GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

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I commend Aneta and Deering love tge 4 devils comment! Great to see g4 so angry and disappointed. Shows his delusion . Can't wait to see his performance when jury comes back as guilty and when the needle goes in his arm.
Just wish mr manley could see it too. Rip
 
Noteworthy points in this video of the hearing

44:00 - 45:00 Defense begins argument, going back on what had been agreed upon in judge's chambers just prior to this hearing. He was not supposed to discuss details of Jake's proffer in this hearing

45:07 - AC reminds the judge about this and defense claims they have to talk about the evidence anyway.

45:22 - AC objects again to clarify that Jake won't be coming to testify at this hearing, nor Agent Scheiderer and evidence from Jake's proffer won't be discussed in that hearing. Defense attorney goes on to misrepresent what AC said, as if they are refusing the defense to present any of this evidence - ever.

46:19 - AC objects and asks judge if they can approach the bench.

49:42 - Defense tries to admit an exhibit, AC objects that they shouldn't do that as evidence is under seal and what they're trying to discuss isn't relevant to the argument they're making for the motion. Judge sustains AC's objection

49:06 - Judge Deering states that the court doesn't want to get into the position of trying the case before the trial. Judge states the exhibit is bits and pieces of Jake's proffer, which, overall is 12 hours long

50:59 - AC affirms that these are just small parts of Jakes 12 hour statement, mentions that he contradicted himself during that time. Those snippets are not representative of his entire statement Jake made. Sustained.

Defense attorney begins arguments to drop counts 1 through 8 against George. Makes some unusual argument that since we don't submit people with intellectual disabilities to the DP, then we should do the same for George. Makes a very dishonest argument. Judge points out the state has offered a plea deal to George. Defense atty admits the state offered a plea deal to George and he turned it down.

56:25 - Defense attorney states "the state made a deal with the devil". Tries to make it sound like Jake did it all himself, killed everyone himself.

57:09 - AC begins her rebuttal, during which she states there were 4 devils, etc.
Thank you @Betty P for doing this. It was very helpful! :)
 
My transcription of the hearing today.

Note: There may be errors. It was transcribed on the fly. Pardon grammar, some opinions, expletives have been deleted. My opinions are in parentheses w/ JMO

Some of the statements having to do with motions may have errors. Judge corrected himself a couple of times. Check the case file


George Wagner hearing 12/22/2021



George enters. Judge enters

Feb 2 9 am – another pre-trial hearing

Motion 61 – will be motion to exclude photos of guns, ammo, defense withdrawing

Other Acts – renewed as Motion 77 – state filed Feb 22 notice of intent to use Other Acts

Defense will file an objection to those. Will be filed before Jan 7, state respond Jan 21. Both sides can orally argue. Motions 75 and 64

Motion 73 – to dismiss murder and death penalty, oral argument today

Motion 62 – court denied

Motion 63 – government must reveal other agreements, motion was granted, court complied. State has continuing duty to provide any subsequent agreements

67, 68,69,70,

72

State met 70, motion re Jake’s mental health, quashed, satisfies motion 71

Reciprocal discovery, both sides granted, have until Dec 31

Transport Jake Wagner – state filed contra Def 75, defense replied. Court overruled motion to transport Jake. Court may consider depending on outcome of hearing today.

Admissibility of shoeprint evidence Jan 21 state has to file response

Motion 73 – Will be argued today. Some stipulations parties have entered into

Defense wants them to dismiss counts 1-8 and DP. Based on Jake Wagner’s proffer, according to Jake, George didn’t shoot anyone. Jake admitted to killing 5 and shooting a 6th. AC says Jake's entire proffer has different information about whether George shot anyone.

AC objects to discussion of any more evidence. Ask that court not consider it, according to stipulation they all agreed on. Apparently the defense is violating the stipulation. AC said defense trying to improperly leak information.

AC objecting again. Ask to approach. Defense keeps violating the rule. AC wants it on record.

(All of this should be heard at trial, defense trying their case in the news media) JMO

Defense exhibit one –

AC says court will not consider as evidence. Court sustains the objection. Court doesn’t want to try the case before the trial. He will allow them to talk about the exhibit, bits and pieces of Jake’s proffer.



(******** is trying to sway potential jury pool) JMO



Defense atty: These 10 snippets may not be the truth. Definite contradictory statements, also Jake and Angela Wagner.

Says its unfair to make GW subject to DP when Jake isn’t. (Just make him cut a plea deal). Defense asking that GW get DP off the table.

(JMO, they will use this same argument to get Billy off the hook) JMO

Claims state will dismiss DP for George eventually (not true, conjecture)

Judge asks if motion can be renewed.

Blah, blah, waste of state resources to continue to pursue DP against George.

Sounds like state doesn’t believe that Jake is telling the truth about George not shooting.

State has option to make a plea deal with George. They have made that offer and George rejected it. Defense says it doesn’t matter, George shouldn’t get the DP anyway.

