Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

stattlich1 · Dec 6, 2019

Evinrude said:
I have one theory but choose not to post.

Likely a wise decision

If the theory posted by me earlier were to be true, and be it known I think it only a theory, then I would surmise the reason for the need for such drastic action as murder would be either to hide sexual relations of an adult with a minor, or definitive proof of being involved in drug trafficking.

Now, as to who? Well, in my opinion, and MOO, it would be a man who holds a position of authority, either in public office, or somewhere else high up in a public sector field or a man who is a leader in an area of public service. Or possibly a man of the cloth.

It would be a man who you have looked at, straight in the eye, and never gave it a passing thought that he was the killer. It could easily be a man who we here, on this site, have seen somewhere in the media surrounding this entire fiasco.

carry on.

Torch Carrier · Dec 6, 2019

Yes, Stattlich, I agree, someone who has had inappropriate relations with a minor, even if he does NOT (?) necessarily have super high standing in the community (but maybe moderate, like a scout leader or coach) would have a LOT to lose if a fairly assertive seeming young girl like Libby or Abby were about to reveal his misdeeds publicly and/or to LE. Years in prison! RSO status and all that it entails! Loss of livelihood, property, family potentially. A childhood victim myself, and now with the momentum of all this #metoo, I find this scenario easy to imagine it might be what brought all of this about. Maybe he wanted to "talk" then it got heated, fast.

margarita25 · Dec 7, 2019

delete

margarita25 · Dec 7, 2019

gregjrichards · Dec 7, 2019

Torch Carrier said:
Yes, Stattlich, I agree, someone who has had inappropriate relations with a minor, even if he does NOT (?) necessarily have super high standing in the community (but maybe moderate, like a scout leader or coach) would have a LOT to lose if a fairly assertive seeming young girl like Libby or Abby were about to reveal his misdeeds publicly and/or to LE. Years in prison! RSO status and all that it entails! Loss of livelihood, property, family potentially. A childhood victim myself, and now with the momentum of all this #metoo, I find this scenario easy to imagine it might be what brought all of this about. Maybe he wanted to "talk" then it got heated, fast.

My issue with this theory is that girls would probably have recognised him and said there is X on the video. When he said “down the hill” as a command in a threatening manner and they knew him would they not have said “X why are you doing this?” Would Liberty have been alarmed enough to get him on video if she had any idea who he was?

I am sure law enforcement has talked to Abigail and Liberty’s friends to ask if they had confided anything. Male employees at the school will have been looked at in depth and all their coaches at softball etc. All males they have been in contact with at school and in their personal lives will have been looked at as part of the investigation.

From what Kelsi (Liberty’s Sister) has said about the girls in the HLN interview they don’t appear to have been acting different that day or prior to it nor was there anything indicating that they were going to meet anyone there. I remember Abbey’s Mum saying she doesn’t think the girls were going to meet a someone like a boy as Abbey was not dressed up and was wearing her Mum’s old sweatshirt.

I can’t decide if we are looking at a random killer that was waiting for a young girl to attack and kill that day and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or if we are looking at a killer like in the Closs case who was maybe stalking one of the girls and they had no idea and he decided to act on it when the opportunity presented itself that horrific day.

MingyMoo · Dec 7, 2019

Awsi Dooger · Dec 7, 2019

gregjrichards said:
I can’t decide if we are looking at a random killer that was waiting for a young girl to attack and kill that day and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I can decide. That's exactly what it was. Every other version is too much thinking going on. Adding too many variables without recognizing that more variables means less likely, not more likely.

I've seen everything from geocaching to masturbation. Lots of good Scrabble words.

Besides, we have this guy on film. He is not dressed normally. He's got bulkiness going on. Face not visible. He doesn't have one item of clothing that can be easily recognized by brand, let along allegiance to some school, etc.

How often would that combo be true, if the guy were merely out for a stroll and then something provoked him to attack? We have a picture of Abby. It looked like Abby. If Abby had photographed Libby it would be unmistakable of Libby. Nobody can figure out who Bridge Guy is because that was part of his preparation. From 10 feet it wouldn't work but from 70 it has...so far.

Regarding the 5% solve rate, those cases are lumped together no matter how obscure or how few law enforcement members worked on them. This one may never be solved but the likelihood is far above the norm given not only the video/audio but the vast profile and absolute certainty that eyes will never leave.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

Ozoner said:
Mega-snipped.

I agree with you that some of LE's comments have been unclear. However:

1) Aside from wishful thinking, there has never been any reason to feel that an arrest is coming.
2) All LE said was that more than one perp was a possibility, and that was before they had processed their evidence. They're open to all possibilities until they start processing their evidence and making deductions. Everything they've said for the past two-and-a-half years suggests that they're looking for a single perp.
3) You're taking Leazenby out of context. He didn't say that he personally recognized the voice. He made those comments as a way of showing what people who think they recognize the voice should be saying to themselves. They should be asking themselves, "Where do I know that voice from," etc.

