GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

[Johnny B Bad]

Merry Christmas to all you Sleuthers:

 

[Piffcat]

G4 went to the murders with a weapon with intent to use it. If one of the rhodens had killed Jake and Billy you can bet he would have killed them. He may have shot and killed one. He may have fired and missed. His gun could have jammed. This murder could not have been completed without him. A criminal conspiracy is all about a group accomplishing what they could not individually. Someone tampered with scenes took cameras etc. Let's not forget they also tried to frame the manleys actively like a specific part of the plan was to ruin their lives even more. So many people have gotten life sentences which pale in comparison to this crime. The ruthless destruction and disregard for life is terrifying. Every taboo you could think of mother's with newborns, couples in their bed, a 16 year old boy terrified trying to call 911 but it's jammed. The way lawyers can micro manipulate these charges is scary and frustrating. Sometimes the big picture should matter! Forensics and all is great but crimes were solved a long time before without it.... merry Christmas everyone

 

[Niner]

One Question Sleuthers: Has Angela Wagner already been past sentences on for her role in the murders by a mission of guilt and is just waiting to be sent to prison for 30 years and no less????

from my notes:

*Angela Jo Wagner (48/now 50) – 9/10/21: Plead guilty to a plea deal to Counts 9 thru 22, Counts 1-8 were dismissed. Will be sentenced to 30 years in prison with no early release & has to testify against others at trial. No update on sentencing date as of 12/23/21.

 

[Betty P]

G4 went to the murders with a weapon with intent to use it. If one of the rhodens had killed Jake and Billy you can bet he would have killed them. He may have shot and killed one. He may have fired and missed. His gun could have jammed. This murder could not have been completed without him. A criminal conspiracy is all about a group accomplishing what they could not individually. Someone tampered with scenes took cameras etc. Let's not forget they also tried to frame the manleys actively like a specific part of the plan was to ruin their lives even more. So many people have gotten life sentences which pale in comparison to this crime. The ruthless destruction and disregard for life is terrifying. Every taboo you could think of mother's with newborns, couples in their bed, a 16 year old boy terrified trying to call 911 but it's jammed. The way lawyers can micro manipulate these charges is scary and frustrating. Sometimes the big picture should matter! Forensics and all is great but crimes were solved a long time before without it.... merry Christmas everyone

"Micro-manipulate" is a very good way of describing how they twist the facts and spread rumors to make it appear GW4 is pure as the driven snow. Remember, defense attorneys can bend the truth or even lie when arguing in the alternative.

GW4's attorney, John Parker, took 10 little snippets, small fragments of sentences, from Jake's 12 hour confession and tried to twist them into a claim that GW4 didn't "shoot anybody". Parker and AC discussed this with Judge Deering in chambers before George's hearing last week. They all agreed the judge would hear the argument, but the defense could not read the "snippets" aloud in court.

When they walked into court for the hearing, what was the first thing George's defense attorney did? He started to read the snippets out loud anyway, even though the judge had ordered him not to.

What did Judge Deering say? "We're not going to try this case in the media". The judge was not happy.

Judge keeps death penalty chance for George Wagner IV charged in Rhoden family murder | 10tv.com


Parker is also dishonest in his argument that George4 will face the DP, while Jake gets LWOP. That's also not true. George4 and Billy will get LWOP if Jake testifies honestly in both of their trials.

ETA: Defense also plans to stipulate that George had no "specific intent" to kill anyone the night of the murders. JMO, they're going to have a really hard time convincing a jury of that.

 

[Cool Cats]

"Micro-manipulate" is a very good way of describing how they twist the facts and spread rumors to make it appear GW4 is pure as the driven snow. Remember, defense attorneys can bend the truth or even lie when arguing in the alternative.

GW4's attorney, John Parker, took 10 little snippets, small fragments of sentences, from Jake's 12 hour confession and tried to twist them into a claim that GW4 didn't "shoot anybody". Parker and AC discussed this with Judge Deering in chambers before George's hearing last week. They all agreed the judge would hear the argument, but the defense could not read the "snippets" aloud in court.

When they walked into court for the hearing, what was the first thing George's defense attorney did? He started to read the snippets out loud anyway, even though the judge had ordered him not to.

