Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #61

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What about personal revelations? At some point Lori stated to MG that she was told of her mission by Jesus himself and MG believed her. What if Lori still bellieves (or feigns) that she's receiving instructions from a deity? Wouldn't that be classified as delusions?

Those are good questions. Hallucinations qualify as a mental illness, IMO.
Personal revelations can be wishful interpretations of normal events. Are they mental illness? I think not.
Telling people you are personally receiving instructions from a deity is lying.
I am not a mental health expert, just a person with the opinion that religious faith is not a mental illness. People who claim it is have their own issues, IMO.
 
What about personal revelations? At some point Lori stated to MG that she was told of her mission by Jesus himself and MG believed her. What if Lori still bellieves (or feigns) that she's receiving instructions from a deity? Wouldn't that be classified as delusions?

Hope not, sometimes this happens to me, but doesn't involve murders.

Picking a grad school is rather vanilla, I know, but....

jmho ymmv lrr
 
What if....

LV is legitimately mentally diminished to the point of not realizing what she has done is wrong?

Do we as a society have a responsibility to try to bring her back to reality before convicting her?

Imo, crazy or not, she must be held accountable for her crimes. Multiple people died and her being crazy should not be an acceptable reason in the eyes of the law to dismiss her from facing the legal consequences attached to her actions.

I think for me it breaks off into 2 questions.

1. Is it just to put someone on trial who is unable to defend themselves?

A: While it may not be ideal I think it is just if a competent defense team conducts her defense for her

2: Does society have a duty to help someone who is mentally handicapped understand the nature of the crime the committed.

A: I believe we do have a responsibility to invest a reasonable amount of effort and resources in making that person aware of what they did wrong.

I am curious what other posters opinions are about this who insanity angle. I personally think she may very well be legitimately crazy. If she isn't faking it, there is moral question it raises.
 
She fabricated a story that Charles was trying to kill her the day before he was due to pick up JJ and take him for breakfast. And that he was abusive and enraged and going after her with a bat. She knew she had to find justification for killing him that her family and friends and law enforcement would accept. That's not insanity it's engineering an excuse, trying to get away with murder, and it's complete awareness that it was wrong. moo
 
She fabricated a story that Charles was trying to kill her the day before he was due to pick up JJ and take him for breakfast. And that he was abusive and enraged and going after her with a bat. She knew she had to find justification for killing him that her family and friends and law enforcement would accept. That's not insanity it's engineering an excuse, trying to get away with murder, and it's complete awareness that it was wrong. moo


Who knows how Lori is now? Not me.

Of course, if she can hide her actions, turn the zombie crazy off while being interviewed by the police, etc., she can participate in her defense. We don’t know if she is still able to do this.

I find it very unlikely that Lori is the same right now. If she were, the prosecutors would not have dropped their objection.

Crazy and competent are not the same thing, as I see it. She only has to be competent, not necessarily sane.

If she is “crazy” and believes she is a goddess, she could still be competent if she were making decisions about her defense, and has a grasp on the realistic consequences of asserting this. If she planned to present as her defense that her victims were indeed zombies, and knew that the jury would basically take that as a confession and convict her, she would be competent. Or, she could chose to say nothing because mortals don’t get it. That would be a competent person who is crazy.

I speculate Lori is not making choices as she did when she interviewed with the police. I trust that people who have seen her recently know better than I do.

I am not going to get into what we as a society owe her. I have my own opinions but I think that however they swing- thirst for blood or calls for compassion-they are irrelevant. And they could cause pain to the surviving victims. Some might want to torture her. Some may want her treated with mercy. I am not going to upstage them.
 
What about personal revelations? At some point Lori stated to MG that she was told of her mission by Jesus himself and MG believed her. What if Lori still bellieves (or feigns) that she's receiving instructions from a deity? Wouldn't that be classified as delusions?
Or how about flat out lying?
 
What about personal revelations? At some point Lori stated to MG that she was told of her mission by Jesus himself and MG believed her. What if Lori still bellieves (or feigns) that she's receiving instructions from a deity? Wouldn't that be classified as delusions?


You can suffer from (or enjoy!) delusions and still be competent. I am inclined to believe that Lori sincerely believed she was before Jesus. I will take her word for it, but she could have been lying, which she also does easily.

She still went about her very unusual life competently. It is possible she had delusions then and was competent, and has delusions now and is incompetent.
 
You can suffer from (or enjoy!) delusions and still be competent. I am inclined to believe that Lori sincerely believed she was before Jesus. I will take her word for it, but she could have been lying, which she also does easily.