Why do you think LE said the community would be shocked when they found out the identity and stated what would his family think (paraphrasing) and the hiding in plain sight plus could be in the room comments? Those comments and the one about knowing his voice all seem to point that they have someone in mind IMO.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

megsan said:
If the FBI linguistics expert said the individual in the audio has a Georgia accent going to the GBI would make sense.

Very good thought. Hadn't thought of that.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

Awsi Dooger said:
Thank you. But hands in pockets is not what stands out to me from that photo.

It's midday of the search, but before the bodies were found, yet nobody is visible down below. That's the standout aspect. You would think there would be search teams all over the place.

It's the reason I refuse to accept all the reports of people on the trails on the day of the murders. It simply doesn't jive at all with anything I've seen at Delphi or elsewhere. I'm not a believer in specifics when big picture generalities collide. Far more often than not, the generalities prevail. Nobody is on these trails. The reason Abby and Libby became concerned about someone on the bridge is not because he said or did anything unusual beforehand. There's another human being on the bridge, moving toward them. That is the heightened aspect all by itself.

<modsnip >

Another strange aspect from the linked photo is that the area where the bodies were found is almost visible...but not quite. It would be further around the bend of Deer Creek. Photo is taken just before the missing plank. Based on how barren the trees were in February you can see that Bridge Guy needed to take them to that spot or not far away to make sure nothing was visible from the front of the bridge. If he's been there previously and the crime scene area was part of a plan he knows the front of the bridge is the main concern. People will stop there and look at the view but go no further. If someone does proceed on the bridge then fairly soon they can't see the body site anyway, due to so many trees no matter how barren.

Also, the #5 photo at the link (arrows advance) is a decent impression of what the opposite bank looked like on the day the bodies were found. It elevates sharply just beyond the creek. The law enforcement officer in the photo appears to be looking at the bank to see if there is any evidence of where a crossing might have occurred.

If that no.5 photo is the photo I am thinking about, that LEO has no forensic suit on either, which has always struck me as a big problem. (I cannot actually access this article as it is not accessible from Europe but believe it is a photo I have seen previously.) How many other officers trampled around the scene like that?

Ozoner · Dec 7, 2019

tresir2012 said:
Why do you think LE said the community would be shocked when they found out the identity and stated what would his family think (paraphrasing) and the hiding in plain sight plus could be in the room comments? Those comments and the one about knowing his voice all seem to point that they have someone in mind IMO.

BBM
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I disagree.
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There are a couple of other possibilities
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The most likely one is that the FBI's profile of BG says that he's a local who maintains a facade of normality and is active in his local church.
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It's also possible that they have mitochondrial DNA of a type that is very common in the caucasian population of central Indiana. That might make them suspect that BG is a local without enabling them to finger a particular suspect.
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That they asked for Etter's autopsy results suggests a third possibility. Maybe they have semen with no DNA in it, which would tell them that the perp has had a vasectomy. That would imply that the perp is married with children--a family man. Single guys rarely get vasectomies.
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They may be clueless; their comments may have been designed to jar the public into eyeing the men around them with suspicion and considering people that they might have written off as a suspect out of hand. It might have been a hail Mary, to borrow from football parlance.
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There are probably many other possibilities that haven't occurred to me. In any event, I don't see anything to suggest that LE has a prime suspect.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

JenniD said:
I probably chose my words poorly when I spoke about posters with tons of information- then nothing. You are right many of us don’t post for a while- life gets in the way or we just have nothing to add. I can certainly identify with both of those scenarios. I did not intend to raise suspicions on those posters- it was a random thought I should have kept to myself. My apologies.

No reason to apologise Jenni. I knew exactly who you were talking about from your description and it baffles me too.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

margarita25 said:
Media Timeline 9
Abby & Libby, Delphi
Articles by Kokomo Tribune
Feb 14, 2017 - Nov 19, 2019
M25 WS

2017

Feb 14, 2017

UPDATE: Officials: 2 bodies found in Deer Creek near Delphi

Feb 16, 2017

Police seeking help in finding man on Delphi trail where teens went missing

March 9, 2017

A family speaks: Grandfather of slain Delphi girl issues statement

April 27, 2017

Concert for slain teens planned in Kokomo

Parents of murdered Delphi teens announce memorial concert fundraiser

May 8, 2017

Taking Back the Trail

July 17, 2017

UPDATE: State police release drawing of suspect in Delphi killings

July 19, 2017

Sheriff to Facebook users: Stop posting on Delphi murders, start calling tip line

