Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

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Eloise said:
People keep bringing this up but this is the least hinky part of it, to me. For example I know a family with four kids; the youngest is five years younger than the second youngest and when she was preschool aged she'd stay at home while the older three went to their grandmother's (who lived four hours away). For a few reasons: it's easier on the grandmother to be dealing with older children; and even safe with family, a week or two away from home is a long time without parents for a 3 or 4 year old. Plus it gave her parents time alone with her that they otherwise don't get.
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Really, for me the only way it would register on the old WS Hinky Meter, is if it wasn't a common thing for this family, or if some reason was given that didn't sit well with the grandparents.

I expect we'll hear from extended family sooner rather than later.

jmo
 
Peppery said:
That’s why they make bedroom doors with locks. I’ll bet nearly every parent in the world has distracted young children with a white lie when they need privacy. Like “Mommy’s taking a shower/laying down/folding clothes, let’s watch a movie/cook dinner/read a book/play with your Legos.” Plus the good old fashioned No, you can’t go in that room right now.
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Disney Plus was very handy when wrapping presents :)​
 
Ontario Mom said:
Really, for me the only way it would register on the old WS Hinky Meter, is if it wasn't a common thing for this family, or if some reason was given that didn't sit well with the grandparents.

I expect we'll hear from extended family sooner rather than later.

jmo
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If my son had six kids, there’s no way I would take them all. Lol. That’s way too many to have at once.
 
kyrarose said:
If my son had six kids, there’s no way I would take them all. Lol. That’s way too many to have at once.
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same. i dont like more than one under 5 at a time. unfortunately, i found that out when i had my second lol but i waited 15 years to have another. i also purposely spaced my last to when the youngest step kid was 5 and up. i really wouldnt take a church of little kids that arent mine to care for.
 
MichelleBlue said:
IMO I think whatever happened to the boys was not accidental. When the truth surfaces I think it will be one of brutal abuse & possibly neglect. I wish people would do the right thing & admit what they have done so that the boys can be located.
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I gotta agree with you. I’m leaning toward child abuse/neglect resulting in death. I think (and this is my opinion) the primary caregiver emotionally, physically and mentally snapped after progressive child maltreatment. It may have been a coping mechanism for stress (taking their frustrations out on someone who can’t fight back) TW mentioned the pandemic for a reason, possibly blaming whatever happened on COVID-19. The move to Cal City possibly could have been triggered by reasons unknown to us at this time. Trigger circumstances and consequences combined with need to pack - logistically planning to move a family of eight with six children moving about underneath parent’s feet, all cooped up inside due to covid restrictions - the kids are bored, upset, squabbling with one another, hungry, etc. etc. Moving is a top stressor in life events along with others such as births, deaths, marriages, divorces and unemployment. I think someone is covering for and protecting someone including themselves. And now they’re in too deep to alter their story. I think the one who feels the most guilt will confess.
 
Rachelj1 said:
Thanks adoptive parents I meant. Yes, it was explained on the Nancy Grace Podcast. The adoptive mother said that’s the reason they were outside .
‎Crime Stories with Nancy Grace: Precious brothers 3 and 4 years old VANISH! on Apple Podcasts
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In their interview the dad said, My wife was inside, "she's actually wrapping gifts" so we thought it was a good idea for our youngest boys to play outside. He didn't mention that they still believed in Santa.

I agree with the guest who said their story doesn't add up and it's hard to believe the boys vanished that fast with the dad outside with them.

He claimed as soon as he saw the open gate he panicked. It just doesn't make sense that he would then go inside and search the house with his wife instead of immediately rushing to the gate and looking all around the immediate vicinity. He had just been inside so how could he have missed them coming in the house?

As for the parent's belief that they were picked up by someone, I think by now LE has footage of every car that went through the neighborhood.

Yet we have heard nothing from LE asking for information about a certain vehicle.

I wish they would provide an update soon.
 
The boys were adopted in April 2019. How old were they back then? Babies. It’s possible the parents had unrealistic expectations as to how the little boys would change the dynamics of the family composition. Couple that with a possible lack of understanding how the babies needs might interfere and conflict with the older children’s wants. Six kids? It’s a lot. I’m the oldest of six stair steppers. I do not know how Mama survived. I had four kids under the age of five. Looking back, my mind goes mostly to the sweet pleasures and family pride. I do remember those days, weeks, I wanted to pull my hair out and my husband’s too! Cause he was lucky. He got to go to work and escape.
 
Lusitana said:
I don't see things that way though. All the families that I know that do send their children to grandparents, usually if one child goes, all of them go
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We always joke & tell our daughter that if she sent all 3 grandgifts together we would “divorce” her lol. Of course we have on many times kept all 3 together but normally it is the youngest with an older sibling (ages 6, 12 & 14) or one at a time.
 
