take police yrs to charge someone for dealing him drugs without having his phone or body for evidence. Not sure I can follow this forum for that long

So from the Daily Telegraph article and route map, it seems Théo left CM having arranged to meet someone near the oval, then they walked via Tallow Beach Carpark to the beach and up to Cosy Corner, probably when the drugs were taken.

I’ve just asked a friend and been told never drink before taking weed. The other way round is apparently ok. Mixing alcohol and other illicit drugs would be worse per my previous experience/post. I still think he did do that, went paranoid, panicked, possibly got into a fight with the person/people who gave him the drugs, thinking they were going to kill him, ended up getting knocked out/killed. Maybe buried under sand.

From the Daily Telegraph map, he seems to have tried to escape up the slopes, (looking for most direct route back to town?), then either realised too steep, or prevented from escaping/leaving (maybe dealer hoping to wait till drug effect wears off so as not to involve ambulance/police?). If killed (maybe accidental. Doubt intentional) or died from drug overdose, he may be buried in sand. Maybe his mobile was taken off him to stop him looking at Google Maps escape route. And they tried to keep him there till drugs wore off, but that made him very paranoid and led to misadventure.

If he died at last known ping site per map, he may be buried under the beach sand (would be a quick and easy hole to dig) or discarding body in sea, and maybe dealers tried later that day to access his phone to clear evidence, but couldn’t unlock, and so discarded.

My bet is the dealer lives in a homeless camp in those coastal forests behind the coast, reselling drugs at higher price to foreign tourists. Maybe cut with bad stuff to make it go further. Maybe the beach needs machine raking at low tide to find his phone, and then excavated to find his body.

I’m also a bit suss about his mate from Wake Up or the girls he was seen going into Cheeky Monkeys with. Police may know from CM CCTV if any of them followed Theo and was there. Maybe witnesses but playing dumb, cleared their phones, and have now left the country.

Fast forward to 2020 and Theo’s family will be one of many pushing for drug reform in this country. Fast forward to 2030 and weed will be decriminalised, pill testing will copy the UK model. I hope this ridiculous situation is fixed before my kids reach Theo’s age

 

[sparks030405]

So from the Daily Telegraph article and route map, it seems Théo left CM having arranged to meet someone near the oval, then they walked via Tallow Beach Carpark to the beach and up to Cosy Corner, probably when the drugs were taken.

I’ve just asked a friend and been told never drink before taking weed. The other way round is apparently ok. Mixing alcohol and other illicit drugs would be worse per my previous experience/post. I still think he did do that, went paranoid, panicked, possibly got into a fight with the person/people who gave him the drugs, thinking they were going to kill him, ended up getting knocked out/killed. Maybe buried under sand.

From the Daily Telegraph map, he seems to have tried to escape up the slopes, (looking for most direct route back to town?), then either realised too steep, or prevented from escaping/leaving (maybe dealer hoping to wait till drug effect wears off so as not to involve ambulance/police?). If killed (maybe accidental. Doubt intentional) or died from drug overdose, he may be buried in sand. Maybe his mobile was taken off him to stop him looking at Google Maps escape route. And they tried to keep him there till drugs wore off, but that made him very paranoid and led to misadventure.

If he died at last known ping site per map, he may be buried under the beach sand (would be a quick and easy hole to dig) or discarding body in sea, and maybe dealers tried later that day to access his phone to clear evidence, but couldn’t unlock, and so discarded.

My bet is the dealer lives in a homeless camp in those coastal forests behind the coast, reselling drugs at higher price to foreign tourists. Maybe cut with bad stuff to make it go further. Maybe the beach needs machine raking at low tide to find his phone, and then excavated to find his body.

I’m also a bit suss about his mate from Wake Up or the girls he was seen going into Cheeky Monkeys with. Police may know from CM CCTV if any of them followed Theo and was there. Maybe witnesses but playing dumb, cleared their phones, and have now left the country.