George refused to make a plea agreement with the state

State is NOT stipulating that GW didn’t shoot anyone. Only according to Jake’s proffer

AC – made the same offer to all 4 co-defendants – Jake led to evidence, vehicle, details, etc. 12 hours. Offer was made available to all. Remorse is a factor court to consider. Sentence has not imposed sentence on Jake Wagner yet. If he doesn’t live up to the bargain, he will be subject to DP. Deal with devil, there are 4 devils in this case. Jake provided some peace to the victims, family, etc.

George Wagner stands the chance to get his DP charges dismissed. State hasn’t been capricious. Offered to all, same fair deal. Not grounds for reversal as long as a sentence is a legal sentence. It is in this case DP applies if jury recommends it. It’s a legal sentence. State vs Dean. OH Supreme Court ruled on it.

SCOTUS says DP is not cruel and unusual.

If Jake fulfills his end of the bargain, both he and George don’t face the DP. All treated equal. Complicity is treated the same principle offense, punishment is the same. Court not consider any references made to the motion. Not a complete rendition of what Jake said re his brother as a complicitor. Focusing on dispare treatment, were notified, Bill of Particulars also told them he could be prosecuted as a complicitor, DP specification also speaks in that language. Premeditated crime.

Asks judge to dismiss motion.

Judge – points of agreement, court may consider agreement made with Jake. Defense understands complicity argument. Says George never had intent to kill anyone (total BS JMO). AC says that argument should be saved for trial.

Court denies motion 73.

AC – Supplemental Discovery info. Dec 31. Change to Jan 7.



(Sounds like George Wagner turned down the plea deal in order to get pre-trial publicity about Jake’s proffer statements.) JMO
And thanks again @Betty P

It is greatly appreciated!
 

"Canepa said the death penalty would be removed from George's case if Jake testified against him, and that prosecutors only agreed Jake had exonerated his brother, not that they agreed with his choice.

"She added that all four Wagners were offered the same deal, but only Jake took it.

“I know he says we made a deal with the devil," she said. "Unfortunately, there is more than one devil in this case, and that is all four of the individuals who are charged.”
A key rebuttal to George's attorneys argument:

George won't face the death penalty if he goes to trial and Jake testifies against him.

If Jake testifies that George was a shooter and a jury finds him guilty, George still won't get the death penalty.

For someone who participated in the premeditated murders of 8 innocent people, that's a pretty good deal.

George's attorneys have submitted zero evidence in his defense. The state has plenty. When he stormed out of the courtroom after his hearing the other day, what was he thinking?
 
Happy Holidays WS Pals,
2021 has been a good year and may 2022 bring the final steps of justice. Wishing each of you all the best, and the Rhoden and Manley families continued steps towards closure.

Warm Wishes,
Tiff
 
Joining in on the good wishes!

Before family arrives and the cooking, gift wrapping (and unwrapping) and celebrating begin, I'm wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year/Happy Holidays!

Prayers and hugs for all those who are ill, who have lost loved ones and especially the Rhoden, Manyley, Gilley and other family members who have lost so much. You are always in my thoughts. Hopefully 2022 will bring justice for the surviving family and friends of the Rhodens and Hannah Gilley. Bless the children, too.

Best wishes for the Mods and Tricia and all the others who keep the Websleuths trains running on time.


Betty P
 
50:59 - AC affirms that these are just small parts of Jakes 12 hour statement, mentions that he contradicted himself during that time. Those snippets are not representative of his entire statement Jake made. Sustained.

Defense attorney begins arguments to drop counts 1 through 8 against George. Makes some unusual argument that since we don't submit people with intellectual disabilities to the DP, then we should do the same for George. Makes a very dishonest argument. Judge points out the state has offered a plea deal to George. Defense atty admits the state offered a plea deal to George and he turned it down.

Are they insinuating G4 has "intellectual disabilities"?

Thank you Betty for the great notes:)

JMO, MOO

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas to all!

May 2022 be a Healthy, Happy, and Bountiful year for us all!
 
Are they insinuating G4 has "intellectual disabilities"?

Thank you Betty for the great notes:)

JMO, MOO

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas to all!

May 2022 be a Healthy, Happy, and Bountiful year for us all!

No they are not insinuating G4 has intellectual disabilities.

The attorney was mentioning people that don't get subjected to the DP and said that George also should not be subjected to the DP because he didn't shoot anyone. Not because he has intellectual disabilities, but because he did not shoot anyone.

In other words George should be in the category of people who don't qualify for it.
 
Are they insinuating G4 has "intellectual disabilities"?

Thank you Betty for the great notes:)

JMO, MOO

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas to all!

May 2022 be a Healthy, Happy, and Bountiful year for us all!

Actually, in Motion #71, George's defense is accusing Jake of having mental illness.

They may have cancelled this Motion? Not sure. There are some they cancelled.
 
No they are not insinuating G4 has intellectual disabilities.