Eloise said:
BBM. Yes, they are. That's why I gave an example of a completely normal, happy, functioning family who didn't send their youngest (when they were preschool age) hours away to a grandparents. I don't think LE have expressed concern that they weren't with the grandparents?
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IMO the discussion is kind of moot. Some grandparents may take 6 grandkids at a time while others take turns. My brother had 5 kids and generally my parents had 2 or 3 over at a time for multiple day visits. I don't see the relevance of trying to guess the reasoning of the grandparents in this case.

I'm not trying to be harsh and certainly not judging anyone but there's been nothing in msm to explain why the two boys were left behind. It could be smoke and mirrors or it could be a legitimate reason.

However, I'm really interested in who saw the boys last and when. No one has come forward to say when they last saw the boys and IMO that's surprising given the length of time they've been missing.
 
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MsBetsy said:
As for the parent's belief that they were picked up by someone, I think by now LE has footage of every car that went through the neighborhood.

Yet we have heard nothing from LE asking for information about a certain vehicle.

I wish they would provide an update soon.
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MsBetsy I sure appreciate your views over the past few years, thank you.

Many times I get more clues from what LE doesn’t say ya know? MOO below:
  • I think with all the porch cams collected LE was able to account for each vehicle/person in close proximity to their house during the short timeframe of the AP’s story.
  • I think the search for the boys “alive” has been a big red flag with LE from the beginning. They have proof from inside the house/van that has them focused on their own path of truths.
  • I keep taking wee breaks from this case because of all the jibber jabbing or rumors, hearsay, & embellishments on stories. I love WS’ing on this site because we try our best to stick with the facts. Yes, I am guilty myself of letting my emotions take the reigns & misspeak away from the facts only especially with children involved. We are human after all. But boy do I wish we could pull our tongues back a bit & focus on reliable FACTS per WS rules.
  • “Steps down from the podium”
 
Bbybluz said:
MsBetsy I sure appreciate your views over the past few years, thank you.

Many times I get more clues from what LE doesn’t say ya know? MOO below:
  • I think with all the porch cams collected LE was able to account for each vehicle/person in close proximity to their house during the short timeframe of the AP’s story.
  • I think the search for the boys “alive” has been a big red flag with LE from the beginning. They have proof from inside the house/van that has them focused on their own path of truths.
  • I keep taking wee breaks from this case because of all the jibber jabbing or rumors, hearsay, & embellishments on stories. I love WS’ing on this site because we try our best to stick with the facts. Yes, I am guilty myself of letting my emotions take the reigns & misspeak away from the facts only especially with children involved. We are human after all. But boy do I wish we could pull our tongues back a bit & focus on reliable FACTS per WS rules.
  • “Steps down from the podium”
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Bbm
Agreed, I think LE have a fairly full picture of what happened.

Trusting them to put this puzzle together and find answers.
I've taken a break from this case today as well but keep checking in for any updates.
So thanks, everyone !
 
Knox said:
Perla Shaheen@perlashaheen
TWO MISSING BOYS IN CALIFORNIA CITY UPDATE: Tomorrow at 4pm via Zoom, California City City Council will decide whether to put up a $25,000 reward for anyone who can help with the investigation.
https://twitter.com/perlashaheen/status/1347010646827700229

Zoom Link to CC Meeting at Link-
Special Council Meeting
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that’s interesting, don’t think I’ve seen a special city council meeting about a MP reward before. I know rewards rarely work but somebody knows something about what happened to O&O, please speak up!
 
Would be interested to see how long they've had this van and what car they had previously. As much as I hate saying it, I think they've taken a lot of steps to cover up things. Things that they might have done if they're covering up murder. Moved cities, parked van strategically daily, gave reasons of why neighbors haven't seen kids playing outside, have remained extremely tight lipped/haven't broke to LE.

Yeah, the van presumably came back clean. But they could've anticipated the van would be searched. What were they driving previously? If they murdered the kids and the bodies haven't been found, they had to have been transported.
 
Peppery said:
that’s interesting, don’t think I’ve seen a special city council meeting about a MP reward before. I know rewards rarely work but somebody knows something about what happened to O&O, please speak up!
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I'm a little mystified about the community searches too. I think someone else mentioned it may be a way to focus local energy and for the community to unite. There's no doubt residents really care about Orson & Orrin and want to help. If someone saw something and didn't want to come forward, a sizeable reward could make a difference.

I wonder if LE has received the cell phone records back yet? Or some of the forensic results from the lab? Also wonder if that van has a GPS or EVI system? I thought it was interesting TW said in the interview "they took our tech". I can't recall someone calling their cell phones or computers tech before, almost an industry term? Does that indicate he has a higher than average knowledge and awareness of what kind of evidence they would contain?

ETA- if all the recent photo's of the boys were on the confiscated phones. Would LE download and share a few additional photo's with the media?
 
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