UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #4

[Konstantin]

Yes, I posted the link to that MSM a few days ago. I commented then on the narrator stating that JC frequented the PoW, but that the editing was done in such a way that it was not directly stated by either the 'interviewee' or DCI Ault.

So there may be a link. It's not our imagination but its provenance is questionable.

What is of more interest is AL discussing the 'missing' items. The rapid blinking (sign of stress) and the 'other items'....whatever they were.

By all accounts SJL was not too concerned about the missing items until the morning of the day she went missing. Did she realise before then? She did have a full on weekend.

How could AL be so certain they were taken in the PoW, assuming SJL did not realise until Monday morning, and he is unlikely to have spoken with her between the time she realised (Monday A.M.?) and when she went missing.

My feeling is that AL borrowed the items as he was checking up on SJL over his suspicion about her being unfaithful.

I think it is entirely plausible that AL knew more about the missing items than he let on. According to AS the missing items were a chequebook, a pocket diary (which sounds like one of those little ones people used to write birthdays and appointments in, not the A5 or A4 desk diary things. They still sell them at Paperchase for example), and a postcard which could mean several things, although it is unlikely to have been a card someone posted to her home or it would have her name and address on it, making it easy for the pub to have known where she lived. People buy postcards from art galleries, there used to be blank postcards you could buy for some reason. The card could have been stuck in the diary.

I am not very convinced about DV's interview reporting, as I have noted elsewhere, but for what it is worth, when DV and his assistant met AL for an interview in a cafe, AL denied that they had ever drunk in the POW and said that the story of her losing hte items there "never happened". He got very upset with DV and stormed out which DV reported as being highly suspect, but could have been because he realised the interview was not what he thought it was supposed to be (DV might have come across like he was hinting at suspecting AL, even if he wasn't-- or that he was trying to push alternative theories--and/or that AL is sensitive about the missing items, even after all this time).

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Wait much longer for what? A revealing of previously undisclosed information from the police?

Following your logic, if we are to believe there was the type of investigation you pertain to, then the police must have with-held a heck of a lot from the general public. Either that, or there wasn't. Can't have it both ways.

UK police don't reveal the information, intelligence or evidence they have or how they came by it, during a live investigation, particularly if it involved CHIS or technical means.

What the police have alluded to in the documentaries is the amount of work that went into identifying and eliminating other possible suspects, building up a full profile of JC from many sources and identifying the places that JC did and didn't go.

There's a lot known about JC but unfortunately without SJL's body any opportunity for obtaining key direct evidence is very unlikely.

 

[Konstantin]

The 2000 SLP re-investigation was a warts and all enquiry. Nothing would have been withheld. It was an overarching search for the truth.

The more I learn about it the more impressed I am with it. I wish AS could have updated his book with details from it! It mist have been an incredibly difficult and daunting task and one that would merit a book like the ones Colin Sutton wrote, although in this case probably that's not possible as this is an ongoing enquiry...

 

[Pinkizzy]

"The man who killed Suzy Lamplugh" video mentioned that JC was very bright and very sporty at school, this may be the common factor with SJL. And he knew something about ships from his brief spell in the Navy.

 

[WestLondoner]

I think it's fair to say that the JC investigation is at a sedimentary stage.

 

[WiseOwl]

MG had rang DL earlier in the afternoon and she in turn had rung around SJL's, AL would have been an obvious person she or one of SJL's had checked with. While it might appear suspicious if a person was trying to cover their tracks police did eliminate him from their inquiryies.
Persumably the location of his call was checked by telephone records.
The call he made to the Sturgis office at 4.45pm was most likely in response to previous calls he had received from DL or one of SJL's friends.
JMO

AS's book (page 6) states that DL did not receive a call from MG until 5.00 pm. As AL's call to Suzy was at 4.45 it couldn't have been DL who had contacted him. Maybe MG called him earlier? However, it also doesn't say what this call to Suzy was about.

He was also out of the office at some point for lunch with a friend, although it doesn't say who and at what time (AS page 17). He was at meetings all afternoon and did not leave his office until 7.00 (also page 17).

 

[Cluesleuth]

AS's book (page 6) states that DL did not receive a call from MG until 5.00 pm. As AL's call to Suzy was at 4.45 it couldn't have been DL who had contacted him. Maybe MG called him earlier? However, it also doesn't say what this call to Suzy was about.

He was also out of the office at some point for lunch with a friend, although it doesn't say who and at what time (AS page 17). He was at meetings all afternoon and did not leave his office until 7.00 (also page 17).

Thank you for the correction @WiseOwl

 

[WiseOwl]

Thank you for the correction @WiseOwl

No worries @Cluesleuth!

Another thing I noticed on page 17 of AS book (this page is a mine of information!), is that it took the police a lot of work, including 11 statements from others, before AL could be positively and formally eliminated from the enquiry.

11 statements seems quite a lot, so at one point did the police have their suspicions about AL?

 

[Cherwell]

I'm picturing the diary as one like this

Simply Slim Diary Week To View 2022 • Colemans

Slimline diary week to view format. Ideal to slip into a pocket or handbag

www.colemangroup.co.uk

I used to carry one of these, it kept track of the dates I was working plus appointments, and it had sections for phone numbers, addresses and general notes. It would have been roughly the same size as my cheque book, just a little shorter.