Fast forward to 2020 and Theo’s family will be one of many pushing for drug reform in this country. Fast forward to 2030 and weed will be decriminalised, pill testing will copy the UK model. I hope this ridiculous situation is fixed before my kids reach Theo’s age

Also thinking that if/when dealer took his phone off him, the fight/struggle may be Theo trying to get his phone back, and maybe in the struggle it was dropped and lost in the sand and is still there under the sand, unless now found but not reported in media. Last I read about Theo’s parents was that they believe he was drugged, abducted and taken to a commune. Is that their poor interpretation of the known homeless camps behind Tallow Beach or are they thinking larger more self sufficient hippy commune out of town? At first I read it that way, but now I’m thinking they might be referring to the found camp where a homeless guy may have arranged to sell to Theo, reselling his own drugs a a higher price. I know his backpacker mate said he didn’t have cash on him, but I think he did, and was saving it for buying drugs later that evening

 

[PingTheRouter]

As I am new to this page, what is this all about being removed so I do not make the same mistake please? What mistake was made in the first place? All the responses I read seemed OK to me. Thanks, Nick

there is a rule here about only using information within the public domain and main stream media aka the news, i am pretty sure you can't post insider info unless you verify with the admin first so some of your information was not exactly public and came from sources close to the investigation which is why it was deleted

 

[feralflower]

Also thinking that if/when dealer took his phone off him, the fight/struggle may be Theo trying to get his phone back, and maybe in the struggle it was dropped and lost in the sand and is still there under the sand, unless now found but not reported in media. Last I read about Theo’s parents was that they believe he was drugged, abducted and taken to a commune. Is that their poor interpretation of the known homeless camps behind Tallow Beach or are they thinking larger more self sufficient hippy commune out of town? At first I read it that way, but now I’m thinking they might be referring to the found camp where a homeless guy may have arranged to sell to Theo, reselling his own drugs a a higher price. I know his backpacker mate said he didn’t have cash on him, but I think he did, and was saving it for buying drugs later that evening

That is a possibility, that he had money his friend did not know about. And would explain going to the beach in middle of the night, maybe to score a bit of weed for next day to enjoy. It does not appear there were any parties there or any attraction on the beach that night and no matter how beautiful a beach Tallows may be, not much use seeing it on a very dark night with not even a moon.
There must have been another reason to go to the beach and maybe he just wanted a little bit of pot and followed whoever promised some. So this could very well be someone from the camp he went with if the camp is in this vicinity. Would explain the scrub way he took if he followed someone who knew the place. He may have even walked to Cosy Corner on his own later to smoke a joint if he obtained some before heading back home. Seems his last mobile data looped slightly on the beach as if he was about to head back.
If signal was lost then perhaps someone followed him there, or went with him grabbed phone at that point, and yes a possible struggle for the phone like you say, is a very likely scenario.
I have a feeling the truth will come out soon. Whoever was with him that night is not professional at all, not very bright, otherwise they would have hid the hat, taken sim card from phone to stop pings or destroyed it but seems like they simply buried it in sand or left it. I imagine someone who is on very hard drugs or poor mental capacity is involved in all this and as soon as police have sufficient evidence that can be used in court we will know whoever he was with. They probably know already and gathering evidence.
I strongly believe he was with someone, possibly more than one. It is tragic that this young man, really still only a boy and full of life and adventure met with a misfortune. There still is some hope he may be alive though it's not looking good the longer that time passes. Can only hope that if anyone is responsible for this tremendous grief to his family faces the full brunt of the law, even that is not good enough but if anyone is responsible it is imperative that the police put him/them behind bars for others safety at least.

 

[Jenz]

I just can't fathom that he has met his fate at the hands of locals, including the 'campers' in the area. It just doesn't seem plausible.
My reasoning; he was young and non threatening. Loads of tourists would stumble upon camps in this area day after day. Just nothing seems to fit in my opinion, that he would have been intentionally harmed by local campers....just my opinion.

