Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[BNA]

Daniel Nations was brought to the attention of local LE (Delphi) for a reason. Was that reason his vehicle or because he was known to have a hatchet? If we suspect it was because of a hatchet then we need to consider the fact that a bladed weapon of some type was used. Who walks around with a blade, generally on them most of the time? Hunters, Boy Scouts, outdoors type people, gang members, drug dealers... not the average teen or guy out for a stroll or hook up in a public park/forest. Also, who from that above group would be able to walk confidently and safely on that bridge? Certainly not drug users or severe alcoholics. IF we are looking at a rage killing, and if he didn't premeditate it (meet up gone bad?), he still had to have been carrying a weapon on him. Do any of our "name not to be mentioned because MSM hasn't named any POI'S" fit in any one of the above noted types? My POI fits the hunter type-he carries a gun on his right side and has a hunting knife. I mentioned a gun because many people believe there is an outline of a gun on BG's right hand side. A YouTuber's POI(s) fits the Boy Scout/Leader type.

If DN was brought to local LE's attention because of the car, then forget a bladed weapon and start looking for maroon coloured vehicles.

Who has a bladed instrument in a wooded area? Somebody looking to chop up wood for a camp fire or party fire.

 

[sunshineray]

Not to mention possible involvement of curious animals and that sort of thing.

I've taken the circumstances of what happened that day, and between the murders and when they were found, and came to my own conclusion this was a well thought out set of crimes. The fact that the bodies were in the woods overnight would compromise critical evidence, namely DNA. Approximately 21.5 hours from TOD to discovery of the bodies, then securing of the scene, taking the bodies away, etc.

Cases I've seen where they were solved by DNA mainly revolved around crimes which happened indoors, as well as those involving bodily fluids, sexual assault, etc. One here in Fort Wayne was solved some years ago because the perp shed a layer of clothing after he shot someone twice during a struggle, so both the perp's and the victim's DNA was on the discarded clothing.

I'd imagine finding DNA on victims left outdoors, where the perp was at least somewhat careful about leaving DNA, might be difficult considering the exposure to the elements, so to speak.

JMO

I've often wondered if LE found out through re-interviews, maybe after Georgia's investigators reviewed and made recommendations to re-interview searchers, that some searcher groups we're steered away from that general

That comment about the trail ending has me puzzled. If they were at the SE end of the bridge, they could have followed the rr bed 500 feet to the farm/house. Here's a screen cap of the SE end from one of GH's vids taken while the crime scene tape was still up.

I'm thinking it worried Abby enough to want to put some distance between herself and the approaching BG. Unfortunately I think it was just an uneasiness and not a terror at that point. An older person would have the life's lessons and mental tools and could act on those. The young so often think they're invincible and don't know enough to know what their instincts are telling them, to act on their gut feelings. It breaks the heart knowing these two girls were just thinking about getting back over the bridge to their pick up point and didn't fully identify or understand the danger coming towards them until it was too late.

 

[moonlessnight]

it has been reported in MSM that the crimes against children unit did a lot of work to retrieve the video. I think that means they found her phone and it was badly damaged/under water.

I'm not convinced that any of them had the phone past those moments that we've already heard. I think she dropped it or he tossed it. I agree that he would not want to be traced. LE has said that they had the phone and that it was at the crime scene or near the girls or something like that, but IIRC LE hesitated for a moment before answering that question. I believe that the bridge and the creek would also be considered the crime scene.

 

[puppyraiser]

Who has a bladed instrument in a wooded area? Somebody looking to chop up wood for a camp fire or party fire.

Or chop wood for a wood burning stove since it was February. But, where's the hatchet on BG? And why was DN brought to LE's attention in this case?

I would hazard a guess that hatchet murders aren't that common. Stabbing, strangling, drugging or shooting are probably the top 4, arson and vehicular homicide are probably still more common than a hatchet murder. None of us know the COD (there are rumours, nothing confirmed by LE) but I believe gun shots would have been heard and at least mentioned online somewhere and there's been nothing.

 

[Boxer]

I'm not convinced that any of them had the phone past those moments that we've already heard. I think she dropped it or he tossed it. I agree that he would not want to be traced. LE has said that they had the phone and that it was at the crime scene or near the girls or something like that, but IIRC LE hesitated for a moment before answering that question. I believe that the bridge and the creek would also be considered the crime scene.