The attorney was mentioning people that don't get subjected to the DP and said that George also should not be subjected to the DP because he didn't shoot anyone. Not because he has intellectual disabilities, but because he did not shoot anyone.

In other words George should be in the category of people who don't qualify for it.
If so, that is one of the more desperate arguments they have made. They are trying to compare someone that is not intellectually able to make moral decisions between right and wrong to G4 who is/was perfectly able to know right from wrong. And to boot, G4 had plenty of time to make those moral decisions as to whether to help plan the murders, aide with the murders and help cover up after the murders.

G4, it's called conspiracy, not mental incompetence. IMO, they are night and day different.

JMO, MOO
 
If so, that is one of the more desperate arguments they have made. They are trying to compare someone that is not intellectually able to make moral decisions between right and wrong to G4 who is/was perfectly able to know right from wrong. And to boot, G4 had plenty of time to make those moral decisions as to whether to help plan the murders, aide with the murders and help cover up after the murders.

G4, it's called conspiracy, not mental incompetence. IMO, they are night and day different.

JMO, MOO

Yup.

The prosecution said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

Canepa said Jake, in his proffer, has George being complicit in the crimes. Judge Deering's ruling means that George will be tried on 8 counts of being complicit to murder as well as the other 14 charges.

What I want to see, what most of us want to see, is a jury convicting George of the 8 murders. Not just the other 14 counts, but specifically of the 8 murders.

All of them were offered plea deals and George and Billy apparently did not like the terms.

I have always thought George would not accept 30 years in a plea deal and would roll the dice for acquittal or for a sentence far under 30 years by going to trial.

What will happen?

I think with a trial he will get convicted of the 8 murders and get LWOP.

Then will wish he was getting out at age 57.
 
Yup.

The prosecution said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

Canepa said Jake, in his proffer, has George being complicit in the crimes. Judge Deering's ruling means that George will be tried on 8 counts of being complicit to murder as well as the other 14 charges.

What I want to see, what most of us want to see, is a jury convicting George of the 8 murders. Not just the other 14 counts, but specifically of the 8 murders.

All of them were offered plea deals and George and Billy apparently did not like the terms.

I have always thought George would not accept 30 years in a plea deal and would roll the dice for acquittal or for a sentence far under 30 years by going to trial.

What will happen?

I think with a trial he will get convicted of the 8 murders and get LWOP.

Then will wish he was getting out at age 57.
I also agree, I think he'll be convicted on the 8 murder counts, as well as the other 14.

This is just IMO, but I don't think there is a snowflake's chance in h*ll G4 will get the same 30 year deal as Angie. At a minimum, he was at some/all of the murder scenes and actively assisted in the murders. I don't care if he shot anyone or not. Best he can hope for at trial is LWOP.

What worries me is that by going to trial he has the right to appeal, and that could go on for years. I don't think the appeals will be based on evidence, it will be based on trial technicalities. The evidence alone is quite damning.

JMO, MOO
 
I also agree, I think he'll be convicted on the 8 murder counts, as well as the other 14.

This is just IMO, but I don't think there is a snowflake's chance in h*ll G4 will get the same 30 year deal as Angie. At a minimum, he was at some/all of the murder scenes and actively assisted in the murders. I don't care if he shot anyone or not. Best he can hope for at trial is LWOP.

What worries me is that by going to trial he has the right to appeal, and that could go on for years. I don't think the appeals will be based on evidence, it will be based on trial technicalities. The evidence alone is quite damning.

JMO, MOO

With DP dropped he won't have those DP attorneys anymore to do his appeals. Not sure how payment would work for him to get an appeals attorney. Assuming Jake testifies to the prosecution's satisfaction.

All 4 were given the opportunity to plea but your right, that doesn't mean the prosecution would have offered George the 30 year sentence.

It's possible the families and prosecution would consider a 30 year sentence but doubtful. He would be lucky to get 30 years instead of LWOP.

I guess this is my worry, that he will get Angie's deal. I am seeing closure as being Jake, George and Billy getting LWOP and Angie getting 30 years without any parole or any type of early release like to a halfway house.

I want to hear Angie's actual sentence.

I feel really confident that George will get convicted of the murders at trial thus get what we all have been waiting for - LWOP.

It seems to me that Jake's proffer has a good chance of saying that Billy shot 3 of them. If so, we know Billy will get LWOP for sure. My only concern is George. More specifically, what George's jury decides.
 
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Are they insinuating G4 has "intellectual disabilities"?

Thank you Betty for the great notes:)

JMO, MOO

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas to all!

May 2022 be a Healthy, Happy, and Bountiful year for us all!

That's exactly the way I took that little speech. Comparing G4 to people with intellectual disabilities.

Merry Christmas Sleuthers, thank you for all the hard work that you do in making this Thread so successful.
I raise a glass (or two) for a better year ahead. Let's wish for Health, Prosperity and JUSTICE.
 
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