Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*

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I believe GL's current wife will play an important role in how this pans out. Pure speculation is incoming..

If you are camping away solo for a night or more, you will often let those in your immediate circle know at least the general area and duration of time you will be gone.

GL would of either had to change his story about where he camped upon return or feign ignorance to his wife and also police upon initial questioning, "I didn't see them/I camped elsewhere, saw nothing, etc." Let alone the state of mind he was in upon return, calm/calculated or not I think it's important later on.

The painting of the car/selling of the trailer, while car paint fades and trailers rust. These are still not everyday things you do. Had he spoken about doing these things for a while or impulsively painted the car and sold the old trailer at the drop of a hat shortly after returning?

The public reveal a year on that the police were searching for a blue nissan/trailer combo similar to what GL had recently changed. I find it hard to believe that GL's current wife had no awareness of this news case in her own neighbourhood. Did she confront him at the time, or did she.. contact the police privately.

The argument between the two prior to GL arrest. (I cant find a reference to this anymore) Was she brave enough to confront him with her suspicions? Or just a misdirected alternate argument.

It just strikes me as odd that the LE have gone straight to 2x murder without a strong witness, unless they have one up their sleeve already.

I wonder if his wife was afraid of him?

I'm thinking generally now, as I have no clue about this particular marriage, but in some marriages one partner is the aggressor. I'm going to say "he" as most of the time the male is the aggressor. If the male is aggressive, prone to anger, controlling, intimidating, even violent, then the female may not even question his whereabouts, or why he has a different coloured motorcycle.
 
Are we allowed to wonder if GL was a SK under the subjudice contempt rules? If so, it's just as possible they came upon GL murdering someone, or disposing of a victims body, in which case he might kill both of them regardless of age and sex.

I was wondering the same thing…if I’m allowed to, that is ;]

The missing drone raises questions..
 
He is a theory: RC had been flying the drone over GL and GL was not a happy camper. GL proceeded by foot to where RH & CC were camped. When he arrived RC had already moved some distance away to make the call. CC was at the camp. GL enquired as to why the drone was flying above his camp. CC said to GL you would need to go and ask RC and he is " up there " she points GL in the direction of RC. As GL nears RC he overhears the conversation adn the minute RC is off the call GL confronts RC over the drone. A tussle ensues and RC is killed. GL returns to where CC is located and has to now kill her. He then coordinates a plan to pack up his camp which he does. He then loads the bodies into the trailer. Torches their campsite and takes off. The bodies have traveled with him back to Melbourne and been disposed of well away from the mountains. Feasible?
 
I have had a few questions re the campsite and relative distances to other camps , Long drop etc so I have marked up a map. All markings are approximate only.
Red circle 1. RH and CC tent site
Orange circle 2. Concrete fire pit
Light blue circles 3. Other well used camping spots
Yellow ellipse 4. Suspension bridge
White square 5. Long drop toilet.
I hope this helps you get some perspective of the area.

There is quite a large area around the fire pit that people could camp as long as you dont mind camping under trees (generally to be avoided as gums drop limps without warning) There are areas that are safe as well close to the fire pit.
 

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For a silencer to be effective you need to use sub sonic ammunition. If you use standard ammo then as soon as the projectile leaves the end of the silencer there is a loud crack (sonic boom on a small scale) therefore defeating the reason for using a silencer ( I know this from being a bit of a rebel in my youth). I believe it is an offense to even own a silencer let alone use one. Although there are many other things people have that are technically illegal I suppose.

Hi, Motomike. Your insight here is much appreciated! There seems to be an absence of any reports of gun-fire being heard in the vicinity of the valley on the evening in question. I've personally never fired a weapon, but have often gone for bush walks on the outskirts of Perth, up in the Darling Scarp and not too far from Orange Grove Shooting Association (A shooting range in an abandoned quarry).

The trails are a couple of km's away (as the crow flies) and are separated from the shooting range not only by the trees, but the contours of the scarp itself. Despite this, if one walks there while the range is operating, the sound of gunfire is unmistakable. Not perceptibly loud, but echoes clearly through the valley at a level noteably above the ambience of the wind in the trees.

May I ask, do you personally think that it's possible that gun fire could have occurred so relatively close to other campers and not noticed, whether with or without any type of noise suppression?

I hope that at least some semblance of peace and resolution is found for both Russell's and Carol's families and all who knew, them including yourself.

Cheers
 
I'm guessing there were other factors unknown to us that were involved. It sounds like a terribly sad situation for all concerned.

Agree completely. Very sad.
I made the comment in a general context, but of course, he wasn’t welcome.

And I misread your initial post, got it now! My head does backflips when I’m thinking about this stuff and looking at things from many different angles, so I read some things in different ways :S
 
Police narrow in on Wonnangatta campers' remains | Gippsland Times

Today, forensics specialists began searching for human remains in bushland north of Dargo, borrowing local earthmoving equipment. Missing Persons Squad detectives are being assisted by specialist resources, including Search and Rescue and Major Crime Scene Unit. The area is known to have numerous unmarked mine shafts.

