IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[katydid23]

Isn't that what the lawyer is for?

I've calmed down some, since the initial shock of seeing the videos.

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the Wiegands had no choice but to proceed as they have. They both have experience with how the law works and are letting "due process" take its course.

This way they can let an outside authority legally make a decision just who was at fault here, and somewhat separate themselves from family drama.

But that's not what they are doing. They are not stepping back and allowing an outside authority decide who is at fault.

They are aggressively accusing the cruise line company as being the murderers of their daughter. Saying g point blank, if it wasn't for RCCL, their baby girl would have gone to see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday.

 

[Forever Young]

But that's not what they are doing. They are not stepping back and allowing an outside authority decide who is at fault.

They are aggressively accusing the cruise line company as being the murderers of their daughter. Saying g point blank, if it wasn't for RCCL, their baby girl would have gone to see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday.

If Anello is found not guilty, then must be someone else who is at fault.

In a way, its almost like trying the same case twice, just to make doubly sure. I wonder if something inside of them told them that their feelings about what happened might change as time went on.

 

[Pigey]

Chloe's parents cannot face the reality that someone they trusted is responsible for her death.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Chloe's parents cannot face the reality that someone they trusted is responsible for her death.

Which, given their choice of employment, seems odd. JMOO

 

[MsMarple]

OMG! I loved how the man in the demo went back to sit down with La Comay, and keep the baby doll tucked right next to him, like the doll was a real baby!

Can you imagine if the do a realistic demonstration like that in court? And even take a trip to a ship, to see how high up they are?

If SA goes to trial in Puerto Rico, he is going to get a "Go directly to jail, do not pass "Go", do not collect $200"!"

Wow, what a demonstration! What I concluded is that when the man leaned forward even if his head didn't actually go outside of the window it's so close that there's no way he could have thought the window was closed. Certainly nothing to do with color blindness.

How can someone's face be mere inches away from a window opening without the person realizing it's open air? I don't know what the hell SA was thinking but if he truly believes he didn't know then IMO there's some psychological effect happening.

IMO he knew the window was open, he lifted Chloe up to see outside and then dropped her because he didn't have a tight grip on her. All the BS that came later was his effort to explain/excuse his reckless behavior.

If the PR court moves as slowly as many on the mainland then it may be quite a while before SA ever gets to trial. And if it drags out long enough I believe he'll end up taking a plea deal though I would like to see it play out in court. He should not be allowed to skate on his crime IMO.

 

[Forever Young]

Wow, what a demonstration! What I concluded is that when the man leaned forward even if his head didn't actually go outside of the window it's so close that there's no way he could have thought the window was closed. Certainly nothing to do with color blindness.

How can someone's face be mere inches away from a window opening without the person realizing it's open air? I don't know what the hell SA was thinking but if he truly believes he didn't know then IMO there's some psychological effect happening.

IMO he knew the window was open, he lifted Chloe up to see outside and then dropped her because he didn't have a tight grip on her. All the BS that came later was his effort to explain/excuse his reckless behavior.

If the PR court moves as slowly as many on the mainland then it may be quite a while before SA ever gets to trial. And if it drags out long enough I believe he'll end up taking a plea deal though I would like to see it play out in court. He should not be allowed to skate on his crime IMO.

I agree. Wanted to bang on glass - no. Thought the window was closed - no. Colorblind- no. The lying is as much of a crime as the negligence is.

Many people think he'll suffer all his life and that is punishment enough, that he poses no risk to society, and he won't do it again.

The risk to society is that somebody thinks they can get away with it. The punishment is to deter future such acts by society at large.

 

[they'll get you]

DBM

 

[TDoc72]

I had not seen this particular episode of La Comay, dated December 18, 2019. The hosts use a model of the railing and window and a doll for demonstration. Demonstration begins slightly before the 45 minute mark.

Thanks for posting! It was a great visual, although I would like to know the height difference between SA & the Comay cohost. The cohost’s arms seemed very long and had the doll very far outside the window.

And I too liked when the cohost sat & continued to take care of the doll.

 

[neesaki]

I had not seen this particular episode of La Comay, dated December 18, 2019. The hosts use a model of the railing and window and a doll for demonstration. Demonstration begins slightly before the 45 minute mark.

And again, the comments continue to be scathing. None believes this was an accident... They, as some of us, say it looks like he picked that baby up and threw her out. Why else do what he did? It otherwise makes no sense. Is he a complete imbecile? I guess not or he wouldn’t be left with Chloe alone on a cruise ship. That poor little baby. :cry:

And they played back that video of SA ... he is the liar of lies. So Sickening.

 

[neesaki]

Double post

 

[neesaki]

DBM

 

[neesaki]

Thanks for posting! It was a great visual, although I would like to know the height difference between SA & the Comay cohost. The cohost’s arms seemed very long and had the doll very far outside the window.

And I too liked when the cohost sat & continued to take care of the doll.

