CA CA - Lydia "Dia" Abrams, 65, Idyllwild, 6 Jun 2020 #2

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sleuther007 said:
... 3. Clem's beloved Candlelight project was facing financial challenges, now left for the children to deal with after his death in 2018...
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#3-- I'm not sure money was an issue holding up the project. We don't know if the challenges were financial, but perhaps environmental that caused delays. It's very hard to find the status of the project now, but if you do find anything, please share it. I doubt the project is off the table.


Not seeing the children hurting for money. Dia was going after two things in court, (I'll simplify) and her children opposed both: (1) She wanted the Pre-Nup disregarded (2) She wanted about $5-6 Million due to a change in the tax laws. Her children opposed both. Dia was not granted either request by the courts, at that time. It doesn't appear she posed much of a threat to them of winning further requests. I don't think the children were the ones hurting for money. They blocked her from getting more money or more of the properties.

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CA - CA - Lydia "Dia" Abrams, 65, Idyllwild, 6 Jun 2020

dbm
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

If you go back to the beginnings of this thread, you'll see @SoHelpMeGod pointing out that most of the properties held had defaulted back property taxes not being paid. There was interest accruing to be owed on all those defaulted property taxes, and it went back in time. I don't profess to understand the loopholes the wealthy use. It is said they never sell their assets, and wealth is not income, and so there are ways to avoid paying taxes of all kinds.

The Candlelight Project is a big moneymaking venture, and it seems investors would clamor to get on board. I think some of the delay was environmental concerns. In any case, Dia was not named on the title to that project. She had been out of the loop with the properties and Clem for quite sometime. Not sure I believe the Candlelight Project or the questionable dealings of Clem had anything to do with her disappearance. ​
 
RDJ0091 said:
...Like stated above, those type of people (higher end law enforcement) never actually retire. DF could pull strings to get something done. She has to have contacts high up still. If DF cared about Dia, where is she? Why did she move away and stay so quiet?...
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Hope and pray DF shared all she could with LE. Is it possible she left the area for her own safety? I know she says she left to care for elderly parents. Sadly, I see, her mother died in a car accident in May 2022. You are right about DF's connections, even family members in that career circle that go way back as agents. Why would she get involved on the wrong side of this shady case?

It bothers me though because she was right there, and still Dia went gone.
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It also bothers me that if she did tell all she knew to LE, they still haven't done a darn thing to arrest anyone. In the meantime, another woman died on the property. What is going on with LE not even giving updates on these possible homicides?
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It's unacceptable.

All MOO, thoughts, and speculations. ​
 
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Curious Me said:
#3-- I'm not sure money was an issue holding up the project. We don't know if the challenges were financial, but perhaps environmental that caused delays. It's very hard to find the status of the project now, but if you do find anything, please share it. I doubt the project is off the table.

​
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October 26, 2021 I wrote: "Candlelight project faced financial pressures. The change in trust law alleviated those, but Dia challenged it."

I don't recall what those pressures were, simply that I had at some point come across a reference to them (which I failed to note, or at least cannot find).
 
sleuther007 said:
Oooh ... I had not seen that. Do you have a source/link?
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It was something I ran across in general news under her maiden name. We can only discuss so much here, as you know.
sleuther007 said:
I don't recall what those pressures were, simply that I had at some point come across a reference to them (which I failed to note, or at least cannot find).
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Hmm... I don't think so, or recall anything like that. Dia had nothing to do with the Candlelight Project, she wasn't on the title, so the change in trust law wouldn't affect her.

It was only that the children didn't want to let go of more money out from the Trust they had control of having to do with a tax cut law changing. It was not granted to her, but I'll attempt to explain how I understand it from my post linked below-- (2) She was also requesting an additional five to six million dollars that she felt was owed from the Family Trust to the Martial Trust due to an unexpected change coming from the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) signed into law December 2017."​

These posts are from August 2020, in which we're discussing the two points Dia went to court to request.

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CA - CA - Lydia "Dia" Abrams, 65, Idyllwild, 6 Jun 2020

dbm
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

www.websleuths.com

CA - CA - Lydia "Dia" Abrams, 65, Idyllwild, 6 Jun 2020

dbm
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
 
sleuther007 said:
October 26, 2021 I wrote: "Candlelight project faced financial pressures. The change in trust law alleviated those, but Dia challenged it."

