Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #2

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http://wtop.com/local/2017/07/happened-lyon-sisters-lloyd-lee-welchs-changing-stories/

This is posted in the "no comments" section and deals with the changing accounts of LLW.

LLW was first interviewed by detectives in October 2013 where he claimed he saw the girls being put into a black car at the mall by a "minister" dressed in black.

In February 2014, LLW admitted seeing the girls after they left the mall- drugged and being raped by two males. He claims to have left after hearing one of the girls scream. He claimed his nephew led the girls out of the mall, but later recanted saying wasn't true.

Later in Feb, 2014, LLW admitted to planning with relatives to take the girls from the mall. LLW also claims his now deceased girlfriend Helen Craver had helped baby-sit the girls while in captivity.

In July 2014, LLW implicated his uncle Richard Welch.

If the timeline is correct, LLW was not interviewed again until almost a year later in May 2015 when he claimed to know where the girls were killed. LLW admitted to withholding information.

Very interesting. I am not sure if LLW is a credible witness at all or if his statements against himself can be believed. Seems very strange someone would make something as horrible as this up, but Henry Lee Lucas and his fabricated claims come to mind.
 
I could go with that. We all know that there is no way he could have done this without help! AND, he has already stated that others were involved. Perhaps life with no parole served in solitary.
 
There are a couple of parts of LLW's whole story that can actually be corroborated by witnesses; but then, he has also attempted to throw others "under the bus", so to speak. I have not seen anything about this in the news, but I am wondering if Richard Welch and prosecutors in Virginia made some sort of a deal in exchange for testimony.
 
I just hope that no one involved in this horrible crime gets a "free walk." NO ONE! And, there is no way LLW could have accomplished this alone or even with just his girlfriend's help and escaped justice for more than 40 years! It is time for the dominoes to start falling!
 
It should be obvious to just about anybody that Lloyd Lee Welch couldn't tell the truth if he stepped in it. Because he has (all his life) told so many lies, so often, he Can't be believed even if he were to accidentally tell the truth on one or two occasions.

Of course, he cannot be compelled to testify against himself. Statements he has already made (after waiving his rights) Could be used against him, but prosecutors would have to be ready to support any such statement with corroborating evidence.

If, while investigating some of his past statements (again with the caveat that his statements were obtained legally), LE were to discover other evidence then it could be introduced against him.

All of this becomes part of the rather complicated business of prosecution and defense as it goes to trial. Previous statements made by Welch could be introduced, but his reputation as a liar would have to be addressed. And, of course, the defense will try to have any incriminating statements or admissions by Welch thrown out for various legal reasons.
 
The court ruled that all of Lloyd Lee Welch's statements are fair game. His attorneys tried to get the court to rule otherwise on the statements he gave to officials in Maryland, but Maryland took the statements with the understanding that LLW was a witness, not a participant, so all of LLW's statements were gotten legally. Any witnesses to Katherine and Sheila's presence at RAW's home would corroborate LLW's statements, and it looks as if there are a couple of such witnesses.
 
It would take a long stretch of imagination to believe that Montgomery County Police only considered Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. a potential witness when they were interviewing him in prison in 2013.

Welch had actually come forward voluntarily as a witness on 1 April 1975 offering information in hopes of claiming a $7,000 reward. MCP took his statement and sent him off without looking into him or his story.

In 2013, investigators were clearly trying to link Welch to the story of the Long Haired Man (LHM) who had been been seen following the girls at Wheaton Plaza and who was described to a police artist.

That LHM sketch and story was withheld from the public for over 38 years. Then in November 2013 the sketch was released for the first time with a cover story about a series of rapes being investigated. The cover story DID mention in passing "an incident at Wheaton Plaza in March 1975" but did not mention the Lyon Sisters.

The LHM sketch was "re-released" in a spectacular side-by-side presentation with a mug shot of Lloyd Welch in February 2014 during the press conference naming Welch as a person of interest.

Statements made by Welch to Montgomery County Police investigators probably WERE made by him under his belief that he was only being considered a "witness" rather than a suspect. And it is possible that Welch's rights were NOT read to him at the time he began talking to them (since LE could say that he was only being questioned as a witness). The question which begs asking is: "At what point did he officially become a suspect and when were his rights read to him?"

