Silver Alert CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #22

[MemPat]

And don’t forget two other “perfect liars” who spoke to reporters on tv shows covering their cases, prior to Drew Peterson: Scott Peterson and IMO Patsy Ramsey.

Oh, that Patsy! I forgot how she could look all wide-eyed and sad and tell the tallest of tales. She was scary and thank goodness she died before she took out any more children though I'm not too sure the boy was.......I better shut my mouth.

 

[afitzy]

BBM: Here is what I am currently stuck on. If the Fudge knife was indeed the murder weapon, then FD knew ahead of time it would be messy in JDs garage. Using a knife enough to kill someone will certainly require significant cleanup in order to be obscured and he would have to know it would be bloody and a challenge for removal and cleanup. So did FD bring along significant cleanup materials in his handy little camelback pack he has with him at all times, or just count on using what JD had on hand? He did spend a fair amount of time at her house assuming he killed her pretty quickly once she arrived home 8:05 (when LE thinks he was “laying in wait”) and he didn't leave until 10:25. But we know he was concerned about his DNA being found there so he would have had to have been very careful about where he was in her house and what he used of hers to cleanup.

If he killed her in what he planned would be a “clean” manner but she fought back and FD didn’t expect so much blood, then the Fudge knife would have been used later, in Farmington most likely, for a more macabre task. Earlier I posted about the Annie Le case and how she was strangled but fought back and left blood spatter (described in detail) on the wall and stains on the floor and sink even though it was a strangulation. So blood stains like they were described in JD garage don’t necessarily mean the knife was used there.

Bloodstain analysis has gotten really good these days with computer assisted analysis so different spatter patterns and stains can give a lot of information about the cause of death which LE likely has subjected the garage evidence to.

DA in the HC (where the Fudge knife info was reported) has been lazy lately and published typos and seems to at times be captured by the spell of the mesmerizing ponytailed hawker, and that’s the only place I’ve seen that LE thinks the Fudge hunting knife is the “murder weapon”. Taking it with a grain of salt until I see that confirmed, that LE thinks the knife was used to kill her rather than just used in the crime at some point.

MOO.

I too have been back reading about blood in this case today and am still reading.

Truly the main clue I believe we have is the use of the phrase 'crime scene' at Welles in the most recent AW and the fact that there was blood splatter in the garage from the 1st AW.

We have no visual of the garage splatter so to speculate on murder weapon is tough. Was the murder weapon brought to Welles or was it a found object in the garage such as a hammer, trowel, shovel, wrench or pipe? We don't know. We know there was blood found on and in the Suburban. We know that there was a cleanup effort and possible dismemberment at Welles that took nearly 2 hours. We know there was blood evidence found in the Red Tacoma. We know that FD and MT were 'cleaning' at 80 MS. We know there was blood found on various of the items found along Albany. And I believe we know that there was what looked to be blood seen on one of the bags on Albany.

I too am struggling greatly with the knife narrative and its source, the HC. I can see a knife being used in this case but given that so far as I can tell the HC is the source of the knife narrative and the rest of the press articles are 'repostings' of the HC, I'm not sure I'm willing to spend time on the issue until LE talks about it directly.

Pattisville has a vested interest in distraction IMO as they have no alibi/alternative theory after the 'alibi scripts' were discovered and most likely KM was interviewed by LE. So, I wonder if this knife story is just a 'leak' to distract and is no different from the MT taking the lie detector test and being able to give FD an alibi, which we know to be a complete lie? That's the issue with printing or saying things that aren't true, it makes it tough to believe what is being said IMO.

Is the source of the knife narrative a strategic leak by LE to send a message to Pattisville or did it come from Pattisville along with the narrative about the car mat to simply take the focus off of FD for just a little bit and have folks question the investigation and all the 'missing' evidence in the State's case? IDK the answers to any of these questions and there is no way to answer them now so far as I can tell!

IMO so much of the DA reporting has been thinly veiled releases from Pattisville that given the limited amount of time I have to work on this that I can't give this particular angle of the knife and the later found items mentioned in the HC much more time.

There is so much to chew through in the latest AW that I think I'm going to stick with it for awhile.