She still went about her very unusual life competently. It is possible she had delusions then and was competent, and has delusions now and is incompetent.
So basically, you are saying the interpretation of a mental illness or competency for LV just depends on the person evaluating her and their limited or vast experience?
Sheesh.
I’m no psychologist, no expert. But IMO, she is just a liar, using anyone and everyone for her own greed. And she is very competent in getting away with it. Till now.
 

What if....


LV is legitimately mentally diminished to the point of not realizing what she has done is wrong?

I am curious what other posters opinions are about this who insanity angle. I personally think she may very well be legitimately crazy. If she isn't faking it, there is moral question it raises.

BBM
Idaho law requires a defendant to be able to understand what is happening in court and to be able to assist their lawyers in their own defense. They do not need to be sane.

Idaho does not allow the use of mental condition as a defense for any crime. "Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct."Idaho Code §18–207(1)

In my opinion, "mental condition" is a broad term that encompasses multiple illnesses and disabilities.

Diagnosed lifelong mental illness is not a roadblock to Idaho prosecutors seeking harsh
punishmentsincluding the death penalty.

U.S. Supreme Court has refused to consider whether a criminal defendant has a constitutional right to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. Supreme Court rejects insanity defense appeal

Below is a link to a prior Websleuth's post with links to mainstream media sources to all of the above statements. The post also includes links to articles about two Idaho defendants with histories of diagnosed mental illnesses and hospitalizations who were found incompetent to stand trial, but were restored to face death penalty charges.

Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #59

Do we as a society have a responsibility to try to bring her back to reality before convicting her?
Bold and italics by me.

I think that is the purpose of "restoration". I've read the bar to achieving it is low. Ultimately, though, my understanding is that what will matter is LV's state of mind during the entire year she was premeditating slaying her own husband and minor children as well as her lover's wife while calculating with the lover, via text, the potential $dollars going into their piggy banks as a result of the murdersnot LV's state of mind when she was deemed incompetent.

Just my opinion. moo & imo.
 
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Didn’t Mark Sievers have both a State attorney and a Death Penalty attorney right to the end?

MOO
I had to rack my brains and then do some digging to confirm what I recalled. Faga Law was the law firm privately hired by Mark Sievers. They were approved to continue as main counsel despite the fact they were not DP approved. At some point during the process, Sievers was declared indigent so since the taxpayers were footing the bill, his law firm was not allowed to hire their own DP lawyer. Instead the court appointed a DP qualified attorney as co-counsel and his defense team was there till the end.
 
If we are going to start along this line, that people who believe in direct revelations from God are on the "Crazy Train" to incompetence, that is a huge slippery slope, because many people in the world believe that prophecy is real. That there are people who do receive direct revelation from God.
 
This is Chad's case #
Fremont County CR22-21-1623

This is Lori's
Fremont County CR22-21-1624

So yes - you are correct - it IS under Lori's case #.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/a...78050479070_7990718882508532448_n-jpg.307734/

Case 1623 and 1624 are joined cases. The grand jury indicted Chad and Lori together. When the state files anything, they will file it under both case numbers because of this. What is important is what is contained in the Notice itself. It states that the death penalty is being sought for CD. LV is not named.

It should also be noted that LV has not completed her initial hearing, it was continued. She still has to have her initial hearing in the Magistrate's Court, then she will have an arraignment in the District Court where she will enter her plea. Then, after she has entered a plea, the state has 60 days to file a Notice of Intent to seek the Death Penalty.
 
woo..she will be executed..if found guilty . I hope she has a good lawyer..she must want insanity so she can get treatment in a facility and then be released on the streets once she is clear of "mental illness" ... I will tell you no one is going to buy an insanity defense..they have her on tape..she is telling people to lie to police and say her daughter is at school or the movies.. not to mention how she profited from not having the expense off the children all the while receiving money for their care.

a jury will not buy it. mOO
 
woo..she will be executed..if found guilty . I hope she has a good lawyer..she must want insanity so she can get treatment in a facility and then be released on the streets once she is clear of "mental illness" ... I will tell you no one is going to buy an insanity defense..they have her on tape..she is telling people to lie to police and say her daughter is at school or the movies.. not to mention how she profited from not having the expense off the children all the while receiving money for their care.

a jury will not buy it. mOO

She has been found not competent to stand trial. Idaho doesn't have an insanity plea per se.
 
she's faking it..she has been looked at before for her crazy act and she snaps right out of it...I'm not a shrink but I thought Arizona had the insanity plea or something like this...I guess I need to study up! so she will face trial in Idaho? will she have different charges in different states? mOO
 
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