 

[feralflower]

It is hard to get one's head around. We really don't have the answers except that Theo went there in middle of the night and likely with someone who knew the route and possibly met someone in town. It may not have been a local, just someone who knew the area. Theo attempting a scrub walk on his own at midnight seems unlikely especially taking into account he has only been in Byron for 2 days so not familiar with off beat tracks.
I think overall most people are good, be they local or tourists, be they rich or homeless, and yes why would anyone want to harm him is a mystery. But need to remember that almost always there is one bad egg in every batch and this is no reflection on the rest. Good people who are no threat to others can and do get harmed. It is sad. Not everyone thinks the same way, not everyone is kind.
People do get mugged in much more public places than where Theo was so maybe an opportunity presented to a "bad egg" kind of person. Maybe they thought he had money. Maybe they wanted his phone. Maybe there was an accident, then panic if he got hurt as a result. I hope the truth comes out. At this point we have to do a lot of guessing unfortunately and many possible scenarios.

 

[Jenz]

It is hard to get one's head around. We really don't have the answers except that Theo went there in middle of the night and likely with someone who knew the route and possibly met someone in town. It may not have been a local, just someone who knew the area. Theo attempting a scrub walk on his own at midnight seems unlikely especially taking into account he has only been in Byron for 2 days so not familiar with off beat tracks.
I think overall most people are good, be they local or tourists, be they rich or homeless, and yes why would anyone want to harm him is a mystery. But need to remember that almost always there is one bad egg in every batch and this is no reflection on the rest. Good people who are no threat to others can and do get harmed. It is sad. Not everyone thinks the same way, not everyone is kind.
People do get mugged in much more public places than where Theo was so maybe an opportunity presented to a "bad egg" kind of person. Maybe they thought he had money. Maybe they wanted his phone. Maybe there was an accident, then panic if he got hurt as a result. I hope the truth comes out. At this point we have to do a lot of guessing unfortunately and many possible scenarios.

Call me naive, I just don't believe that bad a people there. I may well be wrong....certainly hope not.

 

[crazychris]

Deleted. Messed up quote.

 

[Matlock]

Call me naive, I just don't believe that bad a people there. I may well be wrong....certainly hope not.

I don't know much about Byron Bay but I imagine the possibility that over the years people have been living like hippies/gypsies in the bush pretty happily and haven't really bothered anyone or been in any trouble and they're considered part of the culture and character of BB.

The problem is that after a while the dream sometimes goes into another stage and things start to fall apart and the wrong kind of people from elsewhere move in and take advantage of the area and the generosity and perhaps more hard drugs come in etc. and then something like this scenario happens (if that's what's happened).

The area has probably been targeted more and more over the years by dealers from out of town seeing the backpackers as an obvious and growing market.

 

[sparks030405]

I don't know much about Byron Bay but I imagine the possibility that over the years people have been living like hippies/gypsies in the bush pretty happily and haven't really bothered anyone or been in any trouble and they're considered part of the culture and character of BB.

The problem is that after a while the dream sometimes goes into another stage and things start to fall apart and the wrong kind of people from elsewhere move in and take advantage of the area and the generosity and perhaps more hard drugs come in etc. and then something like this scenario happens (if that's what's happened).

The area has probably been targeted more and more over the years by dealers from out of town seeing the backpackers as an obvious and growing market.

Agree. And like I’ve indicated before, I’m 100% certain dealers add addictive drugs like heroin into to weed they sell. So instead of weed being a gateway drug to the local candy bar to satisfy the munchies, people are getting unknowingly hooked into a system of buying drugs for regular use. Lab tested cannabis needs to be legalised and sold in pharmacies and health food shops to end this senseless policy. I don’t particularly feel that a lone homeless ‘dealer’ should be punished for an overdose. Our law makers/law enforcement are responsible for these deaths.

 

[mussopossum]

Also thinking that if/when dealer took his phone off him, the fight/struggle may be Theo trying to get his phone back, and maybe in the struggle it was dropped and lost in the sand and is still there under the sand, unless now found but not reported in media. Last I read about Theo’s parents was that they believe he was drugged, abducted and taken to a commune. Is that their poor interpretation of the known homeless camps behind Tallow Beach or are they thinking larger more self sufficient hippy commune out of town? At first I read it that way, but now I’m thinking they might be referring to the found camp where a homeless guy may have arranged to sell to Theo, reselling his own drugs a a higher price. I know his backpacker mate said he didn’t have cash on him, but I think he did, and was saving it for buying drugs later that evening

I cant remember, I know it has stated that his friend said that he didnt have cash on him but did he have a card? The reason I ask is that we cannot assume that just because he says to his friend (S) that he did not have any cash on him that night that he wouldnt just use the ATM inside CM or across the road at the new shopping complex to withdraw money to buy anything needing cash to exchange.