MOO

 

[LittleBitty]

If things really had softened between Jennifer and FD (and I'm not convinced they had) it could only be because he wanted her guard to be down.

He's not the first murdering husband to pull that stunt as we've all seen from past crimes.

Definitely. I phrased it wrong. Id guess if she had her guard down it was only because FD wanted her to think she had nothing to fear. I think he had been trying a new tactic the last month or so bc it would appear to outside influences that he was behaving like a fairly decent person. Just one more thing that adds in with how much and how long he had been planning her demise.

It’s really sad. So any small bit of kindness he showed her the last month before her death was all just an act. I guess what I meant was I don’t believe FD is capable of real love but JD was and likely despite all he had put her through and done to her she may have been susceptible to any small perceived act of kindness by him not because she was by any means unaware of who he was just that she was a loving woman who had shared her life with someone she once loved very much.

My phrasing is just not great. It makes you see how insidious this whole crime is. No way you can murder the mother of your children if you truly loved her. No way you stalk and threaten her and cause her to leave you in the middle of the night in a panic. But because she once loved him I bet he used that to his advantage that final month she was alive. Jmo as always.

 

[Bulldogs2]

May I speak for Afitzy (since I'm still up and she's not) and say that's been a big joke around here since FD was recently pronounced "Not a Psychopath" by you-know-who. We're all good with Malignant Narcissist or Murdering Fool.

I feel for you working with a narcissist. I have a couple in my family. One has people fooled; one, not so much. It's not fun, is it? One is a psychiatrist. Scary, huh?

It really was unbelievable to watch and listen to my co workers getting fooled on a daily basis- even the manager- and these are people in mental health! I can see that he could fool the psychiatrist

 

[afitzy]

IMO the best way to "cleanse" the house is to let it go to foreclosure.

Interestingly, a search of 61 Sturbridge Hill on www.cttaxsales.com pulls up a fairly recent tax auction in 2014. Auction was held at Waveny House actually, proceeds going to the Estate of Winifred Ott Osborn, daughter of Charles Ott, retired Pepperidge Farm engineer. The house was torn down in order to sell a FORE new build at almost three times the 2017 purchase price of $1.5 million. IMO, why not let the property run through the State's hands again, via tax foreclosure, as a kind of physical and spiritual cleansing? Funds should NOT pass through FD's hands. Nor through FD's attorneys' accounts. Not even a 1% deposit. Can we really trust any business associate of FD? I'm looking at you Mawhinney. And your "I can't find the moving box" partner. Let's give the community some sort of peace of mind about that house and let the State and the FBI do a thorough search, including tearing up the freshly laid down sod. GF would be out the lien amount as would the honest tradesmen, the banks and any FD "benefactors". Come to think about it, the bank with a first mortgage is probably paying the property taxes, not FD. Peoples Bank? Employer of shady bank officer SM? MOO.

Bravo!

Thanks for the info about the ct tax sale purchase as I was trying to figure out if the $1.5 million purchase price was real of just another FORE game.

First mortgage is held by Danbury Savings Bank. 2 other mortgages by 'friends' of FD and GF $500,000 attachment and 6 trade liens that I am trying to figure out if they are real or another FD scam to keep proceeds away from GF.

MOO

 

[Kapua]

“Right now my life is a mess, and I absolutely have no interest and desire to be in this mess.”

Sorry Fotis, that’s called Karma.

I just finished watching this - only caught the last half, which is good because I don't think I could stomach any more than what I saw. He's so ice cold and smug.

He's in a mess of his own making, and he still thinks he can outsmart LE. MOO

 

[Bulldogs2]

Agree with you 100%!!!

Did anyone see any self awareness from FD tonight that just maybe he might have had a role in just about everything we saw on TV tonight? FD seems puzzled as to why this is all happening to HIM?!? The stmt about being happy with his life with MT and the divorce being the part of his life that he was unhappy with and that he just 'wanted it to be over' was to me one of the more interesting statements made and I think its a statement Pattisville will regret. We shall see!

IMO I saw zero responsibility from FD tonight for anything that has befallen him. I didn't find this surprising as its how he rolls but to see the words coming out of the mouth and FD portraying himself even slightly as a victim is simply too much to bear. I wonder how well FD niece knows FD as she seemed to simply parrot the narrative put forth in FD sister letter and frankly didn't add much beyond what we already know IMO.

