TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5

[FW_Froggy]

One more thing: has anyone talked to this record-store guy in recent years in order to assess his credibility? It's odd that the girls supposedly went to the mall to go Christmas shopping, but apparently no store clerk remembers them buying anything.
I have to consider that the record store guy may have been an attention seeker or may have been mistaken.

Record store guy went to Southwest High School class of 1971. Seemed to be well liked and credible. He died in 1999.

 

[puddintain]

Let’s try this. Here is the article with 90 witnesses. It also states that the girls were seen with one individual but authorities believe there was more than one involved. These are facts.

 

[puddintain]

I searched for a transcript, but can't find one. The things that stood out to me:

-When asked if he knew if they had made it inside the mall, Richard Wilson (Renee's father) said that they had supposedly been spotted at the mall in Murphy's and a shoe store. Then he added that supposedly there was some tall, skinny guy following them, with "California" on his jacket. Another guest, Sheryl McCollum, mentioned a man coming forward in 1975 saying that he had seen them at a record store and saw a man lingering around or following them. Mr. Wilson did end up clarifying there was only the one gift from home in the car that Renee had brought, so they don't have anything definitive like a receipt that would help clarify where they had gone.

-The letter discussion was what I found most interesting. Mr. Wilson says the letter was brought by Debbie to her parents' house, and they called the police. Police wanted the envelope, so she had to go back and get it. You can tell he doesn't buy anything about the letter. Says the letter, the way it was folded, doesn't fit the envelope. The letter was written in ink and the envelope was written in pencil. Sheryl McCollum says it would have taken a week back then for the letter to arrive, had it been mailed the day before. They think it was hand-stamped and made to look like it went through the mail, when it didn't. They deduce it was hand-delivered by perpetrator, if it was in fact delivered at all. Julie's Aunt, Sandy Harkom, thinks the letter was designed to throw them off. Mr. Wilson says he believes he knows who wrote the letter...Tommy. He says he has seen many samples of his handwriting, and it looks like his. Someone jumps in (I think Sheryl McCollum) and says some analysis showed Tommy at least wrote the envelope, but then they came back and said, "No, you misunderstood." Sorry, this part was confusing, and I'm not sure I'm describing what they said correctly.

Here is where the guy in the California jacket is described by Renee’s father. This person exists and has information. They need to speak before they leave this world.

 

[Ozoner]

Let’s try this. Here is the article with 90 witnesses. It also states that the girls were seen with one individual but authorities believe there was more than one involved. These are facts.

The police interviewed a total of ninety witnesses; nowhere does it say that ninety witnesses saw the girls at the mall. There may have been witnesses from the army-navy store, witnesses to the state of Rachel and Tommy's marriage, witnesses who saw Rachel's car in a different location, etc. The article also gets the facts wrong: it says that the girls' Christmas purchases were locked in the car, implying that the girls had completed their shopping at the mall. We know from many sources that the only gift in the car was one that had been purchased previously; Lisa's jeans from the army-navy store were in the trunk, too. There was nothing from the mall.

Security guard Bill Hutchins claims that he saw the girls in the company of another security guard, Danny Wilson, who wasn't interviewed for many years. That may be what the article means when it says that the girls were seen with one person. Wilson, now dead, denied interacting with the girls.

If the reference is to the person seen by record-shop guy, I've never seen that person named. Record-shop guy didn't seem positive that the person was actually with the girls; he said that the person "appeared to be with them."

So far as I know, no one has identified the guy in the California jacket, either. It's unclear whether he was the same person seen by record-shop guy. Are you suggesting that you know who the guy in the California jacket was? If you believe that you do, I would love to see a source for his identification.

 

[MissLaura]

I've attached the 3/30/2001 article.

This version of the article says "...detectives detailed new developments in the case, including 20 new witnesses, some of whom saw 9-year-old Julie Ann Moseley, 14-year-old Renee Wilson, and 17-year-old Rachel Trlica at the Seminary South mall Dec.23, 1974, the day they disappeared."

The article also mentions that detectives have narrowed the number of suspects to "under five."

Eyewitness testimony isn't very reliable and adding in the number of years passed between 1974 and 2001, I take it with a grain of salt. It's curious that LE sounded like they were pretty close to solving this, but it seems like their new leads back then didn't lead to anything.

