IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[Medstudies]

I had cataracts at age 48 that were likely caused by long-term use of cortico-steroidal inhalers for asthma. Twenty years ago, pharmaceutical warning for early cataract development was rare - less than 1% of patients using these inhaled cortico-steroids. Incidence of early cataracts related to the inhalers has significantly increased.

https://www.webmd.com/asthma/news/20030917/inhaled-steroids-cataract

Thanks, This is my actual line of work, yes there are secondary causes of early cataract development. I can talk all day long about phacoemulsification, posterior capsulotomy, A-scans, IOL measurements and which methodology results in optimal outcome.

eta: I just rechecked my post and I did preface my comment with “generally”. Anyway,

and of course I’m not verified so there’s that...

The point I tried and failed to make was that his attorney has not mentioned him having been diagnosed with nuclear sclerotic/cortical cataract or that he was suffering from any type of temporary or chronic visual impairment.

Sorry, - imma going to go sit in a corner now

 

[Montrealaise]

I call people like that arrogant. And yes, I do think SA is arrogant, narcissistic and a dolt. They are so full of themselves. When you call them out on it, they say YOU have the problem. It is infuriating!

That description would explain his numerous tickets for not wearing a seat belt. "Nobody tells ME what to do!"

 

[neesaki]

This is JMOO but it's possible the "software issues" that Winkleman noted could simply be that the camera records in stop motion rather than 100% real time. IOW, the camera may take a picture every couple of seconds and when run in sequence you see what happened but the time is compressed. Which explains the time gap.

There's no way the prosecution would conceal anything that helps SA's defense so IMO it's the format of the camera and not any kind of editing or erasing a few seconds. Again, that would not help the prosecution and if it was found that they manipulated the video there'd be hell to pay - and probably another lawsuit by the parents. MOO.

Oh, I agree. Sorry but I didn’t intend to imply they were concealing evidence from the defense. Just that they probably only allowed clips of the video to be released to CBS to view. I would be surprised if the media was allowed to see the entire video, as some of it will only be released during trial if it goes to trial. JMO

 

[IceIce9]

I hear you, but I've had a kid jump off a sofa right beside me, and another time one put markers all up and down her arm sitting right beside me coloring. My son-in-law not pleased. I was distracted coloring. Lol
I feel like even if you're vigilant 24/7 you can still get 'down time'. That's why it can be overwhelming,
I now believe the gpa is amiss, though, because he didn't follow reasonable safety rules.
Now does he have ADHD, health issues, or alcohol issues (probably since he refused a breathalyzer)? Its said on MSM he's colorblind too. Hard to say.
I think everyone (99%) of people believe he didn't kill his granddaughter on purpose, though.
DOES IT GIVE HIM A PASS? The laws will decide.

There is no comparison between a child jumping off a sofa while you are distracted and purposely holding a child out a window she couldn’t reach on her own.

And the “colorblind” excuse doesn’t hold water, IMO, because he would have felt the breeze. Besides, according to the video he bent forward and leaned forward twice. He would have banged his head on the glass.

 

[IceIce9]

I would like to think I would forgive him. Blaming someone isn’t going to bring um back. Forgiveness is an important part of healing. Moo

But if the person denied any blame, coming up with one ridiculous excuse after another?

 

[MsFacetious]

Winkleman Website, w App for Cruise Ship Injuries
At lipcon.com homepage, scroll down to see the firm's handy dandy app for your phone, available for downloading BEFORE your cruise. Did parents download app before their cruise?

"Download Our Free Cruise Ship Injury App
Our legal team has developed a unique iPhone and Android-compatible application designed to help you when you need a maritime lawyer the most. Download our exclusive application and bring it with you on your smartphone or tablet on your next cruise vacation. Our app allows you to easily store and retain everything you might need to present to a lawyer:

• Capture and record data and photos about your accident or injuries

• Input and track injury-related expenses

• Review incident response checklists to help you in a cruise accident

• Find the closest medical facility

• Place Skype calls from your device if you are injured at sea

• Submit a free case evaluation form to our team.

Designed and launched exclusively by our firm, the app offers every feature you need if you are injured on your next cruise ship excursion – even a built-in flashlight if you are caught in the dark. Download it for free today." bbm.
Maritime Injury Attorney | Miami Cruise Accident Lawyers | LMAW, P.A

How can this possibly be legal?

Who would want to go if they felt the need to have that app first?!

Like the police it certainly could've been a tragic accident but IMO the camera caught the moment Chloe was put in harms way by stupidity. That's what the jury will see as well. The camera will make the decision easy.

I don’t think anything will make this decision easy for this jury. However I think they will have the adventure of having video which will help them be more sure of their choice.