I beleive there was no mention if his bank account had been touched that night at all from any withdrawals whilst at CM?

I dont think his comment of having no cash on him is relevant from his friend. This person knew him for what a couple days? Nobody but Theo / Or the person he met with that night and IF he met with someone that night and purchased anything at all of them needing cash payment would truely know this or someone saw him withdraw cash at the ATM in CM or take money out of his paocket at CM.

I dont beleive he has been drugged and abducted. Unless the family or police have info we dont I just dont beleive it. Not unless there is something far bigger to this story (drug trafficking) between the two countries. I am not speculating at all that he was a trafficker I am using this as an example in any scenario of any person.

Theos parents like any parent would have different coping methods. There would be so much grief for them and especially being in a foreign country. It may be their way of coping, wishing he was still alive as they do not want to let go of hope so they want to beleive that he may be alive in a commune.

Like I said unless they know something further we do not, I just think it is their way of coping with the loss and unknown of their beautiful son Theo.

I do not kow them so I apologise for my asumptions and I truely do hope that they have all the love and friendships to get them through this time of missing their son.

 

[Oz Jen]

Hi and welcome to the new members.

To keep the discussion m0ving along within Websleuths TOS, I've copied this Rules section for those who may wish to become a verified insider.

VERIFIED PROFESSIONALS and CASE INSIDERS

To ensure that anyone posting as a "professional" in a specific field truly is what/who they claim to be, WS employs a verification process.

The verification process also applies to "case insiders". Relatives, friends, and others personally acquainted with a victim or a suspect; or a professional working on behalf of a victim or the family, (I.e., a private investigator), can submit a request to be verified as a "case insider".

 

[Via Marple]

Please read The Rules folks !! They are linked in my signature.

Posts have been removed for discussing information that has not been substantiated by MSM or LE facts.

There are no Verified Insiders in this case and therefore all information stated as fact MUST have MSM or LE links to back up what is being stated.

If a member wishes to become a Verified Insider, please read this post by Websleuths owner, Tricia Griffiths and submit your application to her.

No it has not been released by the police. This information was provided by the police to the family and I was privy to that information. This was the reason he went in and out of the grass area 2 times.

Hi Nick, please see again the advice posted previously by sillybilly, who is a staff on WS.

We cannot discuss your info as facts here, unless you get verified as an insider.

Personally (not a WS rule) I think it rather odd that such info should be leaked to the public, without the police or the family's blessing. So until you are verified, I am afraid I have to take your assertions as allegations.

This is not a personal attack on you.. Like everyone here I only want to find the truth, and Theo, for his loved ones.

 

[Sambam89]

When I travel I always have some cash in my room / hidden in my belongings somewhere, so he could have had cash on him I don’t think him saying he didn’t have any to someone he barely knew means anything tbh.

 

[feralflower]

