Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[Charlot123]

The FBI estimated SP's wealth at between 1.5-2.0 million dollars at the time of the rampage. This made him "have everything" by ordinary person standards, but not by casino whale standards. Rather, SP's wealth made him a junior whale- and that status was all SP seemed to value in life. This status, however, was slowly but steadily declining.

In the end, SP did not have the guts to win. Instead, he had the guts, video algorithim familiarity and liquid assets to well, lose slowly- but still lose in the end.

In their brief write up, the FBI related that SP was gradually losing the ability to fund his whale status.

In addition, I suspect that SP was also gradually losing the work discipline and business insights to generate substantial amounts of additional wealth. Thus, he only had what was in the tank- and the tank, despite periodic refills from winnings, was gradually going dry.

(Snipped)

The SP's "highs" were detailed by friends and family who noted that SP liked and expected the attention given to him by managers and that he enjoyed being waited on.

On some occasions, he had enough whale status to extend the attention to family as one admiring brother related that they were customarily personally greeted and brought "the biggest shrimp" by a restaurant manager. Likewise, casino employees noted that he was high maintenance, but strangely given the rampage, not truly exploitive.

Very interesting. It probably makes sense in the context of what @Ozoner posted about SP. Casino embodied not only the status, though. The friendship, too.

I think the reason SP was not exploitive with casino employees was because he viewed them through the prism of friendship. He was isolated, introverted, somewhat irritable, and anyhow, to keep a real circle of friends requires investment, time and finances. Finances he did not want to spend, unless on himself. But in the casinos, he was known, greeted by the name, welcomed and catered to. You know, the casinos are really great at creating the uber-welcoming ambience, even for people who never gamble, and if one does, they probably make your entrance a holiday, and this, too, is a huge attraction. Sort of a moveable feast, the Strip. Hence, not only it became his life, it was the only life in which he (as the smaller whale) was acknowledged. And I think - realistic as he was, for him the perks he was given could be the tokens of friendship. His girlfriend he met in the casino and through the casino (however, she was likable, and the only human side of him ended up being seen through her).

If he was slowly losing his winning ability, for whatever reason, he risked losing not only his whale status, but that semblance of friendship, and or all places and people in the world, his existence was meaningful only for the Strip.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Another possibility - people in the proximity of the bridge might have been minding own business and maybe scared, to call the police. Later, they could be ashamed to admit that they were scared.

The other possibility is the actual answer...there were no people in the proximity of the bridge

 

[StarryStarryNight]

My scenario was (one) of the versions when the killer is not a SK, and doesn’t kill for the sexual gratification, nor thrill. The (extreme) case of it being the son of SK, IRL, is unlikely. I drew it in lieu of many other (more likely) situations where the perpetrator could have observed some cases of murder with elements of sexual gratification, which he later could have recreated.

The truth is, the motive remains open. LE is silent. In this situation, the versions “the girls were killed by a SK” and “the girls were killed because they witnessed something” are equal (I am not repeating rumors, all these versions were discussed on WS).

To me, the real twist would be if they were killed by someone pretending to be a SK. This case is ...very tortuous. Nothing is what it appears to be.

These are all interesting points, but, as noted, I don’t see how this can be considered a “twist” in the case, when a scenario like this cannot possibly be evident to LE at this time. Information like this would only be learned after an arrest, LE could not look at the crime scene and discern this about the killer. The “twist” LE mentioned has to be something else. Just my thoughts.

 

[MistyWaters]

At the April 2019 press conference the references to how the girls were left in the woods and the spiritual movie references to good and evil made me think about some books I read in college. It gave me the impression that Abigail Williams and Liberty German were more than just murdered. They may have been violated in some way.

The ancient Greeks called it hubris. It has many forms, but in this case it could be that the killer found some sort of gratification in doing what he did. Or maybe the Superintendent is a religious person, and we are just overanalyzing everything that investigators have said about this case. All we can do is speculate about what investigators say concerning this case.

The Superintendent is a religious person and he’s made several comments over time to suggest that. The Apr/19 PC wasn’t in isolation. That’s also why I doubt various statements demonstrating his faith were intended to offer clues to the identity of the killer.