What did Judge Deering say? "We're not going to try this case in the media". The judge was not happy.

Judge keeps death penalty chance for George Wagner IV charged in Rhoden family murder | 10tv.com


Parker is also dishonest in his argument that George4 will face the DP, while Jake gets LWOP. That's also not true. George4 and Billy will get LWOP if Jake testifies honestly in both of their trials.

QUOTE:

GW4's attorney, John Parker, took 10 little snippets, small fragments of sentences, from Jake's 12 hour confession and tried to twist them into a claim that GW4 didn't "shoot anybody". Parker and AC discussed this with Judge Deering in chambers before George's hearing last week. They all agreed the judge would hear the argument, but the defense could not read the "snippets" aloud in court.

ADD:

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

 

[Betty P]

QUOTE:

GW4's attorney, John Parker, took 10 little snippets, small fragments of sentences, from Jake's 12 hour confession and tried to twist them into a claim that GW4 didn't "shoot anybody". Parker and AC discussed this with Judge Deering in chambers before George's hearing last week. They all agreed the judge would hear the argument, but the defense could not read the "snippets" aloud in court.

ADD:

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

That's the fine print that George's attorneys hope no one reads. JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

I don't mind the defence attorneys, I think they are doing the best they can considering what they are up against, but when his atty says he had no intent to kill I was astonished, all 4 of them had intent,

I still think GW the younger killed nobody, the state has hung its case and credibility on agreeing with JW proffer, and they could not go to court accepting and relying on JW proffer if they have other evidence (or any lingering doubts) that shows GW the younger shot anybody, as that would make JW a liar, and his plea deal not truthful, so I find her argument disingenuous when she stated we accept GW the younger didn't shoot anybody only due to JW proffer, they can't have it both ways, as they would be subpoenaing perjury if they go to court believing JW to already be a liar if they have evidence showing GW the younger shot at/and or killed one or more of the victims,

You bring up some very good points as always. I think its possible the defense saying there was no intent may come from something JW said in his proffer. JMO - When you follow the motions you can tell what the strategy is. We had heard of two other things that the defense claims JW stated so I assume that is where they are going to try to go with this.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

For those of you who followed the Hopper Rd. murders in Pike County, I posted a "small" update in their thread. Link below!


OH - OH- Piketon, Hopper Rd, Curtis Francis 34 & Jennifer Burgette 30, 9 December 2006

 

[Betty P]

You bring up some very good points as always. I think its possible the defense saying there was no intent may come from something JW said in his proffer. JMO - When you follow the motions you can tell what the strategy is. We had heard of two other things that the defense claims JW stated so I assume that is where they are going to try to go with this.

The prosecution has much, much more than Jake's 12 hr. confession. They also have all the evidence. Several terabytes of it, IIRC.

The Wagner clan didn't do all thzt planning, surveillance, hacking, forgery, etc just to go over to Union Hill Rd to play games or prank the victims. Jurors don't like to be treated like fools by dishonest defense attorneys, so thzt little argument will fall flat.

George's attorneys should be more cautious. As the judge and prosecutor reminded them the other day, they're under a gag order. JMO they should be careful not to push their luck.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

GW4 really think’s that he never did anything wrong the night of the Piketon Massacre, the world knows exactly what that phrase means
(The Piketon Massacre) that says it all for George Wagner iv faith when his day comes in court, in my book! JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

GW4 really think’s that he never did anything wrong the night of the Piketon Massacre, the world knows exactly what that phrase means
(The Piketon Massacre) that says it all for George Wagner iv faith when his day comes in court, in my book! JMO

To me it seems he is getting nervous. I've noticed he leaves quickly without talking to his attorneys. After one court hearing this year Nash turned around and was looking for him and seemed surprised that George was at the door going out.

George's hearings are not going the way he wants.
The "George didn't shoot anybody" defense didn't sway the judge.

Scheiderer accused George of having violent tendencies which to me means anger issues. I see a touch of anger in his expressions, maybe others on here see it differently.

George looking angry (scared?) in his October hearing.

Just a tad over 3 months. 4-4-22 Jury selection unless it gets moved.