 

[puddintain]

The police interviewed a total of ninety witnesses; nowhere does it say that ninety witnesses saw the girls at the mall. There may have been witnesses from the army-navy store, witnesses to the state of Rachel and Tommy's marriage, witnesses who saw Rachel's car in a different location, etc. The article also gets the facts wrong: it says that the girls' Christmas purchases were locked in the car, implying that the girls had completed their shopping at the mall. We know from many sources that the only gift in the car was one that had been purchased previously; Lisa's jeans from the army-navy store were in the trunk, too. There was nothing from the mall.

Security guard Bill Hutchins claims that he saw the girls in the company of another security guard, Danny Wilson, who wasn't interviewed for many years. That may be what the article means when it says that the girls were seen with one person. Wilson, now dead, denied interacting with the girls.

If the reference is to the person seen by record-shop guy, I've never seen that person named. Record-shop guy didn't seem positive that the person was actually with the girls; he said that the person "appeared to be with them."

So far as I know, no one has identified the guy in the California jacket, either. It's unclear whether he was the same person seen by record-shop guy. Are you suggesting that you know who the guy in the California jacket was? If you believe that you do, I would love to see a source for his identification.

You are entitled to believe what you like. Wonder why Mr. Wilson believes the sighting of a man in a California jacket? Maybe you should contact him. I’m positive he knows this case better than any of us.

 

[Hobgoblinmarket]

That's a good question. It sounds like gossip to me. I remain unconvinced that the girls ever made it to the mall (although they might have).

Ty.

 

[Ozoner]

You are entitled to believe what you like. Wonder why Mr. Wilson believes the sighting of a man in a California jacket? Maybe you should contact him. I’m positive he knows this case better than any of us.

I'd love to see Mr. Wilson join Websleuths and become a verified insider, but it would be against the terms of service to contact a family member of a victim.
Supposedly Mr. Wilson's suspect is unknown to the public. I would love to o find out about that suspect.

 

[puddintain]

I'd love to see Mr. Wilson join Websleuths and become a verified insider, but it would be against the terms of service to contact a family member of a victim.
Supposedly Mr. Wilson's suspect is unknown to the public. I would love to o find out about that suspect.

Seek and ye shall find. It is not unknown. Maybe this can be the beginning of your search into this person. I would believe of all connected that Mr. Wilson is the sharpest tool in these girls shed. However, at his age he most likely is not to internet savvy.

 

[Ozoner]

I'm not sure whether it's been posted before, but the essay entitled "Portrait of a 'True Crime' Character," on page 23 of this journal, is a long-form treatment of this case. The author, whose focus is on Rusty's quest to solve his sister's disappearance, talked to several people connected to the case. The link is to a PDF file.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.themayborn.com/sites/default/files/Ten%20Spurs%202019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj_4NSZn8TrAhWhAp0JHcwbCywQFjAAegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw39dYC0usId6o4WHZy9rnO_

 

[puddintain]

I'm not sure whether it's been posted before, but the essay entitled "Portrait of a 'True Crime' Character," on page 23 of this journal, is a long-form treatment of this case. The author, whose focus is on Rusty's quest to solve his sister's disappearance, talked to several people connected to the case. The link is to a PDF file.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.themayborn.com/sites/default/files/Ten%20Spurs%202019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj_4NSZn8TrAhWhAp0JHcwbCywQFjAAegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw39dYC0usId6o4WHZy9rnO_

FA and RA have both been caught in twisting facts. I wouldn’t listen to a whole lot that they are the only source on. Jmho

 

[Ozoner]

FA and RA have both been caught in twisting facts. I wouldn’t listen to a whole lot that they are the only source on. Jmho

I've been trying to dig up the name of Richard Wilson's suspect—no dice. Presumably it's someone different than the names we're used to hearing. (Mike DeBardeleben; Robin Carter; Billy Simpson, Sr.; and Danny Wilson are the only non-family suspects that I can remember being discussed here; am I forgetting anybody?)

 

[puddintain]

I've been trying to dig up the name of Richard Wilson's suspect—no dice. Presumably it's someone different than the names we're used to hearing. (Mike DeBardeleben; Robin Carter; Billy Simpson, Sr.; and Danny Wilson are the only non-family suspects that I can remember being discussed here; am I forgetting anybody?)