Agree.
Near the crime scene is a big area.
Everything between the south end of the bridge and the place he killed them is the crime scene.

 

[moonlessnight]

I agree. The factory reset of the cell phone could be the key to the crime. why was it necessary? who had access to the phone before it started glitching?

I worked in public school for 20 years. Teen behavior is fascinating. I would venture to say that there are likely teens/classmates that could shed some insights in to what happened that day, but are fearful to come forward. "Snitches get Stitches"..... and in this case, that is a very, VERY, serious concern.

There are some real tough questions I'd have, some that would be very unpopular, but would never throw out on a public forum. Hopefully local law enforcement is savvy enough to seek information from potential sources that would know the details of a student's life.

Very unusual behavior would be the reboot of a cellphone. Why would an 8th grader do that?

Not just urban, but rural schools too include drug use, drug dealing, gang activity, violence, threats of violence, and other sinister behavior and activity that would not be known to the local populace. I know. It was my forte.

 

[Charlot123]

Very interesting. HS students would've had the day off from school as well, no? I was leaning towards BG being a drifter/unemployed simply because anyone who took off of work that day would immediately be on ISP's radar. If they're a high schooler, maybe the same situation - no school that day, so no reason they weren't where they should have been.

Although IMO anyone high-school aged would've been tech savvy enough to confiscate Abby and Libby's phones ASAP.

I would not rule out high schoolers because we don’t know the whole story with Libby’s phone.

I thought that some of potential POIs were taller than 5’10”, but maybe the killer was waiting down under the bridge and the BG was the participant? So, being taller won’t rule someone out.

I always thought that a high schooler was somehow involved, but I am open to other versions as well.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree. The factory reset of the cell phone could be the key to the crime. why was it necessary? who had access to the phone before it started glitching?

It did not need to glitch to reset it. Someone could have persuaded Libby to reset it. “Prove me that you have erased everything. Show me.”

 

[margarita25]

Who has a bladed instrument in a wooded area? Somebody looking to chop up wood for a camp fire or party fire.

Honestly I can’t think of any outdoorsman who doesn’t go into the woods without a knife, moo.

The difference here is that BG was likely specifically hunting for a human, jmo.

 

[Charlot123]

The murder occurred on February 13, 2017--two years and 10 months ago. Liberty German videotaped the murderer walking across the bridge, and may have even recorded the murder itself. There have been thousands of tips, but no arrests.
6 months ago in an uncomfortable news conference that seemed overly emotional and even IMO unprofessional, with references to a movie (The Shack), and announcements of a new investigative strategy, directed at the murderer apparently, LEO issued a new sketch which looks nothing like the guy Libby videotaped on the bridge.

Still no arrest since that time. Given the length of time since the murders, and the confusion about the two sketches, to me it unfortunately seems this case is heading towards cold case status, with little chance of LEO arresting anyone and little chance of justice for Libby and Abby. Does anyone else hold that view, or do you feel LEO will eventually find and arrest the murderer?

I have the feeling that he is on their POI list, but the list is somewhat longer than we think. I also feel that the LE keep tabs on him, even if he is not in Delphi. And that they won’t allow him to move far away unless they either totally clear him or accuse. So it will happen, sooner or later.

I think that the LE are somewhat off-mark with their Shack, though, and the person’s hobbies are somewhat different, but after all, DC lives in Indiana so he may know better.

I feel that the perp’s life is somewhat messed up already. Keep in mind, he was probably not very stable when he killed, so there is a tendency towards emotional fragility.

He will be found, but it will bring no satisfaction to anyone. I think the gravity and cruelty of this crime has made all of us emotionally depleted.

 

[Charlot123]

Daniel Nations was brought to the attention of local LE (Delphi) for a reason. Was that reason his vehicle or because he was known to have a hatchet? If we suspect it was because of a hatchet then we need to consider the fact that a bladed weapon of some type was used. Who walks around with a blade, generally on them most of the time? Hunters, Boy Scouts, outdoors type people, gang members, drug dealers... not the average teen or guy out for a stroll or hook up in a public park/forest. Also, who from that above group would be able to walk confidently and safely on that bridge? Certainly not drug users or severe alcoholics. IF we are looking at a rage killing, and if he didn't premeditate it (meet up gone bad?), he still had to have been carrying a weapon on him. Do any of our "name not to be mentioned because MSM hasn't named any POI'S" fit in any one of the above noted types? My POI fits the hunter type-he carries a gun on his right side and has a hunting knife. I mentioned a gun because many people believe there is an outline of a gun on BG's right hand side. A YouTuber's POI(s) fits the Boy Scout/Leader type.