Feb 22, 2017
https://twitter.com/fox59/status/834420748957671425
“ISP Sgt. Carter talking about Libby and Abby: "It's my hope and my prayer that you're now experiencing God's eternal peace."

 

[MistyWaters]

Another possibility - people in the proximity of the bridge might have been minding own business and maybe scared, to call the police. Later, they could be ashamed to admit that they were scared.

And then let everybody think Abby and Libby just had gone missing while searches were going on throughout the trails and around town throughout late afternoon and into the night? No, I just can’t believe anyone would be too scared or ashamed to tell somebody later that they heard sounds that afternoon which alarmed them.

 

[SkipperKey3]

I can attest to the mind tuning out sounds. One evening I thought I heard the sound of breaking glass somewhere outside but when I looked out my front window, nothing looked out of sorts. So I decided I was imagining things, must’ve been a vehicle skidding on the grit the town used on the street to deal with ice buildup in the winter. The following day I noticed a broken window on the front of my neighbours unoccupied house. The house had been broken into during the night and ransacked, including a TV thrown out an upper story window. That was the sound of breaking glass I heard.

The police officer told me it’s very common, when hearing unusual, unexplained sounds for people to rationalize away so it fits within their normal, everyday experiences.

I can’t recall any homicides that were thwarted or immediately discovered by others hearing sounds from a long distance away. More often the question is asked - why didn’t anybody hear anything? I think the answer is because the vast majority of us are neither experienced nor trained to immediately recognize the sounds of a murder occurring, especially if one is too far away to see the attack taking place. Or maybe it’s because the victims are too scared to make a lot of noise, thinking if they comply they’ll be left alive.
JMO

Very true. Even just walking outside you hear bits and pieces of noises from all directions, and generally, unless it is something you can actually see, you shrug it off and go on your way.

There have been times when I've heard something odd and checked, only to find there were natural explanations for it. Do that enough times, and you generally stop checking so much.

So even if somebody on or by the bridge heard something, they may have simply shrugged it off as kids playing or for any of a number of other reasons.

 

[SkipperKey3]

And then let everybody think Abby and Libby just had gone missing while searches were going on throughout the trails and around town throughout late afternoon and into the night? No, I just can’t believe anyone would be too scared or ashamed to tell somebody later that they heard sounds that afternoon which alarmed them.

But if the sounds don't really register as remarkable, it is possible that they didn't even remember that it happened.
Even screams and sounds of excited kids playing sound very much alike, and are easily dismissed.

 

[Cryptic]

Casino embodied not only the status, though. The friendship, too.

If he was slowly losing his winning ability, for whatever reason, he risked losing not only his whale status, but that semblance of friendship, and or all places and people in the world, his existence was meaningful only for the Strip.

Gosh, I never thought about the friendship aspect. It makes perfect sense though.

Reports do indicate that SP was interested in friendships:

Casino employees related that SP though high maintenance and expecting whale acknowledgement, always tipped the standard amount. Likewise, other people noted that while SP could be a jerk to his girl friend, he was not cruel. In laws described him as aloof and opinionated, but still fundamentally sociable. SP kept family ties, though limited, and tenants described brief but friendly encounters.

Your insight about casinos as the source of the "friendships" also make perfect sense. Employees of higher end casinos seem to be selected for engaging personalities and levels of intelligence that are higher than needed for their duties. Likewise, whether male or female, and regardless of age, tend to be physically attractive.

In short, for somebody who needs the human friendship element, but is also a self centered jerk which inhibits forming true friendships, casino employees are a perfect substitute, even if they are of the paid sort.

 

[katethegreat]

I saw this article today and I can't help but think Matrell looks A LOT like the most recent composite sketch released: Most Wanted: Indiana murder suspect arrested in woods near Longview Drive
It is just me?

 

[MistyWaters]

But if the sounds don't really register as remarkable, it is possible that they didn't even remember that it happened.
Even screams and sounds of excited kids playing sound very much alike, and are easily dismissed.

From a distance of 1000s of feet away, I think a yell or scream might also be dismissed as a sound from a bird.

 

[Gracie55]

All good points. I still can't seem to let go of this niggling question of whether this Perp was connected to one of the adjacent properties in some manner. Then of course we have the cemetery close by, which can attract some strange visitors/lurkers., in addition to legitimate guests paying their respects.

