ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

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Also, #1, if the phone was passed around (I’m not sure if that’s been confirmed but I heard something about that in the beginning as being a possibility, if not applicable then disregard)
Yes Moscow Police have confirmed that multiple people spoke to the dispatcher …

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call was made from one of the surviving roommates’ cell phones inside the residence. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before Moscow Police arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor.



Have Police ever released the time of their arrival at the house???

The 911 Call was placed at 11:58am.
 
Were you watching NewsNation? Did you see the former FBI guy talking about similar cases involving erotic asphyxia? I caught it, but not the whole thing, and I was curious what his theory was (though I heard him say it likely didn’t apply to this case.)

didn't watch it but that sounds strange

sounds like interviewer was just chucking in a sensationalist - but likely irrelevant - reference
 
Gives people something to bash LE over on social media lol
Heard multiple LE consultants explain during TV news coverage that- in the event of eg perp having leant on one of the vehicles or left finger prints - forensics would want to protect the exteriors in order to examine those & that ultimately those cars were included as part of the crime scene

Maybe they already examined the surfaces. However, because of the fact that the house was not screened & news photographers were present for days, I guess we would have seen the photos of forensics working the car exteriors.

Re 'LE bashing', yes it's easy to criticise MPD but maybe it would be more constructive to focus on their funding. Maybe that could assist training and resourcing going forward - Something for locals to consider? ( Ditto for those with a public platform but who focus on inadequacy & ' defunding')
 
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I apologize if this has been posted, but some insight re locks that I hadn’t seen before (article is from November 18.)

"When I would go there, the code wouldn't be activated, so we could just open the door and get in."

now that makes me a little nervous, as my college never bothered giving disparate codes to any college owned housing.

The same code would open front and back doors: laundry rooms, dorms with classrooms and dorms without.

This was the 90s so i grant there may be a fancy auto electronic way to keep track of them now.
 
Because this has been such a hot topic up & down the thread, I’m posting this. Maryland, Montana & Utah are the only states that have any limits on LE using consumer DNA databases for DNA matches, and they do allow it, just with oversight.
The public willingly gives up their DNA. There’s no expectation of privacy. LE routinely submit cold cases or John or Jane Doe identifications to consumer DNA sites for analysis.

Source:
I'm a big fan of Investigative Genealogy however when Gedmatch gave Utah permission to use their site for an assault that was not sexual in nature, I opted out. (And it turns out the perp was a minor. They would have solved the case without IG) I saw it as a slippery slope...

It took me three years to finally opt in.
So far, I have not seen a repeat. It was bad decision by Gedmatch and did not set a good precedence at all. I was really bummed about it. I was afraid IG would go downhill. I hope it stays the course and sticks to Does, murders and sex assaults. I feel if they can't find the guy with traditional means and they have an unknown DNA, I hope IG is utilized in this case. One good thing about Idaho is that it is next to Utah and they love their genealogy in Utah. Perp could have relatives in Utah.
 
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I apologize if this has been posted, but some insight re locks that I hadn’t seen before (article is from November 18.)

"When I would go there, the code wouldn't be activated, so we could just open the door and get in."

Were any of the victims high profile social media personalities or influencers?

The media article provides the address of the incident for perspective. Public knowledge. I think the house is actually fronted on Queen st.

1122 King Rd
 
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Sorry if this has already been posted, but what KG’s father says about the young man from the Food Truck is disturbing: his DNA would not have been collected and he would have gone abroad

"A major point of contention for the grieving father is a man who quickly scandalized the internet in the immediate aftermath of the slayings. In streaming footage, a man in a cap, dark jacket and light hoodie can be seen near Goncalves and Mogen, as they are ordering at a popular food truck.

In that footage, the man arrives right when they arrive, waits behind them while they order, walks with them, stands with them as they wait for their food, and speaks with other people at the truck. When the two women leave, however, he goes off in a different direction.

That man has since been identified and is not considered a suspect or person of interest in the investigation at this time, police said.

“Some people came to us and said that he’s out of the country, Steve Gonalves told the Manhattan-based tabloid. “He didn’t take a DNA test. So we would like [police] to tell us what his alibi was.”
Roommates Who Were Asleep Inside of Residence While Four Idaho Students Were Murdered Speak Out for the First Time
Surveillance from the Grub Food Truck and "Hoodie Guy" in the background was one of the first videos that surfaced in this investigation. For better than two weeks now, Moscow PD announced this person was not believed involved in the murders on Kings Rd. Detectives did not make this determination in a vacuum!