I don't recall what those pressures were, simply that I had at some point come across a reference to them (which I failed to note, or at least cannot find).
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I guess I can see how you're viewing it. This is a very confusing subject to discuss. The only alleviation was that the children got to hang on to the additional money in their Family Trust that Dia requested put into her Marital Trust. They won, she was denied the additional $5-6.7 million. The best explanation goes back to those two posts I linked above. I think @SoHelpMeGod explains it best in her post linked below. All her posts should be revisited to better grasp the financial and property matters of this case. It is overwhelming.​

www.websleuths.com

CA - CA - Lydia "Dia" Abrams, 65, Idyllwild, 6 Jun 2020

dbm
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
 
Curious Me said:
Hmm... I don't think so, or recall anything like that. Dia had nothing to do with the Candlelight Project, she wasn't on the title, so the change in trust law wouldn't affect her.
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Yes, I'm aware Dia played no role (albeit, she presumably knew quite a bit) regarding Clem's business; that the entirety of the business was left to the kids. Dia was to be taken care of in a separate trust (as you indicate below).

Curious Me said:
It was only that the children didn't want to let go of more money out from the Trust they had control of having to do with a tax cut law changing. It was not granted to her, but I'll attempt to explain how I understand it from my post linked below-- (2) She was also requesting an additional five to six million dollars that she felt was owed from the Family Trust to the Martial Trust due to an unexpected change coming from the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) signed into law December 2017."​
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Yes. Absolutely.

[MOO]
My thoughts were that any financial pressures that the children were facing (including Candlelight) were alleviated by the 2017 change in tax law. Dia's challenge placed that alleviation (and, by extension, Candlelight) at risk.

Clinton repeatedly asserted that, despite the court battle, he was fully providing for Dia. Keith Harper asserts Dia was being financially strangled by Clinton. It's hard for me to see both being true. The fact of Dia's challenge supports the latter. The question, then, is why.

Follow the money ...
 
 
tvscum said:

www.cbs8.com

Ranch manager questioned in case of missing woman near Idyllwild

Attorneys deposed Keith Harper for six hours about the disappearance of Dia Abrams.
www.cbs8.com www.cbs8.com
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Thank You again.
Cahuilla said:
I tried unsuccessfully to link the recent CBS8 story with a link to the 4-hr deposition of Keith Harper by the children’s attorney. Worth listening to.
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I agree, @Cahuilla. It's definitely worth listening to the deposition. So far, I've listened to 2 hours of the 4-hr deposition of Keith Harper. Took some notes, and learned a lot more about what he says was his relationship with Dia. Want to listen to the next 2 hrs. and hope others will listen to some of it so we can share our thoughts here.​

Link to KH's deposition:
 
Time goes by and it's harder to remember what I heard listening to the first two hours of the deposition. Time to transcribe some to my notes from the legal deposition. (not exact wording but close) I urge everyone to listen to some of it because there's a lot of info there.


30:40 KH stopped being active in the CO tour business around 2012-2014, just worked in the office, and his son started running it. He basically retired to the NM storage complex business which he's owned 16-17 yrs. now.

2014- 2016 He met Dia on a dating site called "Farmers Dating Site". They just talked on the dating app for the first 4 mos. then decided to meet. Dia picked him up in Ontario where he flew in, and spent 4 days at her house.

Dia was still married, but had been separated. Clem was still alive. KH and Dia began an exclusive relationship dating no others. She went to CO 3-4 times to visit him in 2014-2016, and stayed at his motor home. He owns residences in NM and CO, but it sounded like Dia never stayed in one.

Timing seems off, sometime in 2015-2016, but the time between meeting and KH moving into Dia's place was less than 6 mos. They never discussed her moving to his town or his place.

KH moved to CA in 2016.

44:10 KH upgraded and developed Dia's property. He's cleared brush, built fences, built dams, reservoirs, and bridges. He's done a lot of things there. Animals as much as he could knowledgably take care of them.

KH says he owns several rentals. There's the one in CO, one in NM, and 3 other single family houses (couldn't hear) either in NM or Mexico. The lots are bigger than 1 acre, and yes the CO lot is 5 acres.​

52:00 No military, no bankruptcies, married 3 times.
1st wife - 1974 Corrine, ended after 18 yrs.
(4 kids-- Darlene, Casey, Danielle, Caleb)
2nd wife - Tina or Gina, no kids, ended in 2000
3rd wife- Cathy, no kids, ended 7-8 yrs. (must've been married to her when the trial went on in 2011)

Dia & KH took a lot of trips, 10-20 trips that they took together, never more than a month long in duration though. KH sometimes took business trips, but only once gone for 3 mos. to NM where they were expanding his business there.

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58:00 minute mark-- THEY WERE ENGAGED to be married. They became engaged in 2019, roughly one year before Dia went missing. He proposed at the ranch at Butterfly's Peak with a view of the property and Lake Hemet. KH gave her a a diamond ring set in gold that he bought in NM, but she only wore it at times when they'd go out or when they traveled. She was hesitate about her children finding out, didn't want them to know, kept it secret, and worried about the truck threats. They kept their engagement between them, and he never heard her tell anyone.