To hear FD call JD an 'excellent mother' after everything that was said in FC was also the bridge too far IMO. The claims of 'no arguing or fighting' also were contrary to FC testimony. Not sure why NBC included Ronna as a JD 'friend' its not clear she had any recent contact with JD or at least since JD left Farmington (so, over 2 years?).

Watching the answer to the question of 'did you have anything to do with the disappearance of JD' I almost have to wonder if Pattisville defense will be that FD has a twin and that it wasn't FD in the Tacoma or on Albany Ave but his twin. Pure insanity IMO along with the JD is alive!

The last segment with the AW update looked hastily edited IMO so kudos to the State's Atty for filing the latest AW to make sure that not only additional charges were brought against MT and FD but that the narrative for the Dateline episode focused on the present information in the AW and not further victim shaming and the Pattisville narrative based on pure speculation.

I'm sure we will see more from Dateline as further details emerge and I hope that the approach remains balanced and even handed. I do believe that the last segment with the AW was a last min add to the show, so I wonder how the original version would have been ended? I'm always curious! Sorry, not sorry!

MOO

As a really good psych nurse once told me, “ you’re expectations are WAY too high.”

 

[LittleBitty]

IMO the best way to "cleanse" the house is to let it go to foreclosure.

Interestingly, a search of 61 Sturbridge Hill on www.cttaxsales.com pulls up a fairly recent tax auction in 2014. Auction was held at Waveny House actually, proceeds going to the Estate of Winifred Ott Osborn, daughter of Charles Ott, retired Pepperidge Farm engineer. The house was torn down in order to sell a FORE new build at almost three times the 2017 purchase price of $1.5 million. IMO, why not let the property run through the State's hands again, via tax foreclosure, as a kind of physical and spiritual cleansing? Funds should NOT pass through FD's hands. Nor through FD's attorneys' accounts. Not even a 1% deposit. Can we really trust any business associate of FD? I'm looking at you Mawhinney. And your "I can't find the moving box" partner. Let's give the community some sort of peace of mind about that house and let the State and the FBI do a thorough search, including tearing up the freshly laid down sod. GF would be out the lien amount as would the honest tradesmen, the banks and any FD "benefactors". Come to think about it, the bank with a first mortgage is probably paying the property taxes, not FD. Peoples Bank? Employer of shady bank officer SM? MOO.

That’s brilliant. Since I can only like your post once I quoted it to tell you that’s brilliant and exactly what should happen. I hope that’s what happens because FD and his team/family do not deserve one more cent of money from the Farber family at all.

 

[Bulldogs2]

A Runt, a lying little Runt.
First time I've really seen him on air, IRL.
Very Runty.

That’s funny. I didn’t watch it as I don’t keep television in the house and I just can’t stand his face

 

[LittleBitty]

I just finished watching this - only caught the last half, which is good because I don't think I could stomach any more than what I saw. He's so ice cold and smug.

He's in a mess of his own making, and he still thinks he can outsmart LE. MOO

I always think of that line from Thelma and Louise (a favorite movie of mine) “Brains only get you so far. And luck always runs out.”

In FDs case that will be happening real soon. Those spreadsheets can only get you so far. So true!

 

[afitzy]

It’s called malignant narcissist. He’s not a psychopath . He’s is also a sociopath. Much different than a psychopath. I just recently worked with a narcissist. It was hell. You can never get them to focus on anything but themselves. They really do have a lot of people fooled though.

I don't at all disagree with your narcopath view of FD.

The FD psychopath reference actually came from the FD psychologist in FC who proclaimed that, "FD is not a psychopath" and this statement was surprisingly repeated in a recent motion by Atty Rochlin!

Others savvy in the ways of psych reports explained that the quote from the lawyer in FC didn't fully disclose the entire result of the test which supposedly has 20 total factors and not just the 9 factors mentioned by the FD atty. that FD supposed doesn't have (this means that FD might HAVE 11 of the factors and in fact be closer to a psychpath than any of us could imagine, but we can't answer this question either because we don't know if the entire test was given by the psychologist!). We later learned via online reviews of the Dr believed to have given the test that he has had issues using old and outdated reports or not properly reporting results to the court and this didn't inspire confidence in any of us here. But unless the entire psych report is given to FD there is no way to know whether or not he is a psychopath.