George Wagner IV Hearing Scheduled for Lord Wagner Murder Case - Ohio News Time

 

[FrankieT]

Thanks @Betty P for posting the latest hearing. I watched it last night before bed. He seems to be seething as if he is ready to explode. I could see the possibility of Jake and him in the same courtroom, Jake testifying and George exploding and the two of them in a shouting match. Honestly I hate to think it will go to trial for the Rhoden/Gilley family's sake though.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks @Betty P for posting the latest hearing. I watched it last night before bed. He seems to be seething as if he is ready to explode. I could see the possibility of Jake and him in the same courtroom, Jake testifying and George exploding and the two of them in a shouting match. Honestly I hate to think it will go to trial for the Rhoden/Gilley family's sake though.

I don't know.

The trial itself will be tough but in the end I think the ring of 8 guilty murder verdicts will bring the family a certain type of closure, justice.

Overwhelming evidence.
Jake's (now Angie's) testimony of George's complicity.
Prosecution alluding that he is guilty of shooting.
Judge Deering keeping DP and murder charges in the trial.
Shoes placing George right in the thick of the murders.
3 guns, buying mask, buying Glock, buying night scope.
8,000 recordings of interest.
Doing everything together.
Other Acts Evidence.
Threats of violence towards AG, Sheriff, Scheiderer, others that go against them, and plans to break out of jail.

 

[Betty P]

I don't know.

The trial itself will be tough but in the end I think the ring of 8 guilty murder verdicts will bring the family a certain type of closure, justice.

Overwhelming evidence.
Jake's (now Angie's) testimony of George's complicity.
Prosecution alluding that he is guilty of shooting.
Judge Deering keeping DP and murder charges in the trial.
Shoes placing George right in the thick of the murders.
3 guns, buying mask, buying Glock, buying night scope.
8,000 recordings of interest.
Doing everything together.
Other Acts Evidence.

Also
Buying parts to make silencers (proving intent and premeditation to kill victims without awakening other victims)
Spent casings from his gun found at one of the crime scenes (CR1's trailer)
JMO, I'm also going to add that he helped hide and destroy evidence

 

[Cool Cats]

Also
Buying parts to make silencers (proving intent and premeditation to kill victims without awakening other victims)
Spent casings from his gun found at one of the crime scenes (CR1's trailer)
JMO, I'm also going to add that he helped hide and destroy evidence

Yes his Glock.

He helped hide and destroyed evidence that night no doubt amongst other things that night:

George was there participating in 8 aggravated murders, using a dangerous ordnance, committing burglary, unlawful use of property, tampering with crime scenes, obstruction of justice, hiding evidence, destroying evidence, being a lookout, being a driver, intimidating victims, leaving an infant and 6 month old in blood for 8 hours in danger of smothering, and a 3 year old in danger of getting hurt and/or wandering away, and deliberately leaving him to be traumatized seeing his parents which did happen. Pike County 3-year-old: 'I picked up daddy's hand, and

Racking up so many felonies my wrist gets tired typing them:

COUNT 1 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 2 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 3 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 4 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 5 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 6 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 7 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 8 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 9 - CONSPIRACY
COUNT 10 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 11 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 12 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 13 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 14 - UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS ORDNANCE - Suppressor
COUNT 15 - TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - Items belonging to the victims,
Phones, Cameras
COUNT 16 - TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - Custody Documents
COUNT 17 - TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - Silencer, Shell Casings, Parts of Hone Security System
COUNT 18 - FORGERY
COUNT 19 - UNAUTHORIZED USE OF PROPERTY - Cable and Computer Systems, Telecommunications Service, Social Media Accounts
COUNT 20 - INTERCEPTION OF WIRE, ORAL, OR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS
COUNT 21- OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE
COUNT 22 - ENGAGING IN A PATTERN OF CORRUPT ACTIVITY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3

The feeling of relief when he is sentenced to LWOP....... WOW ... !

My opinion this will be the outcome of his trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

Jake's plead deal, for anyone who missed it:

Complete with a few corrections written in, is right past Billy's Motion #51

DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III

Scroll past the end of it.