59:38 Yes, he still has the ring. It was in the BR safe where the property & truck paperwork were kept, but he moved it to the Gun safe. ​
 
You are a gem, Curious Me! I keep putting off listening because I don't trust him to be truthful and don"t want to be irritated. So I appreciate you taking the time to listen, making notes and sharimg with us! :)

I could buy Dia not wanting her kids to find out about the engagement but why wouldn't she tell her friends. If she was truly happily engaged (for nearly a year, per KH), I would expect she'd want to share the good news with those who cared about her.
 
jash said:
...I could buy Dia not wanting her kids to find out about the engagement but why wouldn't she tell her friends. If she was truly happily engaged (for nearly a year, per KH), I would expect she'd want to share the good news with those who cared about her.
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Exactly, @jash. It's just not believable. Dia didn't tell anyone for a whole year that they were engaged to be married, nor did she wear her ring around anyone she knew. (KH throws in the truck as one of Dia's concerns. Really? I would think her fiancé could get her a truck to ease her mind. KH just sits there and does nothing while Dia is frantic the way he describes her fear of Clinton. Hmm... fishy, IMO.)

1:24 Yet, according to KH, she did tell six people some being Bunco friends, that she thought Clinton might make her disappear, and if she did disappear, it'd be Clinton who did it. (To me it sounds like she was being gaslighted to fear Clinton so much that she had to maybe change her Trust.)

A "gaslighter" will often present a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed. Oftentimes this is for the gaslighter's own benefit.

Lake Hemet was searched in Nov. 2021 by LE and one dive KH witnessed, but it was an insufficient search because she was moved just prior to the search.

1:50 - 2:10 from KH's deposition (My notes are jumbled, but this is important enough to listen to mention.) Sheriff didn't question Clinton about "some person", KH can't give out this person's name, it's on the Sheriff's report, but at 1:57 KH does give out a name. Someone's medical and Rx records, along with some camping supplies, were found 40 yds. from property by Yin Rd. , days after Dia gone. KH thinks this person PG was hired by Clinton, and wasn't investigated by the Sheriff. KH said Channel 8 guy went to PG's mother, I guess to interview her.​
 
Curious Me said:
Exactly, @jash. It's just not believable. Dia didn't tell anyone for a whole year that they were engaged to be married, nor did she wear her ring around anyone she knew. (KH throws in the truck as one of Dia's concerns. Really? I would think her fiancé could get her a truck to ease her mind. KH just sits there and does nothing while Dia is frantic the way he describes her fear of Clinton. Hmm... fishy, IMO.)

1:24 Yet, according to KH, she did tell six people some being Bunco friends, that she thought Clinton might make her disappear, and if she did disappear, it'd be Clinton who did it. (To me it sounds like she was being gaslighted to fear Clinton so much that she had to maybe change her Trust.)

A "gaslighter" will often present a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed. Oftentimes this is for the gaslighter's own benefit.

Lake Hemet was searched in Nov. 2021 by LE and one dive KH witnessed, but it was an insufficient search because she was moved just prior to the search.

1:50 - 2:10 from KH's deposition (My notes are jumbled, but this is important enough to listen to mention.) Sheriff didn't question Clinton about "some person", KH can't give out this person's name, it's on the Sheriff's report, but at 1:57 KH does give out a name. Someone's medical and Rx records, along with some camping supplies, were found 40 yds. from property by Yin Rd. , days after Dia gone. KH thinks this person PG was hired by Clinton, and wasn't investigated by the Sheriff. KH said Channel 8 guy went to PG's mother, I guess to interview her.​
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WOW Curious Me! Channel 8 guy = David Gotfredson?! We know him, right? Did you say KH was giving out Rx, medical records with a name attatched to them? Shouldn't that have been redacted out of the record? Who /Where is that person? Is KH suggesting the person whose things were found, whose name he mentioned, was hired by her son, to harm Dia? Who and where is Camper-man? I have to say, I know someone who lives in a canyon, illegally, with a full-on semi-permanent tent and everything else he needs which, granted, isn't much. He's a little different, but he likes it outside. He leaves things out by necessity, usually well hidden, but he always goes back for them, always. Did Camper-man forget his things? His medical records, his rxs, his kitchen utensils? I wonder what happened to separate him from his things.

Thanks, Curious Me, for the great notes. I will go and read/watch/listen to the deposition.
Where are you, Dia?
 
Curious Me said:
Exactly, @jash. It's just not believable. Dia didn't tell anyone for a whole year that they were engaged to be married, nor did she wear her ring around anyone she knew. (KH throws in the truck as one of Dia's concerns. Really? I would think her fiancé could get her a truck to ease her mind. KH just sits there and does nothing while Dia is frantic the way he describes her fear of Clinton. Hmm... fishy, IMO.)