Hope that explains the history on this psychopath issue. IMO its an open issue and FD could in fact be a psychopath and we will have to wait to see if the entire report becomes available in FC or if Atty Rochlin issues a modification to his motion in FC to correct any misperception about his clients psych profile.

We also had a good time laughing about the entire issue psychopath issue as it was used by an atty in FC in support of his clients pursuit of custody of his 5 children that he has no visible means of supporting! In short, we thought it was LUNACY!

MOO

 

[MemPat]

Definitely. I phrased it wrong. Id guess if she had her guard down it was only because FD wanted her to think she had nothing to fear. I think he had been trying a new tactic the last month or so bc it would appear to outside influences that he was behaving like a fairly decent person. Just one more thing that adds in with how much and how long he had been planning her demise.

It’s really sad. So any small bit of kindness he showed her the last month before her death was all just an act. I guess what I meant was I don’t believe FD is capable of real love but JD was and likely despite all he had put her through and done to her she may have been susceptible to any small perceived act of kindness by him not because she was by any means unaware of who he was just that she was a loving woman who had shared her life with someone she once loved very much.

My phrasing is just not great. It makes you see how insidious this whole crime is. No way you can murder the mother of your children if you truly loved her. No way you stalk and threaten her and cause her to leave you in the middle of the night in a panic. But because she once loved him I bet he used that to his advantage that final month she was alive. Jmo as always.

I just misunderstood, LittleBitty.

I agree that Jennifer loved the idea of her family being intact so much that she would do almost anything and believe almost anything to save it.

It does make it so much more insidious that he played her in the end.

I've long pictured FD showing up in her garage that morning and saying, "Let's just have a cup of coffee and talk, sweetheart," wherein she invites him into the kitchen.

He grabs her by the neck from behind and I can't get past that because it doesn't explain the blood.

Maybe she fought and ran back into the garage trying to get into her car.
Maybe he had the knife in his pocket and stabbed her or maybe he grabbed an object and hit her.
The blood spatter evidence should answer that.

It almost seems worse if he tricked her for a month, doesn't it?

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I too have been back reading about blood in this case today and am still reading.

Truly the main clue I believe we have is the use of the phrase 'crime scene' at Welles in the most recent AW and the fact that there was blood splatter in the garage from the 1st AW.

We have no visual of the garage splatter so to speculate on murder weapon is tough. Was the murder weapon brought to Welles or was it a found object in the garage such as a hammer, trowel, shovel, wrench or pipe? We don't know. We know there was blood found on and in the Suburban. We know that there was a cleanup effort and possible dismemberment at Welles that took nearly 2 hours. We know there was blood evidence found in the Red Tacoma. We know that FD and MT were 'cleaning' at 80 MS. We know there was blood found on various of the items found along Albany. And I believe we know that there was what looked to be blood seen on one of the bags on Albany.

I too am struggling greatly with the knife narrative and its source, the HC. I can see a knife being used in this case but given that so far as I can tell the HC is the source of the knife narrative and the rest of the press articles are 'repostings' of the HC, I'm not sure I'm willing to spend time on the issue until LE talks about it directly.

Pattisville has a vested interest in distraction IMO as they have no alibi/alternative theory after the 'alibi scripts' were discovered and most likely KM was interviewed by LE. So, I wonder if this knife story is just a 'leak' to distract and is no different from the MT taking the lie detector test and being able to give FD an alibi, which we know to be a complete lie? That's the issue with printing or saying things that aren't true, it makes it tough to believe what is being said IMO.

Is the source of the knife narrative a strategic leak by LE to send a message to Pattisville or did it come from Pattisville along with the narrative about the car mat to simply take the focus off of FD for just a little bit and have folks question the investigation and all the 'missing' evidence in the State's case? IDK the answers to any of these questions and there is no way to answer them now so far as I can tell!

IMO so much of the DA reporting has been thinly veiled releases from Pattisville that given the limited amount of time I have to work on this that I can't give this particular angle of the knife and the later found items mentioned in the HC much more time.