Victoria Police Crime Command Assistant Commissioner Bob Hill said he was hopeful police would be able to find the deceased, and provide closure to the Hill and Clay families.
“We are hoping this arrest brings us a step closer to providing the answers the families have been desperately seeking and richly deserve,” he said.
Assistant Commissioner Hill told media last Thursday evening no other person was being sought in relation to this investigation.
 
Police ramp up search for camper remains - Riverine Herald

Hotels are fully booked as police descend on a small country town ready to begin a painstaking search for the remains of two campers missing in Victoria's high country.

More specialist officers arrived in Dargo on Monday afternoon as police scaled up their search for Russell Hill and Carol Clay, who have been missing for 20 months.
 
Police search old mining site for bodies of allegedly murdered campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay

The head of the Victoria Police Missing Persons Squad has arrived at a remote area of bushland in the state's high country to help search for the remains of missing campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill.

Car loads of extra police joined a small contingent who had spent the weekend guarding an area near the old gold mining town of Grant, north-west of Dargo.

Those who joined included officers from the search and rescue and major crime scene units, as well as Inspector Andrew Stamper, who heads up the Missing Persons Squad.

A campsite in the area has become the latest focus in a search for the pair's remains, since police first started scouring the area last week.
Officers were seen on Monday afternoon towing an all-terrain buggy out to the search site.
 
Hi, Motomike. Your insight here is much appreciated! There seems to be an absence of any reports of gun-fire being heard in the vicinity of the valley on the evening in question. I've personally never fired a weapon, but have often gone for bush walks on the outskirts of Perth, up in the Darling Scarp and not too far from Orange Grove Shooting Association (A shooting range in an abandoned quarry).

The trails are a couple of km's away (as the crow flies) and are separated from the shooting range not only by the trees, but the contours of the scarp itself. Despite this, if one walks there while the range is operating, the sound of gunfire is unmistakable. Not perceptibly loud, but echoes clearly through the valley at a level noteably above the ambience of the wind in the trees.

May I ask, do you personally think that it's possible that gun fire could have occurred so relatively close to other campers and not noticed, whether with or without any type of noise suppression?

I hope that at least some semblance of peace and resolution is found for both Russell's and Carol's families and all who knew, them including yourself.

Cheers
I think if there was gunfire of any sort around RH and CC camp it would have been heard. It is very quiet in the valley at night. You can usually hear dingos howling in the hills around the valley, deer honking etc all of which may be many kilometers away from where you are camping. A gunshot after dark would be an unusual thing as hunting for deer with spotlight is illegal. A gunshot around early morning or late afternoon, towards dusk would be thought of as deer hunters in my opinion.
 
Hi Motomike, it’s fantastic to have your input on here. Just one point, about the night gunshots, many hunters up this way (I live in the Vic High Country in a small town frequented by deer hunters), they frequently use infra red night vision goggles when hunting at night.

Secondly I have been told that it is not legal to spotlight for deer so any shots heard after dark would be very suspicious.

Another thing I would like to add is a bit of context, the Myrtelford gate as we know was closed due to fire damage, not far north and east of Wonnangatta we had severe fires that had only just finished (we came off the fireline clean up in early March) and I imagine he was busting to get up there as it had been closed for quite some time due to fires and Victorians were advised in 10 March that we likely had a lockdown of sorts looming.

People have mentioned the deer hunting, while I don’t agree with leaving the carcasses as it attracts and feeds the wild dogs up here, hunting them is good for our environment as they are a feral introduced species overrunning our beautiful alpine wilderness. Think of it as an ongoing culling process.

It’s great reading all of your summising and fact checking and hopefully the families if all involved get some answers and a closure of sorts soon.
 
Good point about the gunshots not being heard. One thing I think it may be is a silencer was used for the gun.
I have not seen anything from the police publicly at least, that firearms were heard on the evening of Mr Hill and Ms Clay's disappearance.
As for silencers, I posted links to two videos that show they do not work as depicted in the movies: Deceased/Not Found - Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*
Essentially, the round fired needs to be subsonic and the firearms that deer hunters use tend to be supersonic.
Pillows, sleeping bags and so on do not muffle the found of a gunshot nearly as much as people think. Specialist pistols can reduce the sound markedly
There seems to have been another person, and not driving the blue Nissan, camped near by. This is the agricultural worker referred to in the HS article and also interviewed by A Current Affair, that Judy posted.
On the information I've seen, I do not think that firearms were used to cause the death of Mr Hill and Ms Clay, but of course, I could be wrong.
 
I have not seen anything from the police publicly at least, that firearms were heard on the evening of Mr Hill and Ms Clay's disappearance.