I'm just circling around in my mind about what significance the location had, if any. I know many of you believe this is all random and a crime of opportunity. Statistics would tend to agree with you.

Aside from the proximity to the cemetery, do we know if that particular location is an "anchor" for anything or is known for a specific purpose? Is it known to be a good location to spot deer, see a particular type of wildlife or nesting bird, or tree fog, or? What is unique about this spot? Is it a surveyors landmark, or?

This could very well just end up being a hidden spot that served the Perp's murderous intent, but I'm still trying to find a thread we can pull.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think there's something about the location or somewhere very close. I don't have a clue what. Here's things that I've noticed.
1.) Lots of history near here, historical farm stuff. Old outbuildings. A "Haunted" cellar or barn or some religious ceremony? Did they come across somebody looting or defacing something earlier maybe, threaten to tell?
2.) Wilson's Caves nearby. My imagination keeps revisiting this series of caves. I don't quite have a real theory but escaping slaves were hidden here. Rattlesnakes denned there in the past. Did they still? Did the gals run into some snake worshipping cult?
3.) BG was familiar with the area having been there. Maybe it was a good spot for romance and he snapped after being rebuffed? Maybe he was targeted them for some reason and used the site for its privacy?
4.) Maybe he had a crossbow or other hidden weapon on his person and hunted them, the terrain At this slope slowing them.

 

[Falling Down]

From a distance of 1000s of feet away, I think a yell or scream might also be dismissed as a sound from a bird.

I concur.

My best guess is no one was on the main trail within hearing distance, anyway, until 25-30 minutes after the abduction.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

All good points. I still can't seem to let go of this niggling question of whether this Perp was connected to one of the adjacent properties in some manner. Then of course we have the cemetery close by, which can attract some strange visitors/lurkers., in addition to legitimate guests paying their respects.

I'm just circling around in my mind about what significance the location had, if any. I know many of you believe this is all random and a crime of opportunity. Statistics would tend to agree with you.

Aside from the proximity to the cemetery, do we know if that particular location is an "anchor" for anything or is known for a specific purpose? Is it known to be a good location to spot deer, see a particular type of wildlife or nesting bird, or tree fog, or? What is unique about this spot? Is it a surveyors landmark, or?

This could very well just end up being a hidden spot that served the Perp's murderous intent, but I'm still trying to find a thread we can pull.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I've said for some time BG had been there many times previously. Many, in my mind, could be 6 times or maybe 60 or more times.

A killer like this one may have done recon on various places where he thought he could carry out his fantasy. He chose MHB because of all the reasons people have put forth, here, since early in the case.

I believe he knows that area well, and knew it well before the newer highway opened in 2014. The highway I think gave him even more confidence he could pull something off at MHB.

Also he had to have known no cameras would have recorded him.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

One YouTuber, Anthony Greeno, did a series of reenactments and in one was an experiment of a woman screaming down near the creek and she could be heard on the trail near the north end of the bridge by the other members of the crew.

The trail head is another 1500 feet north of there.

I'm not sure if a scream from down in the gorge by the creek would carry too far up the trail.

JMO

 

[Cryptic]

Aside from the proximity to the cemetery, do we know if that particular location is an "anchor" for anything or is known for a specific purpose? Is it known to be a good location to spot deer, see a particular type of wildlife or nesting bird, or tree fog, or? What is unique about this spot?

Another member pointed out that the bridge is a high trestle railroad bridge and that bridges of these type can be of interest to train / railway buffs.

As a side note, the older BG persona would be the right age for the average train buff as most seem to be upper middle aged or elderly.

BG was familiar with the area having been there. Maybe it was a good spot for romance and he snapped after being rebuffed? Maybe he was targeted them for some reason and used the site for its privacy?

In regards to possible draws, I would not be surprised if the site is historic for teenage drinking, pot smoking, making out, and general hanging out. It could also be used as a teenage meeting spot to discuss those same activities.

As for privacy, I cant see the younger BG being all that concerned about privacy if he was there for one of the previously mentioned activities. But.... maybe the older BG persona went to the site for some alone time of the uhmm..... "self love" variety. He then became enraged for some reason?