2018

Jan 16, 2018

Investigators correct info on Delphi case

Feb 13, 2018

Indiana police hope anniversary of Delphi murders spurs tips

Feb 14, 2018

Press conference marks anniversary of Delphi girls' deaths

A year later: Family of slain Delphi teenager fights for justice

2019

Feb 13, 2019

2 years later, no arrest yet in Delphi killings

April 19, 2019

Police holding press conference in Delphi case

Apr 22, 2019

New information in Delphi murder case

'Only a coward would do such a thing': Police release new info in Delphi murders

Authorities continue to explore Delphi leads

April 23, 2019

Former police chief weighs in on new Delphi sketch

May 13, 2019

More than 3,000 tips since new sketch, footage in Delphi case

July 17, 2019

Funds raised to build park in memory of slain girls

July 22, 2019

Evidence from man who killed himself in standoff shared with Delphi investigators

Nov 19, 2019

Indiana park honoring 2 slain teens gets donated light poles

You are doing a great job here M25. Today is the day.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

mom2chloe said:
Maybe the car in question had Georgia plates?!

Yeah maybe Georgia voice and Georgia plates. Or Georgia link in the DNA?

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

JnRyan said:
It does strange now in light of what LE has revealed or said subsequently. This was Sgt. Riley who was the spokesperson for ISP and I don't know how much of the crime he is read in on. Maybe he is just told enough to just do his job. That is, he may not know the cause of death or weapon used. The statement was made on the day after the discovery of the bodies. Kind of reminds me of Laertes' father in 'Hamlet' giving him advice before he embarks on a trip, 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be'. Thank you for that, Captain Obvious.

Had a big snigger at your post at the end there.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

JnRyan said:
I don't believe Etter had been buried at that point and Delphi investigators were interested in the autopsy results. (Is DNA analysis part of an autopsy? A rhetorical question as I do not know.) It is interesting LE wanted the results. It would seem LE is grasping at straws here. For anyone who believes LE has an idea who the killer and just needs more evidence or a confession, the fact that LE is looking at Etter would seem to contradict that theory.

I think at one point it was said they are looking at any perp with crimes against children so would also think that abduction/rapes and murders they would also be routinely looking at as well. They have also explained why they don't "clear" anyone too.

tresir2012 · Dec 7, 2019

Evinrude said:
I have one theory but choose not to post.

Oh go on share your theory......

stattlich1 · Dec 7, 2019

Awsi Dooger said:
I can decide. That's exactly what it was. Besides, we have this guy on film. He is not dressed normally. He's got bulkiness going on. Face not visible. He doesn't have one item of clothing that can be easily recognized by brand, let along allegiance to some school, etc.

How does a random killer that was waiting to murder that day, with no motive, other than to murder, how does that fit in with.....

We believe him to be from Delphi etc., hiding in plain sight, have likely interviewed him, or someone close to him, etc.?

Under those circumstances, he would have to be a rather 'local' random killer to be from Delphi, or had been from Delphi, to work in, or have worked in Delphi, to be hiding in plain sight, and to have possibly been interviewed by LE.

Which leads me to believe, IF.....he is/was all those things, there is a distinct possibility he knew and possibly targeted these two girls for a reason. However, indeed, he could just be a murderer, with no other motive than to satisfy that evil within.

Also, the idea that in the photo/video he is so generic in dress, possibly in disguise, would lead me to suspect he has/had some experience in understanding murder, maybe some prior planning on his part so as to not reveal his identity, someone who......well,

I agree a teacher or coach may be possible, but for me, IMO, it is different career field this evil killer hides within.

MichelleBlue · Dec 7, 2019

Can anyone post a link to the press conference where LE said the comment of "he could be in this room right now" or something similar? I'm curious about it & can't find it.

IMO The first time I heard the voice recording of "Down the hill. Guys." I heard a strange regret in the man's voice. Like he was struggling with the guilt of what he was about to do.

I wish these families could have closure already. I happened to visit the local LE Facebook page recently & there were a lot of comments daily about this case. It made me realize that the local public hasn't forgotten.

FreshEyes · Dec 7, 2019

MichelleBlue said:
Can anyone post a link to the press conference where LE said the comment of "he could be in this room right now" or something similar? I'm curious about it & can't find it.

IMO The first time I heard the voice recording of "Down the hill. Guys." I heard a strange regret in the man's voice. Like he was struggling with the guilt of what he was about to do.

I wish these families could have closure already. I happened to visit the local LE Facebook page recently & there were a lot of comments daily about this case. It made me realize that the local public hasn't forgotten.

On page one of this thread there is a link to the latest PC 4/22/19. That is the one you are looking for.

Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

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