You’ve listed more “SUSPECTS” than that. The name is not mine to give out. My point is that if he believes this person was the last person to be with the girls, there is probably truth to it.
How did this person and the girls part ways? What did the girls say they were headed to do when they parted ways? Did the girls leave the mall with said person?
In the article Botcher states they were seen with one individual but that more were involved. That leads me to believe he thinks this person could very well be involved but others were involved also.
Evidently police and family members believe the girls were at that mall. Who are we to change that. I’m positive if they believe that, they have good reason.

 

[Paul B.]

Julie is the most effecting victim for me because she was nine and because it was Christmas time.

 

[Hobgoblinmarket]

I had never seen that article where its stated they believed the girls left with someone they knew.

 

[Ozoner]

I had never seen that article where its stated they believed the girls left with someone they knew.

That might simply be their position because there were no signs of a struggle. I don't take it to mean that the police have a particular person in mind.

 

[FW_Froggy]

That might simply be their position because there were no signs of a struggle. I don't take it to mean that the police have a particular person in mind.

IMO The "under five" suspects LE had 20 years ago are still the suspects they have today and California Jacket is NO mystery to people who have followed this case extensively. LE has everybody's statements so they know who has been lying. Unfortunately without a body this case will go on another 45 years and ALL the suspects will be dead.

 

[puddintain]

Tha

IMO The "under five" suspects LE had 20 years ago are still the suspects they have today and California Jacket is NO mystery to people who have followed this case extensively. LE has everybody's statements so they know who has been lying. Unfortunately without a body this case will go on another 45 years and ALL the suspects will be dead.

That is my fear. That’s sad too. There has to be justice somewhere for these people. Anyone that could live this long with doing whatever it is they did and not say a word, that is a VERY DANGEROUS individual and/or individuals. Quite scary to think they could be our neighbor or the person beside us at the grocery store.
Since the information about the Nancy Grace podcast is on here, is the writing analysis and m the table for discussion. I believe that to be VERY interesting. That pesky letter.

 

[Ozoner]

Tha

That is my fear. That’s sad too. There has to be justice somewhere for these people. Anyone that could live this long with doing whatever it is they did and not say a word, that is a VERY DANGEROUS individual and/or individuals. Quite scary to think they could be our neighbor or the person beside us at the grocery store.
Since the information about the Nancy Grace podcast is on here, is the writing analysis and m the table for discussion. I believe that to be VERY interesting. That pesky letter.

It sounds like you're assuming that whoever wrote the letter killed the girls.
It's difficult to see anyone besides Tommy or Debra having an opportunity to write the letter. To me, the handwriting looks like Tommy's. I haven't seen the Nancy Grace podcast, but I'll watch it when I have the chance.
Tommy has apparently passed two polygraph tests, so I guess you could also say, "Those pesky polygraph tests." Tommy also has an alibi supplied by Rachel's parents.

 

[puddintain]

It sounds like you're assuming that whoever wrote the letter killed the girls.
It's difficult to see anyone besides Tommy or Debra having an opportunity to write the letter. To me, the handwriting looks like Tommy's. I haven't seen the Nancy Grace podcast, but I'll watch it when I have the chance.
Tommy has apparently passed two polygraph tests, so I guess you could also say, "Those pesky polygraph tests." Tommy also has an alibi supplied by Rachel's parents.

Then your assumption would be wrong. One does not necessarily equal the other. Getting the car back just doesn’t hold water to me.
Some people can pass lie detector tests especially those 45 years ago. Why would they give a person that passed the first one a second one? How could he pass without explaining the letter? No Tommy has NEVER admitted to writing this letter.
Also, if you assume that I believe just because a person was the last verified person to be seen with the girls means that person is involved, you would be incorrect again.
I do not see how one could count either out.
There are two different stories of the whereabouts of Cotton that day given by Frances. I wish we could see the first statement given to fwpd. I would trust the words of the neighbor she helped get ready for a party. I would also trust medical records showing that Cotton had a cancer treatment that morning making it impossible for him to do as Tommy claimed.
I cannot presume anything other than the facts placed before me. Obviously I don’t know what happened that day. I’m just trying to connect the dots of facts.