In the Investigation Update by MPD dated 12/5/22, the Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video remains on the list of individuals that detectives do not believe are involved in this crime.

To be clear, it's law enforcement that governs the investigation and names POIs /Suspects, not the grieving parents.

<modsnip>
 
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Not necessarily at all. Most do know their killers, but there are “true victim” crimes that happen all the time.

It may “look” like a rage killing because it’s bloody and with a knife— but even knife crimes can be sophisticated, and have a more calculated type of rage, if we were to use that term.

Crimes of Passion which are usually not premeditated, happen a lot with rage in the heat of the moment.

But not all knife crimes are not crimes of passion.

It depends on what you mean by rage? Just the act of being murdered would be considered a victim of someone’s rage, but, would we consider someone who was poisoned an act of rage if they were murdered? Probably not.

But the person slowly killing someone else with that poison could have been so filled with rage and delighted in the fact their victim was slowly fading away. The murderer had rage, but it didn’t really show up in the cause of death… We reserve rage for mass murders, Ax murders, stabbings, etc…

Obviously, Rolling, Bundy, The Night Stalker, BTK, etc… committed horribly violent murders arguably full of rage, but it wasn’t because the victim did anything to deserve it. They had no idea why they were being brutalized… but the killer knows and usually picks a victim (or a place that represents his anger/fixation, i.e. Roger Elliot) and uses the victims as stand ins for whatever it is they’re mad/fixated at/about.
Semantics
 
Because this has been such a hot topic up & down the thread, I’m posting this. Maryland, Montana & Utah are the only states that have any limits on LE using consumer DNA databases for DNA matches, and they do allow it, just with oversight.
The public willingly gives up their DNA. There’s no expectation of privacy. LE routinely submit cold cases or John or Jane Doe identifications to consumer DNA sites for analysis.

Source:
Idaho is all in, investing millions.

Potential Idaho cold case expansion could start to solve cases 'immediately'
The Idaho Cold Case and Advanced DNA Methods task force is looking to expand the search for justice with the application of another federal grant.

“Additionally, the task force is working towards different ways to test DNA and are hoping to be the first state lab in the country in the next few years to implement the entirety of options for DNA testing, rather than outsourcing to private labs.”

“Next week, Idaho will be hosting a Forensic Investigative Genetic Genealogy training for forensic agencies across the country that will then become the national training plan taught across the nation.”
 
I hope LE has a wide net that it is trawling through of possible suspects, one high profile stabbing murder of two women with one roommate surviving the attack was done by Eric Coppell who murdered his girlfriend's friend, he never fully explained what his motive was, speculation was that he was jealous of Adriane's friendship with Lily,

so, I hope they are looking outside their immediate friends and acquaintances,
 
Were any of the victims high profile social media personalities or influencers?

The media article provides the address of the incident for perspective. Public knowledge. I think the house is actually fronted on Queen st.

1122 King Rd
The victim's own families have acknowledged that many students not living in the Kings Road residence knew the door code and that the residence had a reputation as a "party house." Nonetheless, it seems the perp entered through the kitchen slider door and not the keyless basement door described in the linked news by OP. It's still devastating just the same.
 
didn't watch it but that sounds strange

sounds like interviewer was just chucking in a sensationalist - but likely irrelevant - reference
I was on the NN twitter earlier tonight and that quick segment is on there. I don't have a twitter account anymore but I know it's there if you'd like to look.

ETA, sounded like and attraction then relationship fantasy and the killer felt slighted.
 
Rumor control: • There has been extensive media interest regarding an incident at Taylor Avenue and Band Field on November 13, 2022, at 3:01 a.m. This incident was an alcohol offense which was addressed by the on-scene officer. This call is not related to the murder investigations. For further details regarding this incident, a Moscow Police Department

I’m not saying this is related, but what bothers me about this incident at 0301 is that the police were a stones throw away from the residence when the killings were thought to take place. How scary is that?
 