Bringing this over from previous thread. I'm still reading this. Interesting that so many people mention that Grandpa was holding the toddler outside the open window.

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

I also found the first post and last few posts of page 6 were enlightening.

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

I believe the first, early reports rather than what has been put by the attorney. I think she was held outside the window, it's on video, and the only explanation they can come up with is he thought there was glass - I guess the glass would magically appear outside the window then?
JMO

This sound similar to people who put their baby in a car seat but don’t buckle.
I always wonder if they expect the seat to go tentacles to grip the child’s in an accident?

 

[they'll get you]

Thanks, This is my actual line of work, yes there are secondary causes of early cataract development. I can talk all day long about phacoemulsification, posterior capsulotomy, A-scans, IOL measurements and which methodology results in optimal outcome.

eta: I just rechecked my post and I did preface my comment with “generally”. Anyway,

and of course I’m not verified so there’s that...

The point I tried and failed to make was that his attorney has not mentioned him having been diagnosed with nuclear sclerotic/cortical cataract or that he was suffering from any type of temporary or chronic visual impairment.

Sorry, - imma going to go sit in a corner now

I respect your knowledge Medstudies, do you know much about colorblindness and seeing blue/green glass compared to clear or nothing?
In regards to this case this interests me greatly.
I had an electrician working and he asked me to come and confirm the color or the wires he was working on. Yikes!

 

[they'll get you]

I have opened them myself. The only "bar" I have seen is the wooden handrail that is in front of the windows

We now have so many stories about what happened that day - he lifted her up to bang on the window, he is colorblind and didn't see that the window was open, she squirmed from his grasp, plus the reporters description of the video they were allowed to see -
from the reporter - up and over the railing - IMO that means she was held outside of the railing not on the railing itself - with one arm because his other arm was checking for the glass.

The video that CBS News saw, and I saw myself, appears to show you holding Chloe above the railing and over the railing ... I have to think a juror who watches that may think, 'That was reckless,'" Begnaud said.
Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor

I'm trying to envisage if Chloe could have been sat on the rail with her feet on the window ledge and if the height of an 18 mth old was big enough to sit like that?
If she was in this position when GF leaned forward she was then able to stand up and then fell forward with this motion.

Thinking out loud.

 

[10ofRods]

@they'll get you . Thx for pix.
Pic #1 = squat; #2 = kneel/squat. Can he get up easily & quickly to grab a toddler? But based on window height pix, he could not have been squatting or kneeling, when she went thru window.

In pic #2, our little Elsa fan in a dress w hem draping on sidewalk?
A face plant in the making, on concrete yet.
Here maybe younger than 18 mo? She's a toddler.
Not Scarlett O'Hara who can lift front of long, floor-skimming skirt & avoid tripping on extra fabric.

Who puts toddler in dress like that, then lets toddler go outside? IDK. Well, maybe not G'pa's idea.

The point about talking about squatting is about the Road Not Traveled. No one is saying he squatted.

A careful adult does squat with a child in a new setting (heights or not) in order to view hazards (there are many) from a child's perspective. Stairs may not be as visible from 2.5 feet off the floor. Outlets may not be visible. Sheer drop offs can be assessed and avoided (and if Chloe had remained on the floor, she'd still be alive since the windows at floor level did not open - there's a reason for that).

I thought the trailing dress was odd too but I see it rather often at amusement parks. I guess people think toddlers are durable.

 

[Medstudies]

I respect your knowledge Medstudies, do you know much about colorblindness and seeing blue/green glass compared to clear or nothing?
In regards to this case this interests me greatly.
I had an electrician working and he asked me to come and confirm the color or the wires he was working on. Yikes!

Yikes indeed! Certainly it would boil down to his particular level of severity but as a rule, people with color deficiencies have been encouraged to steer away from electrical occupations- particularly lineman work, for obvious reasons.

A mistake, in most cases would just be mismatched socks, his though could potentially be lethal. I have had a few patients over the years who adapted well, but in those cases they all depended on labeled wires. (A few now have depended on Award-Winning EnChroma® Color Blind Glasseswith the labeling)

in the case of SA, (generally speaking) and others with color vision defects, they should still be capable of ascertaining the difference between this particular open window and the adjoining closed tinted windows. Why? Look at the images and you’ll notice the scattered glare that clearly bounces off the closed windows due to the refractive property of glass. (The speed of light changes which causes the scatter halos.) It’s a clue we all pick up on. ( If we are mindful and take even a second to observe our surroundings. You know prior to leaning out a high window....)

fun fact: up until modern history there was no word for the color blue. And there is a tribe in Africa that still doesn’t have a name for the color blue - and they cannot see it. - Not for pathological reason but simply cultural. The sky is simply the sky.