SA was looking out with his neck bent looking straight down, couldn’t have done that with a closed window, plain and simple. And then his arms extended even further while holding Chloe out. He needs to be put under the jail.

 

[justice4allnow]

The commenters under the LaComay video on YouTube are outraged, some claiming that it was deliberate and even that it had to be planned. I used Google translate to read the comments as they were in Spanish, but I don't think the translation could be too far off.

 

[mickey2942]

The commenters under the LaComay video on YouTube are outraged, some claiming that it was deliberate and even that it had to be planned. I used Google translate to read the comments as they were in Spanish, but I don't think the translation could be too far off.

It is funny, I actually understood quite a bit of the clip, I don't speak Spanish, but I am around so many people who do, I am actually getting pretty good at "receptive" Spanish, I understand much more than I speak.

 

[justice4allnow]

Winkleman actually said that? Grandpa SHOULD NOT have been following 18-month-old Chloe anywhere! He should have picked her up and carried her or taken her by the hand as they moved about together. I'm as disturbed by what I see in the video of Chloe taking off on her own - several feet ahead of SA - and entering an adult bar area as I am about him manhandling her up to the open window. A member suggested yesterday that Grandpa might have suggested going to look out of or bang on the windows, so Chloe started heading over to that wall of windows with SA barely able to keep up. He let the toddler wander away from him and into an adult bar area. Toddlers move quickly and should never be allowed to get so far away from a caregiver! If Chloe hadn't been tragically lost in the fall, she would have likely met her doom later in the cruise when in SA's care.

ETA: The more I think about it, MW's comment about Grandpa FOLLOWING Chloe everywhere seems to suggest that the little one was at fault! In other words, if Chloe had stood still and not taken off towards the windows, Grandpa would not have had to follow her, and the horrific "accident" would not have happened.

Yes, BetteDavis, Winkleman has blamed Chloe throughout-not only did she lead poor hapless Grandpa to her own demise, she ASKED to be picked up and SHE WANTED to bang on the glass and SHE LEANED forward at the open window and fell. Sam Anello has no responsibility. Was she just careless or will Winkleman next claim that she was suicidal?? I'm sorry for the very dark sarcasm, but this innocent baby's death being monetized and this very glib attorney's posturings are just unconscionable.

 

[al66pine]

Decisions of SJW & AW on How to Proceed?

....I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the Wiegands had no choice but to proceed as they have. They both have experience with how the law works and are letting "due process" take its course. This way they can let an outside authority legally make a decision just who was at fault here, and somewhat separate themselves from family drama.

@Forever Young sbm
(1) Agreeing w ^ as to PR's prosecution of SA, not much choice for KSW & AW. About the only thing they could do, imo, would be to help pay top dollar for best legal defense for SA. Or pay a bribe to someone in PR crim justice chain.<---- I'm not advocating this and not saying anything negative about PR system, just saying they would have to take extreeeeeme action to impact crim trial outcome. Based on their use of (gimme) funding sites, doubtful they would pay out of pocket/go into debt for either of those two ideas. Seems they are just letting that case roll on, at least to outward appearances.

(2) Respectfully disagreeing w some of ^ re ~ 'somewhat separating themselves from family drama.' IDK how much "drama" is/has been happening in the family privately, but there's been plenty of public drama created by their actions - decision to engage a self-publicizing lawyer, decision to appear on talk-show circuit, decision to trumpet cruiseline at fault, decision to publicly to try to deflect all blame from SA, etc. Imo they have hardly separated themselves from "family drama" or "drama" of any kind but jmo.

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FWIW, a bit of info about "due process."
"Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects the individual person from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due process violation, which offends the rule of law."
^ Due process - Wikipedia

 

[they'll get you]

SA was looking out with his neck bent looking straight down, couldn’t have done that with a closed window, plain and simple. And then his arms extended even further while holding Chloe out. He needs to be put under the jail.

Why, why did he do that. What was his real intention?

 

[they'll get you]

It is funny, I actually understood quite a bit of the clip, I don't speak Spanish, but I am around so many people who do, I am actually getting pretty good at "receptive" Spanish, I understand much more than I speak.

I wish it had sub-titles

 

[BeachSky]

If he knew he was severely colourblind and couldn't tell the difference between an open and closed window, then WHY would he pick her up and put her past the safety rail, and into the window ledge, without checking to see if there was indeed glass?

Why would he keep saying he thought there was glass? If he was severely colourblind, why would he have assumed there was glass if he hadn't touched it?

Pot belly, short alligator arms that lifted her exaggeratedly high up in the air. Maybe in his mind he’s in stellar shape but he should never have pulled that stunt. Hanging her out that window. Someone going by could of bumped his arm or startled him.
Hope he stops doing those cry baby interviews.

MOO

 

[mickey2942]

In the demonstration, the guardrails didn't look that high, on the ship, I believe that they are almost 48inches high.