It’s really difficult for me to believe that the rules for Forensic Genetic Genealogy are the same in all states. Are they? Did this discussion specifically refer to the state of Idaho?

MOO
JMO.

The Angie Dodd murder in Idaho Falls, Idaho, was solved using genetic genealogy (the investigation featured an innocent person being convicted, then exonerated, and many other twists).

Although I wouldn’t rely on wiki for legal analysis, the entry linked above includes this statement:

While some states such as California, Idaho, Texas and Florida allow the use of familial searching, some areas of the United States like Maryland and the District of Columbia prohibit its use in criminal investigations.

JMO.
 
Oddly, I have thought about Jayme Closs’ case a few times during all this. While the cases are different, an abduction, though her family was murdered, I’m reminded of how the perp targeted Jayme: It was simply just a matter of him driving by one day when she was getting off the bus and him seeing her, and iirc him basically getting it in his mind at that moment that he was going to come back for her. A simple random sighting, and he became fixated on her. That was all it took in her case. It could be something like that here, someone drove by and saw one of them and vowed to come back, or maybe saw them at another location, followed them home and found out where they lived, and planned to come back.

I still think all possibilities could exist here as far as the perp, a complete stranger, to someone who just saw one or some of them in passing, to an acquaintance, to someone being closely known to one or some of them, and degrees in between.

I was remembering a few times how sometimes the perp turns out to be a neighbor who was previously interviewed and cleared, cleared in the sense the neighbor didn’t set off any alarm bells at the time during regular canvassing.

One would think if it was a neighbor or someone very close by, that he would be caught with all the local attention, etc., but then there’s examples like Richard Allen in Abby’s and Libby’s case. I/we used to say if it’s someone in the area, he likely would have been caught by now, but that obviously isn’t the case. Of course that case is different, and there was audio and video (which didn’t turn out to be helpful as far as him being recognized locally), but you get the general idea. In other words, if he’s close, and just because LE doesn’t find him, it doesn’t mean he’s not there. He could be “hiding in plain sight”, as so many killers do. Or maybe he’s nowhere near, or in between, I frankly have no idea on this one, everything is on the table. But if I had to guess from a distance, I would guess he’s close by.

One never knows what’s going on behind the scenes. They could have some really strong leads, be watching persons of interest, who knows, or they could have nothing (yet) as far as concrete leads on the killer, but as we know an important part of the process is of course trying to cross people off the list, and new things are constantly coming to light I would think, especially with all the tips, etc.

They always say the level of rage, stabbing, is likely personal, but there have certainly been cases where people were stabbed to death without there being a personal connection between the victim and the perp.

As for knowing the layout of the house and possibly being in the house before, of course very possible, but if he knew where they lived, floor plans are available online as we know, so this isn’t a sure thing, imo. And even without that, random perps have entered houses way before the internet and done their deeds. Sure, are some scenarios possibly more likely, yes, but again, with the basic information we have, I’m not sure certain things can be taken for granted as being the case.

Could it be someone who felt slighted, jealous, rejected, etc. specifically by one/some of these victims? Of course, but it could also imo just be some random psycho or stranger.

So, in summary, a bunch of rambling that basically says who knows how this will turn out. The thing I think about a lot is how long will it take to catch this person.
 
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Since there were numerous speakers on the 911 call per LE, it is not necessarily one of the victims that was “unconscious.”
Whoa. This puts another whole perspective. Was one of the surviving roommates unconscious? This makes way more sense to me. I always wondered who describes a stabbed person as unconscious? Is it possible they were ALL drugged and thus why no one heard anything? MOO
 
I was on the NN twitter earlier tonight and that quick segment is on there. I don't have a twitter account anymore but I know it's there if you'd like to look.

ETA, sounded like and attraction then relationship fantasy and the killer felt slighted.
thanks for the signpost

have found it now

mentions ' erotomania' as just one possible motivation of many ( I can't find anything on ' erotic asphyxiation' as per your post. Was that in a different clip?)

 
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To think LE entered the residence at noon, Yet Murphy was not discovered until that night - Rsbm
What? Sorry behind on details. How is this possible? Wouldn’t that be one of the first things the roommates would do, look for the dog? Wasn’t the dog in another area of the house? Sorry for rehash, looking for link.

Eta: LE would also clear the house, first thing.
 
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