 

[jeena]

That description would explain his numerous tickets for not wearing a seat belt. "Nobody tells ME what to do!"

SA's comment regarding RC not having any signage warning not to go on the railing, otherwise he would have never done it doesn't sound very sincere.
We know he was well aware of the seat belt law with all the tickets he was issued, yet he chose to break the law over and over again anyway!

 

[oviedo]

I'm trying to envisage if Chloe could have been sat on the rail with her feet on the window ledge and if the height of an 18 mth old was big enough to sit like that?
If she was in this position when GF leaned forward she was then able to stand up and then fell forward with this motion.

Thinking out loud.

I think her feet could have rested on the ledge if her bottom was on the handrail and if he only had her with one arm - I’ve been curious what that other arm was holding ? A drink? A cigarette? If she had her swimsuit on and it was wet I could possibly see her bottom slipping off that handrail and tumbling over the ledge - the video showed him lifting her over the rail is my guess and if he did play catch with her outside the window that could explain why some people say she was outside the window as an interpretation ? JMO
ETA photo marked up where I think her legs could be if she was sitting on the railing

 

[jeena]

@they'll get you . Thx for pix.
Pic #1 = squat; #2 = kneel/squat. Can he get up easily & quickly to grab a toddler? But based on window height pix, he could not have been squatting or kneeling, when she went thru window.

In pic #2, our little Elsa fan in a dress w hem draping on sidewalk?
A face plant in the making, on concrete yet.
Here maybe younger than 18 mo? She's a toddler.
Not Scarlett O'Hara who can lift front of long, floor-skimming skirt & avoid tripping on extra fabric.

Who puts toddler in dress like that, then lets toddler go outside? IDK. Well, maybe not G'pa's idea.

When you look at the long blue dress photo again, notice there is another girl in the background with a similar dress, you can only see the bottom blue skirt of the dress. Maybe both girls were in costume for a party or event?

 

[whatsnext]

I think her feet could have rested on the ledge if her bottom was on the handrail and if he only had her with one arm - I’ve been curious what that other arm was holding ? A drink? A cigarette? If she had her swimsuit on and it was wet I could possibly see her bottom slipping off that handrail and tumbling over the ledge - the video showed him lifting her over the rail is my guess and if he did play catch with her outside the window that could explain why some people say she was outside the window as an interpretation ? JMO
ETA photo marked up where I think her legs could be if she was sitting on the railing

Maybe he wanted to show her something that was going on on the ground and leaned out of the window with her, and she slipped out of his hands ?

 

[justice4allnow]

Maybe he wanted to show her something that was going on on the ground and leaned out of the window with her, and she slipped out of his hands ?

Whatsnext, I think that is likely, because it was reported that he cried out, "I just dropped my child," NOT "my child just fell out!"

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Whatsnext, I think that is likely, because it was reported that he cried out, "I just dropped my child," NOT "my child just fell out!"

Strange choice of words, IMHO...

 

[Aydrianna523]

But if the person denied any blame, coming up with one ridiculous excuse after another?

Some people can forgive though. I don't know if I could. I don't think we want to find out.
But a local guy whose 3 children died recently (one was unborn) and his wife almost died. He seems to be able to forgive the guy who ran through the stop sign. (I follow his FB page). What an empty house he has!
I know another gal who hugged the murderer of her son in court. It was in the paper. So forgiveness can happen.

 

[they'll get you]

 

[drama_farmer]

That description would explain his numerous tickets for not wearing a seat belt. "Nobody tells ME what to do!"

"Nobody tells ME what to do!"

I can definitely see that mindset at work in this situation. IMO, I'll add that his multiple seat belt infractions might indicate another, ingrained trait more dangerous than just failing to wear a seat belt: Lack of situational awareness and/or very poor attention to detail.

For instance, after I receive a citation for a moving violation, I become hyper-aware and ultra observant whenever I find myself in a situation where it could happen again. Of course, that is after I make a vow to change the behavior that got me in trouble the first time. So, I'll make sure I observe all traffic laws, while keeping my eyes peeled for law enforcement vehicles. I'll ask my friends and family to remind me to wear my seat belt, and encourage them to be more vigilant, as well.

If lack of situational awareness is a personality trait, it tends to rear its head in all situations. Repeated violations for not wearing a seat belt are a relatively trivial consequence of not paying attention to the world (and its hazards) around you. Failure to be reasonably aware of your surroundings can lead to unintended tragic consequences, too.

All IMO

 

[they'll get you]

Does anyone know who was Chloe's babysitter while mom was at work?
Did she go to day care or was there a live-in sitter....or grandparents?

"Each morning, Chloe pretended to do her makeup while her mother got ready for work".
View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary on kpcnews.com and share memories