There is so much to chew through in the latest AW that I think I'm going to stick with it for awhile.

MOO

I buy the knife story, even though it makes no logical sense that FD would use something like that.

When I think “splatter,” I think blunt object, but I don’t think that’s the case here.

The story seems too specific, from where he found it, the account of him brushing it on his clothing, and that nickname (Fudge).

Law enforcement seems to be chasing this down, and they wouldn’t have reason to do that if they didn’t believe it was the murder weapon.

If it was planted by Norm, I do think we’d have leaks refuting that from people “close to the investigation.”

Law enforcement would have a good idea what type of weapon they were looking for, based on the blood evidence and this clothing they supposedly recovered.

I’m guessing her Vineyard Vines shirt had telltale puncture marks.

 

[LittleBitty]

I just misunderstood, LittleBitty.

I agree that Jennifer loved the idea of her family being intact so much that she would do almost anything and believe almost anything to save it.

It does make it so much more insidious that he played her in the end.

I've long pictured FD showing up in her garage that morning and saying, "Let's just have a cup of coffee and talk, sweetheart," wherein she invites him into the kitchen.

He grabs her by the neck from behind and I can't get past that because it doesn't explain the blood.

Maybe she fought and ran back into the garage trying to get into her car.
Maybe he had the knife in his pocket and stabbed her or maybe he grabbed an object and hit her.
The blood spatter evidence should answer that.

It almost seems worse if he tricked her, doesn't it?

MOO

Yes it does. It makes it even more evil! 100% agree with you there.

I was just thinking of what EE told police in the latest FD AW. That FD had told EE that FD had given JD a hug on Mother’s Day. Now this may or may not be true.

But if it was true then FD did it for two reasons: to get her guard down and possibly for any witnesses. That way the narrative is much like this “we were getting along fine. I had dinner in her backyard or whatever a few days before she disappeared and we got along fine. And I gave her a hug on Mother’s Day. Why would I kill her when we were getting along that well?”

Because some jurors or whatever might think because he wasn’t yelling at her or physically abusive in that moment or on the 22nd (the barbecue or whatever) that he’s less suspicious and less likely to have committed a brutal murder.

If he did hug her and she allowed it was because she cared about her kids and her family and was a lovely person just trying to keep the peace and maybe she hoped that his act of kindness was a step in that direction.

Either way it’s just evil. And he is just evil. Everything he does has a motive and it’s planned and it’s just beyond disgusting.

100% agree!

 

[Bulldogs2]

I don't at all disagree with your narcopath view of FD.

The FD psychopath reference actually came from the FD psychologist in FC who proclaimed that, "FD is not a psychopath" and this statement was surprisingly repeated in a recent motion by Atty Rochlin!

Others savvy in the ways of psych reports explained that the quote from the lawyer in FC didn't fully disclose the entire result of the test which supposedly has 20 total factors and not just the 9 factors mentioned by the FD atty. that FD supposed doesn't have (this means that FD might HAVE 11 of the factors and in fact be closer to a psychpath than any of us could imagine, but we can't answer this question either because we don't know if the entire test was given by the psychologist!). We later learned via online reviews of the Dr believed to have given the test that he has had issues using old and outdated reports or not properly reporting results to the court and this didn't inspire confidence in any of us here. But unless the entire psych report is given to FD there is no way to know whether or not he is a psychopath.

Hope that explains the history on this psychopath issue. IMO its an open issue and FD could in fact be a psychopath and we will have to wait to see if the entire report becomes available in FC or if Atty Rochlin issues a modification to his motion in FC to correct any misperception about his clients psych profile.

We also had a good time laughing about the entire issue psychopath issue as it was used by an atty in FC in support of his clients pursuit of custody of his 5 children that he has no visible means of supporting! In short, we thought it was LUNACY!

MOO

I am totally familiar with the CT evals and yes it would be lovely to read the whole thing. MOO, he’s too into himself to be a psychopath. They are easier to diagnose . The narcissistic personality disorders can really fool people- even in the field

 

[Bulldogs2]

Yes it does. It makes it even more evil! 100% agree with you there.