 

[Cherwell]

Another thing I noticed on page 17 of AS book (this page is a mine of information!), is that it took the police a lot of work, including 11 statements from others, before AL could be positively and formally eliminated from the enquiry.
11 statements seems quite a lot, so at one point did the police have their suspicions about AL?

Of course they did, he was "the boyfriend" so would automatically have been suspect number 1!
The number of statements simply reflects the fact that he had a lot of meetings with various people in various places that day, as opposed to being sitting in the same office with the same people all day.

 

[WiseOwl]

Of course they did, he was "the boyfriend" so would automatically have been suspect number 1!
The number of statements simply reflects the fact that he had a lot of meetings with various people in various places that day, as opposed to being sitting in the same office with the same people all day.

Where does it say he had meetings in various places that day? Again, on page 17 of AS book it says he had 'one out of the office' - apart from the office where are the other places?

 

[WestLondoner]

Where does it say he had meetings in various places that day? Again, on page 17 of AS book it says he had 'one out of the office' - apart from the office where are the other places?

And of course embedded in this is the assumption that he was "the" boyfriend, as opposed to being "one of a number".

 

[Whitehall 1212]

"The man who killed Suzy Lamplugh" video mentioned that JC was very bright and very sporty at school, this may be the common factor with SJL. And he knew something about ships from his brief spell in the Navy.

JC wasn't academically successful....a handful of 'O' levels and CSE's. Many teenage lads are sporty.

As far a being nautical is concerned a few months in the Merchant Navy probably taught him port from starboard, bow and stern. Although we must not forget his aspirations to be a ruff wearing pirate (did pirates wear ruff's?) shouting 'who's a pretty boy then' on the poop deck of his galleon.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

And of course embedded in this is the assumption that he was "the" boyfriend, as opposed to being "one of a number".

AL had known SJL for eleven months and been her lover for three. He was one of the 'Putney set'. (Source: As p.17).

The circumstances lend themselves to the reasonable conclusion that AL was 'the boyfriend', although probably not that serious at three months and with SJL apparently considering ending their relationship.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Have we pictured when he struck? How soon after the visit to Shorrolds Rd did this occur? Did he lure SL to Bishops Park and bundle her away when the champagne ran out and she wanted away? And why would she have drunk at all at that time of day? Drink driving laws were enforced even then. Maybe she didn't partake and he grew annoyed. Plenty to postulate on.

How far away did he take SL? I know one quiet outdoors spot in Fulham but it's not that near and further away from Hammersmith. My feeling (and only that) is that he took her to a house or flat nearby, otherwise further away to a quiet spot near the river, down by Chiswick Bridge perhaps or, more likely, Brentford.

The record of clues and evidence here, regrettably, is almost totally lacking.

Plenty of office people drank at lunchtimes in those days, it had no stigma attached to it back then. All through the late 80s and 90s I worked in offices including some within the civil service. Many people from the post room up to senior management would go for 'a couple' at lunchtime. At the BBC we even had Licence fee payer subsidised bars in every building, such was the severity of drinking culture until recent years. It's not long since we all had huge ashtrays on our desks and smoked in the office. If someone didn't drink, they were considered 'suspicious'. Things have changed A LOT since before the millennium, work culture has changed such a lot.

 

[Pinkizzy]

JC wasn't academically successful....a handful of 'O' levels and CSE's. Many teenage lads are sporty.

As far a being nautical is concerned a few months in the Merchant Navy probably taught him port from starboard, bow and stern. Although we must not forget his aspirations to be a ruff wearing pirate (did pirates wear ruff's?) shouting 'who's a pretty boy then' on the poop deck of his galleon.

Sir Francis Drake wore a ruff. And he was a pirate. That

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

UK police don't reveal the information, intelligence or evidence they have or how they came by it, during a live investigation, particularly if it involved CHIS or technical means.

What the police have alluded to in the documentaries is the amount of work that went into identifying and eliminating other possible suspects, building up a full profile of JC from many sources and identifying the places that JC did and didn't go.

There's a lot known about JC but unfortunately without SJL's body any opportunity for obtaining key direct evidence is very unlikely.

So if they believe that JC frequented the PoW, was also known to SJL who lived a stones throw, and that's where her missing cheque book and items were at the same time, why on earth would they have not forensically searched the PoW building, cellar, back yard, and the rear railway line even to this day. It makes no sense.

 

[KinseyWannabe]

I think it's fair to say that the JC investigation is at a sedimentary stage.

Or sedentary?

 

[Cherwell]

Where does it say he had meetings in various places that day? Again, on page 17 of AS book it says he had 'one out of the office' - apart from the office where are the other places?

I don't have the AS book. I borrowed it from the library and have returned it, so I'm unable to give page references.

As you yourself mentioned, the police needed to take statements from 11 people to establish AL's alibi, therefore it follows that he met with these eleven people, probably separately, during the course of the day. I don't know where he worked, but "the office" you refer to was likely not a single room but a suite of separate rooms and offices. So even if he didn't leave his work premises, except for the outside meeting, he was probably not in the same room all day.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Or sedentary?

Its a joke