Very possible someone he had arrangements with someone from Cheeky Monkey's already. He knew where he was going before he looked on his phone, he looked like he was walking with a purpose and maybe going to meet someone, so went there on the back streets and waited for them. Surely police would be checking out anyone who left after him. They asked for any cam footage from Tennyson St. which is a clue and he walked right to end of it where it ends then turned back to walk across the oval, then up and down behind the tennis courts.
It is so unlikely he made any arrangements before he went to Cheeky's as he would not have known he was going to be asked to leave at 11.00, yet was already walking down Kingsley before he pulled out his phone. So did he have opportunity to tell anyone he was being kicked out before he left? Did someone say in his ear "I will meet you after I finish my drink at such and such place?" after seeing he was being asked to leave? Now even though it appears he had no money on him, using his card just maybe he had a $50 or a note tucked away for the exact purpose of buying a bit of pot so he was not touching it. It is a possibility. Not sure how Byron is but without doubt there would be dealers hanging around places like Cheeky's, known for tourists coming in. I know in Nimbin it takes no longer than a few minutes to be approached by dealers selling pot. So very possible at Cheeky's someone offered, Theo agreed to get some before leaving and seeing Theo had to leave sooner they went and met somewhere private, at the end of Tennyson or behind the tennis courts. Why go to Tallow beach in middle of night? Was it a random idea? An adventure? Or did whoever he was with have something stashed there? If on foot and selling anything and go to a club (if he came from Cheeky's) then he/she would have been unlikely to be carrying drugs on their person.
I am just thinking of possibilities, not saying this is what happened or that drugs were involved, just that cannot rule it out. There could have been a dealer sitting at Cheeky's and it does appear that Theo somehow already had plans by the way he walked and used his phone after already going in that direction. He has only been in Byron for a few days so his circle of people he knew would not have been big. If he wanted some pot for instance, he could have asked a random person at Cheeky's or was approached by one. They met up and walked to beach.
Well if this is the case then if the other person/people with him carried a mobile it should be an easy job for the police to match up location data. If no phone on them well it could be harder to prove they were with Theo or in the same location.
Now the part that interest me along Theo's route he seems to have crossed the road at Carlyle St. There is an accommodation place right there and looking at close up photos on Google his route puts him pretty much as if he walked part way up the drive. Did he know someone staying there? I have included my rough map compared to the one in the paper and highlighted the area in yellow. You can see he was right there, not just on the curb or edge but seemed to walk in a fair way where this accommodation place is. Other backpackers there maybe that he met?

 

[Whiskers16]

Please read The Rules folks !! They are linked in my signature.

Posts have been removed for discussing information that has not been substantiated by MSM or LE facts.

There are no Verified Insiders in this case and therefore all information stated as fact MUST have MSM or LE links to back up what is being stated.

If a member wishes to become a Verified Insider, please read this post by Websleuths owner, Tricia Griffiths and submit your application to her.

BUMP - Please make sure you are familiar with and following the rules of our forum or you will find yourself with at timeout from the discussion.
Thank you
Whiskers

 

[PingTheRouter]

in relation to the drugs aspect the dealer if there was one didn't need to be in the pub, i know a thing or two about this world and its very easy to hop online and find a local dealer to come meet you to hook up even in australia using and watch my words here they might click something, WhatsApp or wickr all conversations are encrypted and this is how most dealers operate now because the conversation is private encrypted with a key, if it was me i would be glued to my phone waiting for pick up location and what kind of car

*edit* deleted some info which might lead users to websites to buy drugs and other such nefarious things

 

[mussopossum]

When I travel I always have some cash in my room / hidden in my belongings somewhere, so he could have had cash on him I don’t think him saying he didn’t have any to someone he barely knew means anything tbh.

Totally Agree with you

 

[Via Marple]

Rolling back to the facts here.... apart from the recently disclosed cap (likely to be Theo's but not confirmed), and the phone route published by News Corp that no one has confirmed or denied, here is something that the parents just told echonetdaily and posted on the FB page LFTH:

Grey cap like Théo’s found near Tallow Beach
Eve Jeffery
[... ]

‘There are many theories circulating and some of them are plausible. We have spoken about some of those theories before but they remain theories. We need solid evidence so we must give investigators the opportunity to gather and verify that evidence.
‘We do believe that there are witnesses that haven’t yet come forward. We believe that Théo did not spend the early hours of June 1 alone.

BBM

So this is confirmed - there was someone, and apparently that someone has not come forward.

IMO Suspect#1 ....

ETA there is a recent photo of the family of 3 too. They look reasonably positive.

 

[Sambam89]

It could have been in passing as simple as the other boy from Wake Up maybe asked if Theo had any cash on him to help pay for his entry into CM’s, and so Theo said no I’ve only got enough for me and my card mate sorry, to get out of paying for him. I often do then when people try to ask me to buy stuff for them, especially people I don’t know. Got no cash on me, sorry.