Essentially, the round fired needs to be subsonic and the firearms that deer hunters use tend to be supersonic.

Deer are thin skinned animals and without going into detail you want to kill the animal quickly and humanely. The recoil is big and the rounds are loud. 30.06 is a popular round and it is a loud crack and thwacks your shoulder like buggery lol. It would have been very noticeable if it occurred at night at a campsite, and I am sure this would have occurred to the killer.
 
A Current Affair spoke to a man who claims he was working in the valley when GL and CC arrived. He says on March 20 last year — the same day GL was last known to be alive — at about 4.30pm, GL flew his drone from his own campsite along the river. He said the drone hovered over the workers' campsite before continuing to fly over other campsites. He’s since spoken to police about what he saw because he recalls encountering someone who made him feel uneasy who camped near RH’s and CC’s campsite.

The worker said the man asked him for directions to the best camp at the northern end of the valley and that the man ended up camping over the bank from RH’s and CC’s spot, so they could have easily set up their camp without realising the man was there.

Whether that person is Mr Lynn is still unclear.

Fresh insights into man arrested over missing Victoria campers

This is a great find by JudgeJudi. It clears up a few things and provides a possibly reliable data point: flying the drone.
This is the verbatim transcript from the A Current Affair [ACA] report:
00:00
Today [24 November], we've spoken to a man who says he was working in the valley when Russell and Carol arrived. He claims on March 20, the same day, Russell was last known to be alive, Russell was flying his drone, over his campsite down the river, at about 4:30 in the afternoon.
His drone hovered over this worker's campsite before moving to other campsites in the area as well.
This worker has spoken to police a number of times because he also encountered a man who made him feel uneasy who he says, also camped near Russell and Carol's campsite.
The worker says, the man asked him for directions to the best camp at the northern end of the valley. And that the man ended up camping, over the bank from Russell and Carol's spot. So Russell and Carol could have easily set up their camp without realising this man was there. Whether that person is indeed, Greg Lynn is unclear.
A few points:
1. Russell was flying the drone - not GL (as JJ said).
2. This was at about 16.30 - not in the evening as Lachlan Culican said on Under Investigation, reporting his conversation on or about 28 March, with a blackberry sprayer, who is likely identical with the man "working in the valley".
3. The worker was camped in the vicinity of Mr Hill and Ms Clay's campsite. He would like have heard any gunshot.
4. In all the public statements made by police, they say they believe someone else was camped in the same camping spot, which is accessed by a short track that opens to a clearing. In the middle, of the clearing, more or less, is a large tree and the river at the back. Mr Hill appears to have made his camp near the entrance on the left hand side as you enter the clearing, with the "prime spot", so called by the police, towards the rear of the clearing. [Motomike - is that correct?] It is the desirability of the camp spots and the location of Mr Hill's camp that seems to be a reason the police are saying someone else was camped in this clearing. Other witnesses say they saw the blue Nissan near the toilet or, as the police state, actually in the clearing.
5. The ACA report does not say whether the worker described the vehicle being driven by the man who asked directions and made him feel uneasy and the ACA report makes it clear that this information is not known to the reporter. HS, on the other hand, without citing how they came by the information, state: "The witness saw a man with a blue Nissan Patrol and trailer near the Wonnangatta campsite as early as Wednesday, March 18. He said the man was odd and that he stopped to ask for advice on the best campsites. It is not known if the man was Mr Lynn."
6. The worker says the unidentified man established camp "over the bank from Russell and Carol's spot". Where is this spot?
7. A HS report stated a witness "saw a man with a blue Nissan Patrol and trailer near the Wonnangatta campsite as early as Wednesday, March 18". This appears to be a reference to a person mentioned earlier in that story, a "bushland worker" who saw Mr Hill flying his drown "before nightfall". [Theodora and I commented on the vagueness of this report] I suspect the HS report is based on the ACA report, but that the HS reporter may not have paraphrased the ACA report accurately, which is unlike the high journalistic standards we have come to expect from the Murdoch-owned media platforms. :rolleyes:;) Or they could be worknig off a "tip off" from police, who are citing an interview. The use of the word, "witness" is interesting, as that is a formal description. The ACA report refers to "the worker".
8. It may be that the blackberry sprayer mentioned by Lachlan Culican, the "buchland worker" and "witness", mentioned by the HS and the "worker" interviewed by the ACA are differnet people; but enough of the story is similar to conclude that they are all the same person.
9. Police said they thought Mr Hill established camp, "late in the day". however, if he was flying his drone, I'd expect that to be after he established camp, which would appear to be no later than about 14.30, which is hardly "late in the day".
10. Finally, given Mr Culican spoke to the worker/blackberry sprayer on or about 28 March, because he was part of the police search effort, it seems likely that from early April police had identified vehicles of interest. This worker may also have heard the vehicle leave in the dead of night and, as the ACA report makes clear, police have spoken with him several times.
 
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