In regards to that possibility, city / county workers maybe aware of self lovers known to frequent the park- even if they were not formally reported to the police.

 

[somequestions]

The other possibility is the actual answer...there were no people in the proximity of the bridge

The first photo Liberty German took looking down the path of the bridge there were no people around. The second photo Liberty German took looking back at Abby there were no people in the background. Why is it so hard to believe a killer would look around and not seeing anyone, decide to kidnap two teenage females from the end of that bridge?

I think this is how most criminals think. They look around, and if they think they can get away with something they do it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think this is how most criminals think. They look around, and if they think they can get away with something they do it.

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response.
Your comment is a good reminder to me to keep it simple. You are right. Most criminals aren't master minds. They go out trawling; they see, they take, they destroy.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[somequestions]

Very interesting. It probably makes sense in the context of what @Ozoner posted about SP. Casino embodied not only the status, though. The friendship, too.

I think the reason SP was not exploitive with casino employees was because he viewed them through the prism of friendship. He was isolated, introverted, somewhat irritable, and anyhow, to keep a real circle of friends requires investment, time and finances. Finances he did not want to spend, unless on himself. But in the casinos, he was known, greeted by the name, welcomed and catered to. You know, the casinos are really great at creating the uber-welcoming ambience, even for people who never gamble, and if one does, they probably make your entrance a holiday, and this, too, is a huge attraction. Sort of a moveable feast, the Strip. Hence, not only it became his life, it was the only life in which he (as the smaller whale) was acknowledged. And I think - realistic as he was, for him the perks he was given could be the tokens of friendship. His girlfriend he met in the casino and through the casino (however, she was likable, and the only human side of him ended up being seen through her).

If he was slowly losing his winning ability, for whatever reason, he risked losing not only his whale status, but that semblance of friendship, and or all places and people in the world, his existence was meaningful only for the Strip.

It is interesting how so many people try to analyze what Steven Paddock did. I do not know much about the case other than the evidence suggest he had been planning it for a while and used multiple visits to the hotel room in order to stockpile all the weapons he needed. I also think his father was a bank robber who was on the FBI ten most wanted list at one point.

But does that explain what he did? I don't know. My opinion on it is that if you are that far up in a building shooting at random people that you never met before to simply try and kill as many as possible, you are an extremely narcissistic person. All the people he injured and killed played no role in any of his wins or losses at the casino.

 

[MistyWaters]

I concur.

My best guess is no one was on the main trail within hearing distance, anyway, until 25-30 minutes after the abduction.

JMO

On the topic of the 10 mile total Delphi Historic Trail, I’ve often wondered if the killer over a period of time also watched other lesser used areas of the trail system for potential victims as well, and that the Monon Bridge just happened to be the location where he took the opportunity to attack the teens.

A few photos, several of other parts of the trail that appear to be equally isolated to the High Bridge portion.
Delphi Historic Trails Photos | TrailLink

It wouldn’t seem to me it was a sure thing two teens would happen to walk on the bridge on Feb 13/17 with nobody anywhere nearby. LE has never mentioned anything about possible multiple sightings of the suspect on prior days, if he was stalking the bridge area although that may indeed have occurred.

But I think the killer’s odds of finding a victim might increase if more than one location was watched and I can only compare it to fishing. That comparison indeed is rather crass, to compare a murderer to a fisherman but it’s the best example I can think of. It may apply to hunting as well, of which I know nothing about. In order to increase the chance of a good catch, most fisherman usually have a few favourite fishing spots along a river, not only one. If one location isn’t getting any bites, he’ll move on to another. This is why I wonder if the killer chose to seek innocent victims on the trail system, but not necessarily only at the area of the bridge.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Trail security - additional security was placed throughout the entire trail system, not only the small portion of the high bridge trail. That says to me safety improvements were deemed necessary to other portions of the trail system as well.

“As part of the plan, improved lighting and cameras will be added to five trail access points, information kiosks will be installed at three locations, trail markers will be placed along each trail every one-tenth of a mile, and WiFi will be accessible in select locations....”



Delphi launches crowdfunding campaign for trail safety improvements