1:24 Yet, according to KH, she did tell six people some being Bunco friends, that she thought Clinton might make her disappear, and if she did disappear, it'd be Clinton who did it. (To me it sounds like she was being gaslighted to fear Clinton so much that she had to maybe change her Trust.)

A "gaslighter" will often present a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed. Oftentimes this is for the gaslighter's own benefit.

Lake Hemet was searched in Nov. 2021 by LE and one dive KH witnessed, but it was an insufficient search because she was moved just prior to the search.

1:50 - 2:10 from KH's deposition (My notes are jumbled, but this is important enough to listen to mention.) Sheriff didn't question Clinton about "some person", KH can't give out this person's name, it's on the Sheriff's report, but at 1:57 KH does give out a name. Someone's medical and Rx records, along with some camping supplies, were found 40 yds. from property by Yin Rd. , days after Dia gone. KH thinks this person PG was hired by Clinton, and wasn't investigated by the Sheriff. KH said Channel 8 guy went to PG's mother, I guess to interview her.​
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OK how do they move her from the lake? That sounds most unlikely to me.
 
coastal said:
...I will go and read/watch/listen to the deposition.
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You can slide the minute mark ahead when listening to the deposition. It's tedious to listen to the whole four hours, but if you can listen to some starting at 1:43:40 minute mark, and listen carefully when you get to the 1:56 minute mark. (His attorney Healy is there too, and they mention trying to get them on the same seating or feed.)

WARNING-- MOO, KH COMES UP WITH SOME WHAT I'D CALL PREPOSTEROUS STUFF. (Preposterous contrary to reason or common sense; utterly absurd or ridiculous) However, his attorney was there and allowed KH to say these things in the deposition.

1:43:40 Starts talking about a report. (KH mumbles a lot. I think, not sure, report was done by a third part investigation and given to the LE detective.)

1:45:43 KH contacted an online non-profit investigating company called "FIND ME. ORG", based in AZ, and the director was a Mr. Snyder. They prepared a report that identifies and tells their findings. 1:45:43 KH was told info, but didn't see the report. (later KH gained more info)​
  • Yes, they (the Find Me co.) identified the individual who murdered Dia. ​
  • Identified who the killer was, and where she is, and the cause of her death.​
1:48:00 Identifies who is the killer. No, KH never saw the report, but it names a person, and identifies that person as her worker involved in the case. (My own thoughts here-- an employee at one time? or at the time?

1:49:23 No name, but identifies a killer? KH says I know now just because of info I received. Mr. Snyder didn't tell him then.

1:51 The had investigated and identified:​
  • when Dia died, the day it occurred​
  • Where her body is ​
  • Who​
1:52:12 Find Me. Org has the GPS location of Dia's Body (I guess until it was moved.) Mr. Snyder told KH -- Hemet Lake.
1660352846641.png

1:54 Dia's body was in the lake, but just prior to the search it was moved out of the lake. (yes, @coastal, it sounds inconvenient but maybe the killers hired pro divers, and knew the search was going to happen.)
animated-boat-image-0050.gif


START LISTENING HERE AND AT THE 1:54:00 mark.

1:54 The Sheriff has the name, and has never, ever, investigated him this person, yet they know who he is, they know where he lives, he lives approx 22 miles from Clinton, he lives in La Jolla.

(Legal talk-- The deposition attorney thinks he can demand KH answer with the name of the person because it is considered "discoverable info". It's might be a trial objection about hearsay, but not discovery in the deposition.)

1:57:07 KH is pushed legally to say the name, he caves and says "The Name is PG." (listen to it because I don't want to name a non-suspect here.) "He's 52 yrs. old., lives 22 miles from Clinton." Spells last name. His medical report was found where he camped just off the property."

1:58:00 KH has no idea how he knew Dia, thinks he was hired to kill Dia. KH says Clinton Abrams did it, brought in this person in to kill Dia. KH believes this because of (1) the person being present at the location (2) that he was never investigated.

How do you know that person was never investigated? KH says because of that Channel 8 guy, he went to the home and verified with the mother that there had been no investigating...LISTEN IF YOU CAN. I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE OF KH'S VOICE OR NONSENSE. I do not understand the connection to Dia's worker and the person who left their camping and medical report. They are the same person the way KH talks? Confusing, and jumping to conclusions, IMO.​
 
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Curious Me said:
1:45:43 KH contacted an online non-profit investigating company called "FIND ME. ORG", based in AZ, and the director was a Mr. Snyder. They prepared a report that identifies and tells their findings. 1:45:43 KH was told info, but didn't see the report. (later KH gained more info)​
  • Yes, they (the Find Me co.) identified the individual who murdered Dia. ​
  • Identified who the killer was, and where she is, and the cause of her death.​
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