I was just thinking of what EE told police in the latest FD AW. That FD had told EE that FD had given JD a hug on Mother’s Day. Now this may or may not be true.

But if it was true then FD did it for two reasons: to get her guard down and possibly for any witnesses. That way the narrative is much like this “we were getting along fine. I had dinner in her backyard or whatever a few days before she disappeared and we got along fine. And I gave her a hug on Mother’s Day. Why would I kill her when we were getting along that well?”

Because some jurors or whatever might think because he wasn’t yelling at her or physically abusive in that moment or on the 22nd (the barbecue or whatever) that he’s less suspicious and less likely to have committed a brutal murder.

If he did hug her and she allowed it was because she cared about her kids and her family and was a lovely person just trying to keep the peace and maybe she hoped that his act of kindness was a step in that direction.

Either way it’s just evil. And he is just evil. Everything he does has a motive and it’s planned and it’s just beyond disgusting.

100% agree!

I’m with you. The awful part is like you said, one nice move will fool people into thinking, “ oh but he’s changed his way,” and he knew all too well he can do that . Let’s add a new word for him- manipulator

 

[LittleBitty]

I’m with you. The awful part is like you said, one nice move will fool people into thinking, “ oh but he’s changed his way,” and he knew all too well he can do that . Let’s add a new word for him- manipulator

I think that is also another reason GF went scorched earth on him. She had a ton of reasons of course (like that’s my money you took and you need to pay it back) that we all know about but I was thinking Mama Bear mode and I am burning this to the ground and don’t ever think about letting this guy back into our lives mode. i think GF knew she would have to be the heavy when FD revealed himself and the adultery. She was protecting JD who by all accounts was just a sweetheart. GF needed to lay down a big hammer.

I hope she eventually gets her money back and the answers to where it all went. She deserves that. She deserves to have her JD alive but since that’s not happening I want GF to get everything else she wants.

 

[afitzy]

I buy the knife story, even though it makes no logical sense that FD would use something like that.

When I think “splatter,” I think blunt object, but I don’t think that’s the case here.

The story seems too specific, from where he found it, the account of him brushing it on his clothing, and that nickname (Fudge).

Law enforcement seems to be chasing this down, and they wouldn’t have reason to do that if they didn’t believe it was the murder weapon.

If it was planted by Norm, I do think we’d have leaks refuting that from people “close to the investigation.”

Law enforcement would have a good idea what type of weapon they were looking for, based on the blood evidence and this clothing they supposedly recovered.

I’m guessing her Vineyard Vines shirt had telltale puncture marks.

Interesting POV! Thanks!

I guess it didn't make sense to me that LE would strategically leak 2 items (knife and mat) that could be hugely important (or not) that oddly enough are allegedly missing pieces of evidence.

The mat I could understand being leaked by LE to explain to Pattisville that they have solved the issues with the JD Suburban forensic evidence and fit the evidence into the overall puzzle.

The knife, if it exists, I struggle to understand why LE would discuss it at all if it were missing? and to name a person involved with it whose name is Fudge, simply seemed improbable too.

Did they think that some reader of the HC might know Fudge and tell him to give LE a call? Seems to make sense to keep it on the DL and scour the streets of Hartford to find the knife and Fudge. Or, perhaps they had the knife and had Fudge and simply were sending a smoke signal to Pattisville? IDK. If I trusted the reporting I might have an easier time with all this but as you can see I'm not sure what to believe about the knife at all.

MOO

 

[peace9274]

It’s called malignant narcissist. He’s not a psychopath . He’s is also a sociopath. Much different than a psychopath. I just recently worked with a narcissist. It was hell. You can never get them to focus on anything but themselves. They really do have a lot of people fooled though.

I was a psych nurse for 30 yrs before retiring. And in all those yrs it never ceased to amaze me how charming, conniving, arrogant, manipulative, deceitful, remorseless, narcissistic, and most of all how frustrating it was to work with sociopaths.

(AKA antisocial personality disorder: A mental health disorder characterized by disregard for other people, for rules/the law, failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them, are consistently irresponsible and repeatedly fail to fulfill work or financial obligations. And the list goes on.)

 

[oviedo]

Jennifer Dulos disappearance: Fotis Dulos ‘hoping she’s going to show up’