If DN was brought to local LE's attention because of the car, then forget a bladed weapon and start looking for maroon coloured vehicles.

I think there was a bladed weapon. I also believe that it was of the type legal in the US.

Here is a general forum on bladed weapons


BladeForums.com

I constantly think that it might have been a katana. Why I feel that the person likes Japanese martial arts and culture is beyond my control. Maybe, because drawings of women on bridges are so common and attractive in Japanese art.

 

[Charlot123]

It suddenly hit me. What if the Shack contains several hints? Religious and something else? Not the structure, more like a nickname? Something that could be transparent for the perpetrator.

 

[busymcmoody]

I think they know who it is and are building a case. Maybe overly optimistic but absence of further appeals leads me to think this. MOO.

I'm with you. And I don't think it's overly optimistic.
I also don't think that the PC was unprofessional. It was heartfelt and who knows what Carter intended with the reference to The Shack. We'll know when this has been sold. And I firmly believe it will be solved. I think they are closer than it may seem.

 

[busymcmoody]

Maybe. Depends if he saw it. Maybe he did not see the phone if Libby was disguising her movement in the sweep that captured him.

Later he might have been loath to take the phone due to forensic tracking. MOO doing nothing about the phone seems in line with the rest of the crime, he let luck, speed and surprise cover him.

The phone has been a puzzle to me. Even if he didn't want to take the phone with him, why not throw it in the creek where it's deeper?

ETA - Just saw that other people said the same thing.

 

[busymcmoody]

Didn’t have time. Needed to get out of dodge ASAP. (MOO)

If it's true that he cleaned up the crime scene then he would have had time to toss the phone into the creek. MOO.

 

[busymcmoody]

I agree. The factory reset of the cell phone could be the key to the crime. why was it necessary? who had access to the phone before it started glitching?

I've also been wondering why the girls persistently asked Kelsi to give them a ride to the bridge. They asked a couple of times before Kelsi caved. I have forgotten what it is like to be a teenager that age but wouldn't have they given up at some point? Or did they know that Kelsi would give in eventually? It's just a little weird that they asked several times.

 

[tresir2012]

It did not need to glitch to reset it. Someone could have persuaded Libby to reset it. “Prove me that you have erased everything. Show me.”

I think you could be right. If someone Libby knew told her to reset her phone after arranging to meet her, then he would not need to take the phone. Someone maybe that LE were already suspicious of contacting an underage girl perhaps?

So Libby taped him approaching because she wanted to record him and what he said to them to have proof.

MOO

 

[tresir2012]

If it's true that he cleaned up the crime scene then he would have had time to toss the phone into the creek. MOO.

I also think he could have tossed it in the creek based on the searching of the creek seen in the helicopter footage. Or tossed it out of his car along Bicycle Bridge Road because of the search there.

 

[Charlot123]

I think you could be right. If someone Libby knew told her to reset her phone after arranging to meet her, then he would not need to take the phone. Someone maybe that LE were already suspicious of contacting an underage girl perhaps?

So Libby taped him approaching because she wanted to record him and what he said to them to have proof.

MOO

And the girls being teenagers, think of who one of them could fall for? A very popular high-schooler, I think. She did not need to make any threats to him, btw. His own fear of future problems in career or college admission could have been enough to prompt a crime.

 

[tresir2012]

Number of murder victims in the United States in 2018, by weapon

Number of murder victims
Handguns 6,603
Firearms, type not stated 2,963
Knives or cutting instruments 1,515
Other weapons or weapons not stated 900
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)* 672
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 443
Rifles 297
Shotguns 235
Other guns 167
Asphyxiation 90
Narcotics 78
Fire 72
Strangulation 70
Drowning 9
Poison 5
Explosives 4

This is a list of murder weapons. Knives or cutting weapon come second to handguns and firearms. Strangulation and drowning are a long way down.

Source

Murder - number of victims by weapons used | Statista