DEFENDANT'S AGREEMENT AND PLEA AND SENTENCING AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES

 

[Betty P]

Jake's plead deal, for anyone who missed it:

Complete with a few corrections written in, is right past Billy's Motion #51

DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III

Scroll past the end of it.

DEFENDANT'S AGREEMENT AND PLEA AND SENTENCING AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES

It's not exactly Jake's plea deal. It's GW4's attorneys motion to demand that the DP specification be dismissed for GW4 regardless of how or if Jake testifies. Judge Deering ruled against this, IIRC.

As the state pointed out, the contract is between Jake and the state. George isn't a party to the contract.

If Jake testifies honestly at GW4's trial, GW4, the DP specification will be waived. The same thing applies to his father, GW3.

 

[Cool Cats]

It's not exactly Jake's plea deal. It's GW4's attorneys motion to demand that the DP specification be dismissed for GW4 regardless of how or if Jake testifies. Judge Deering ruled against this, IIRC.

As the state pointed out, the contract is between Jake and the state. George isn't a party to the contract.

If Jake testifies honestly at GW4's trial, GW4, the DP specification will be waived. The same thing applies to his father, GW3.

There are 2 documents in that one pdf link.

The 1st document is Billy wanting dismissal of the murder specifications of which was denied.

The 2nd document is just all about Jake's plea agreement and sentencing agreement with the State and how this affects his co-defendants and the consequences if he doesn't stick to the agreement.

Excerpts:

It is the intent of the parties to bring finality to these matters by defendant accepting responsibility for the homicides and agreement not to raise challenges to his convictions and sentences in exchange for 8 consecutive life imprisonment without parole sentences, plus other consecutive sentences.

The Defendant and the State hereby enter into this agreement on April 17, 2021. All the terms and conditions are set forth herein with the addition of the proffer letter, the contents of such proffer letter are incorporated as if fully set forth and included in this agreement.

The Defendant agrees to testify truthfully , completely, accurately in any legal proceedings related to the Rhoden family homicides that he is called to testify as a witness ... including but not limited to trials currently pending against the following individuals,

George Washington Wagner III, George Washington Wagner IV, Angela Jo Wagner.

Furthermore the Defendant agrees to testify concerning any crimes committed by any and all individuals targeted in the investigations and/or prosecutions resulting from his cooperation.

(It details that if Jake provides truthful testimony the State will dismiss the death specifications against Jake and his family.)

The Defendant further states that he has been promised nothing in addition to that which is stated herein, and that this document fully incorporates the complete understanding of the parties.

The Defendant agrees and understands that his completion of the terms of this agreement is to be determined by the State if Ohio. If the Defendant fails to cooperate fully, does not provide a full and truthful disclosure, to include providing the current location(s) of any remaining physical or other evidence, or refuses to testify, refuses to assist in further verification of the truth of his statements, testifies falsely, gives false misleading incomplete information or testimony, compromises his value as a witness, or otherwise violates his terms of this agreement then the State of Ohio may reinstate the original charges with all of the original specifications ....

The parties will be returned to their respective positions prior to the execution of this agreement with the expressed exception of the terms set forth in paragraph 4 above.

This applies to the Defendant's co-defendants as well, George Washington Wagner III, George Washington Wagner IV, Angela Jo Wagner.

 

[IType]

Furthermore the Defendant agrees to testify concerning any crimes committed by any and all individuals targeted in the investigations and/or prosecutions resulting from his cooperation.

<Snipped from your post above.>
BBM, Anyone think this is an indication that charges will be refiled against FW? I certainly hope so. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

<Snipped from your post above.>
BBM, Anyone think this is an indication that charges will be refiled against FW? I certainly hope so. JMO

Very interesting point.

We now know that Angela has testified to other Wagner crimes as mentioned by Canepa at Angie's plea hearing. Jake is also on the hook to testify truthfully about any other crimes, such as if Angie brings them up concerning the family.

So yes, if Angie and/or Jake were to implicate her in a crime and it was investigated charges could be filed if there was a real crime committed with the evidence to back it up.

But remember, no one wants to kill the golden goose. Not wise to implicate her.

FW mentioned a few times in this Motion: