Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

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Justice101 said:
ok, then how can they say all videos are wrong? Because I saw a couple that just had them going down to the creek from the south end of the bridge. That can't be wrong too. One or the other...
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The only answer is @Nerissa or @sunshineray responses here on this page of the thread IMO.
 
Charlot123 said:
It is interesting that in WA state, I never saw any billboards about the case. Neither did I hear much in the news here, I think I read about the case on WS first, and it looked like a solvable case. Then in all petered out, and I returned to it when there was a possibility of it becoming a genetic genealogy case. But even these plans did not materialize. Instead, there was 2019 PC, that, essentially, closed it all. MOO.

I sometimes wonder. Imagine, these is DNA, and the perpetrator is youngish. There is a possibility that LE won’t find any matches, if the person was conceived via egg donation, or embryo donation, and not in a CODIS database. Sometimes the donor side might be limiting potential matches, and the whole genetic genealogy path becomes useless.

Or, everyone whose DNA was found on the crime site, has an explanation as to why it was there.... Which could be the way to start, again, if LE has the guts to not believe any alibis provided by the families or intimate partners of DNA owners, or starts asking that such alibis are proved by a second party. Then something interesting could still be found.
But for this, we need an independent, dedicated group, better from another state.
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I didn't back to WA again. But I was in CA and FL after that. On the entry road to a military installation in both of those states there was a similar billboard. The one in FL was an excellent place to put one since a LOT of personnel went there on temporary assignment. I heard, but never saw it, that somewhere on the Peninsula (Ft. Eustis? Langley AFB?) there was also a billboard on the road into the command where traffic would be stopped. I had to hand it to the FBI, if they had to pick places where the billboards would most likely be read by persons from all the country they picked what I consider the best places in SE VA.

I don't believe it is likely that this person was a product of an egg donation or other such procedure. But add in the possibility of an adopted child that doesn't know his parents or a mother who gave up an infant for adoption and doesn't know the adoptive couple then it is stretched ever further. I still think the possibility is small, but it would certainly lead to dead end if that were the case.
 
SMK777 said:
I don’t understand, if they thought he was local, why they put it out nationally. And as the 2 girls weren’t missing, what was the point of their pictures? I just don’t get it....
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At the time based on where I saw them I thought it was a great idea. High traffic area, persons from all across the US, high probability of these persons having time to read them and then talk about it with co-workers. Now that I think back, I don't get it. What did they see in the evidence? And in our area, CA and FL, all outside military installations. Was the FBI trying to get the word to midwesterners who would have friends and family back home? Or did they believe there was a chance of a military connection? I'm with you - I don't get it.
 
It could be that genetic genealogy is not panning out, in the sense that they have achieved some level of cousin matching but the family trees generated by this are not yielding viable suspects. So they have distant matches to their offender sample but the families they can match it to do not have men of the right age or location.

If this is the case, while it could be due to adoption (egg or sperm donation would be even more rare) the likely answer to me is that there have been one or more extrapaternal events in BG's family history. In other words, in some generation in the past (it may not even be BG's parents) there is a child who thinks their father is one man but in reality it was a different person. These events would be known or suspected only by the mother (even she may not know for sure) and it happens MUCH more often than you think.
 
JnRyan I’m reading in to your post about SE VA. If we are connecting dots here we are talking about shipyards and such. That’s an interesting angle and I haven’t been a part of a discussion around it. You could read a lot in to that line of thinking. Either they’re trying to get the word out to people living outside the area due to military work who know him from the Delphi area, or they suspect he’s a member of the armed forces and want the people he works with in other states to recognize him.

Pure conjecture but it could explain why a spouse hasn’t come forward. (1) She doesn’t know he did it. He said he was on military travel, but he wasn’t. The unidentified car could be a rental car from anywhere. (See Israel Keyes renting cars in diff states). The sketch resembles but is not obviously him. Or possibly she just doesn’t even know the case exists yet. (2) she does know but she’s on a base away from family and friends and is isolated, and is too scared to come forward.
 
Yemelyan said:
This was a very common criticism at the time. The thought was that perhaps authorities could not show a bigger image of BG due to image quality and that the larger pictures of the girls were there to elicit an emotional response/tips. However, I agree with you.
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Suggestion was also made that the girls' pics were so large because the killer had possibly shared video of the actual killings. A long shot, but possible?
 
Silver_produce0 said:
JnRyan I’m reading in to your post about SE VA. If we are connecting dots here we are talking about shipyards and such. That’s an interesting angle and I haven’t been a part of a discussion around it. You could read a lot in to that line of thinking. Either they’re trying to get the word out to people living outside the area due to military work who know him from the Delphi area, or they suspect he’s a member of the armed forces and want the people he works with in other states to recognize him.

Pure conjecture but it could explain why a spouse hasn’t come forward. (1) She doesn’t know he did it. He said he was on military travel, but he wasn’t. The unidentified car could be a rental car from anywhere. (See Israel Keyes renting cars in diff states). The sketch resembles but is not obviously him. Or possibly she just doesn’t even know the case exists yet. (2) she does know but she’s on a base away from family and friends and is isolated, and is too scared to come forward.
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That's all what I'm wondering. If you wanted to put a billboard some place where traffic comes to an almost complete halt due to rush hour and/or accidents, I can think of at least 3-4 other places on I-64 and I-264, one of which is not far from Norfolk Naval Shipyard (actually in Portsmouth and not Norfolk) - with the horrendous back-ups trying to get through the Downtown Tunnel. If I really sit down and think about I can probably come up with at LEAST 6-10 places. Instead they pick the military bases.
 
SMK777 said:
I don’t understand, if they thought he was local, why they put it out nationally. And as the 2 girls weren’t missing, what was the point of their pictures? I just don’t get it....
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We went though Indiana in November of 2017. I saw the Delphi exit but not once did we see a billboard about this case. I was surprised because I was under the impression they were everywhere. I have never saw not even one.
 
Iwatchingeye said:
We went though Indiana in November of 2017. I saw the Delphi exit but not once did we see a billboard about this case. I was surprised because I was under the impression they were everywhere. I have never saw not even one.
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Wow! And if there was ANY place where I would imagine there would be a billboard it would be at that exit. In fact, I would have thought that would have been the first place a billboard went up. At the same time they are hundreds of miles away in CA, FL and VA.
 
SMK777 said:
I don’t understand, if they thought he was local, why they put it out nationally. And as the 2 girls weren’t missing, what was the point of their pictures? I just don’t get it....
Click to expand...

The bulletin boards went national for the first couple of months after the crime and then kind of disappeared gradually.

I followed this case from the beginning and while people always wondered if BG was someone who lived or worked in Delphi, past or present, LE did not begin to really push the local narrative until the April 2019 press conference IMO. Something about the "intelligence developed over time" that Carter talked about, led them to both the younger sketch and the prevailing idea of a "local." It sounds like it probably had to do with the vehicle near the CPS building and its movements the day of the crime.

And, I also think that LE are relying on a behavioral profile that specifies that most crimes like this are committed by offenders who have some legitimate, regular reason for being near the abduction site or murder/body disposal site. In the vast majority of cases, they live, work, or have regular business nearby. Ultimately we may find out this wasn't true for this particular case, but IMO they are going with the statistics on that right now.
 
Although this media source is not local, it does contain an actual quote. In the early days there was emphasis on a hitchhiker or somebody walking on the highway, the reason for the FBI billboards in my opinion. I’ve always believed the first sketch was a result of tips associated with this initial theory, prior to the second sketch and the local emphasis.

Feb 20/17
“Investigators are expanding their search for a suspect in connection with the murders of two Indiana teen girls who went missing and were later found dead near a hiking trail last week.

"We are actually expanding out," Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said Monday, according to WLFI-TV. "We want people who may have seen somebody walking, that may have picked up a hitchhiker that may have seen a hitchhiker around that afternoon."

Police previously considered the man in photos a person of interest, but after reviewing evidence, they named him a prime suspect in the killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams.....”
Search expands for suspect in connection with Indiana teen murders of Libby German and Abby Williams

ETA - and another Feb 20/17
“We are asking people that were driving through the Hoosier heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or saw somebody walking. We are asking people in Logansport all the way to Lafayette if they saw somebody around that late afternoon on February 13 walking down the roadway. We would like to know about that person,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley....”
All-out manhunt underway for main suspect in murders of two Delphi teens | Fox 59
 
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Yemelyan said:
The bulletin boards went national for the first couple of months after the crime and then kind of disappeared gradually.
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snipped by me

I think the only one I saw in my part of New England was on I-95 in New Hampshire, near the big toll plaza. Very heavily trafficked area in the north-south travel corridor including trucks etc. heading through Maine into Canada.

I was told there was one near Hartford on I-84, another major truck route, but I didn't see it myself. Nothing on any of the signs around the Boston area though, that I can recall.
 
Justice101 said:
ok, then how can they say all videos are wrong? Because I saw a couple that just had them going down to the creek from the south end of the bridge. That can't be wrong too. One or the other...
Click to expand...

I know, I know. I've read that there's somewhere that some LE said the girls definitively crossed that creek. However, I'm not sure "I" ever read, or saw, definitive proof thereof.

So, it's a 10 or 12 minute drive from under that bridge to the cemetery. Then, down the hill from there to the CS. In fact, the cemetery was a quite lively place shortly after the murders. I assume it either 1. had evidence therein, or 2. and I think more likely, provided easy access to the murder site.

Any clothing could have been thrown in the creek by the killer, or dragged in to the creek by a fox, skunk, or dog, or never was in the creek at all. I know "I" have never seen definitive proof of clothing in the creek.

I do find it interesting, this idea that the youtubers got it all wrong. Maybe it is a diversionary tactic by LE to state such. Maybe not.

All speculation on my part, of course :)
 
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JnRyan said:
I didn't back to WA again. But I was in CA and FL after that. On the entry road to a military installation in both of those states there was a similar billboard. The one in FL was an excellent place to put one since a LOT of personnel went there on temporary assignment. I heard, but never saw it, that somewhere on the Peninsula (Ft. Eustis? Langley AFB?) there was also a billboard on the road into the command where traffic would be stopped. I had to hand it to the FBI, if they had to pick places where the billboards would most likely be read by persons from all the country they picked what I consider the best places in SE VA.

I don't believe it is likely that this person was a product of an egg donation or other such procedure. But add in the possibility of an adopted child that doesn't know his parents or a mother who gave up an infant for adoption and doesn't know the adoptive couple then it is stretched ever further. I still think the possibility is small, but it would certainly lead to dead end if that were the case.
Click to expand...

This is interesting. The billboards are at the entrance of several military bases. Possibility of BG being (or has been) a serviceman and was home on leave when the crime occurred? Was this one of LE's early suspicions?

BTW- there was an exact replica of the billboard you posted above at Andrews AFB in Maryland. I am told there was also billboard at the entrance of McChord AFB near Tacoma WA.
 
JDough said:
This is interesting. The billboards are at the entrance of several military bases. Possibility of BG being (or has been) a serviceman and was home on leave when the crime occurred? Was this one of LE's early suspicions?

BTW- there was an exact replica of the billboard you posted above at Andrews AFB in Maryland. I am told there was also billboard at the entrance of McChord AFB near Tacoma WA.
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And here I was thinking I was WAY out in left field. I've been to Andrews AFB a few times and the traffic to get in, while not as huge as the Norfolk base, still backs up quite a ways at rush hour. (Of course, the traffic around the Washington DC area is legendary.) I've never been to McChord AFB at rush hour and not after Feb 2017. I don't know why I didn't make this strange connection to the billboards and military bases till today. ('Connection' is probably not the right word that really applies, but it is the closest I can think of at the moment.) In fact, it wasn't until @Marzipan made the comment about such a billboard probably being too 'busy' or wordy, that I was really prompted to give it any thought.
 
JDough said:
This is interesting. The billboards are at the entrance of several military bases. Possibility of BG being (or has been) a serviceman and was home on leave when the crime occurred? Was this one of LE's early suspicions?

BTW- there was an exact replica of the billboard you posted above at Andrews AFB in Maryland. I am told there was also billboard at the entrance of McChord AFB near Tacoma WA.
Click to expand...

Were the billboards you’re thinking of stationary or temporary? The few I’ve noticed looked to be permanent and I assumed different FBI notices were displayed from time to time. If so, the location wouldn’t be specific to this case. It’d just be at the site chosen by the FBI to have the billboards installed.

But I’d be wrong if some billboards were placed temporarily pertaining just to this case.
 
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