Welch was no innocent lamb in 2013. Investigators knew of his criminal record and his past - and may well have had suspicions about his possible connection with the abductors of the Lyon Sisters, since they had his statements from 1975 in their files.

Investigators certainly played the "witness" angle on Welch in their interviews with him. They even got WMAL radio to state in writing that the $7,000 reward offered in 1975 would still be honored. Police investigators could show Welch that he stood to gain that reward by talking to them about his 1975 "witness" information.

The issue of admissibility of Welch's statements is likely to be addressed again before the trial is over, and may be one of the main legal issues in the event of any subsequent appeals.
 
Richard said:
It would take a long stretch of imagination to believe that Montgomery County Police only considered Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. a potential witness when they were interviewing him in prison in 2013.

Welch had actually come forward voluntarily as a witness on 1 April 1975 offering information in hopes of claiming a $7,000 reward. MCP took his statement and sent him off without looking into him or his story.

In 2013, investigators were clearly trying to link Welch to the story of the Long Haired Man (LHM) who had been been seen following the girls at Wheaton Plaza and who was described to a police artist.

That LHM sketch and story was withheld from the public for over 38 years. Then in November 2013 the sketch was released for the first time with a cover story about a series of rapes being investigated. The cover story DID mention in passing "an incident at Wheaton Plaza in March 1975" but did not mention the Lyon Sisters.

The LHM sketch was "re-released" in a spectacular side-by-side presentation with a mug shot of Lloyd Welch in February 2014 during the press conference naming Welch as a person of interest.

Statements made by Welch to Montgomery County Police investigators probably WERE made by him under his belief that he was only being considered a "witness" rather than a suspect. And it is possible that Welch's rights were NOT read to him at the time he began talking to them (since LE could say that he was only being questioned as a witness). The question which begs asking is: "At what point did he officially become a suspect and when were his rights read to him?"

Welch was no innocent lamb in 2013. Investigators knew of his criminal record and his past - and may well have had suspicions about his possible connection with the abductors of the Lyon Sisters, since they had his statements from 1975 in their files.

Investigators certainly played the "witness" angle on Welch in their interviews with him. They even got WMAL radio to state in writing that the $7,000 reward offered in 1975 would still be honored. Police investigators could show Welch that he stood to gain that reward by talking to them about his 1975 "witness" information.

The issue of admissibility of Welch's statements is likely to be addressed again before the trial is over, and may be one of the main legal issues in the event of any subsequent appeals.
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I think that the release of the LHM sketch in November 2013 was also done to find other victims of LLW2 that could help put the pieces together. Some of them will testify in the penalty phase if he is found guilty. The LHM sketch should have been released in 1975.
Sure the $7k reward could have been used to fool LLW2, but also potentially to entice others who have been silent to finally come forward.
 
"The issue of admissibility of Welch's statements is likely to be addressed again before the trial is over, and may be one of the main legal issues in the event of any subsequent appeals."

The court has already addressed this, via a motion by the defense. Welch's statements, as per the order of the court, are allowed. Any deviation from this will most assuredly have to be addressed in an appeal, and the judge used reasons for allowing the statements that make perfect legal sense. It is unlikely that LLW will have any success suppressing his statements.
 
zensiert said:
I think that the release of the LHM sketch in November 2013 was also done to find other victims of LLW2 that could help put the pieces together. Some of them will testify in the penalty phase if he is found guilty. The LHM sketch should have been released in 1975.
Sure the $7k reward could have been used to fool LLW2, but also potentially to entice others who have been silent to finally come forward.
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I agree that the November 2013 release of the LHM sketch was probably an attempt to gather more information on Lloyd Lee Welch from other possible victims - or specifically on him in regard to the Lyon Case. Such a theory tends to support my feeling that LE had already decided that LHM and Welch were the same person, even though they did not name him as their suspect at the time.

The $7,000 reward offered by WMAL back on 1 April 1975 was to go to the FIRST person who offered information that led to the safe return of the Lyon sisters. Welch saw the reward story in the same morning edition of the newspaper that broke the story of the Tape Recorder Man. He was looking at the paper with his girlfriend at his Hyattsville home and remarked (according to his stepmother, Edna Welch) that he might try to get that reward. That same afternoon, he appeared at Wheaton Plaza and approached a security guard to offer his information. He was soon being interviewed by Montgomery County Police.

The reaffirmation of the reward by WMAL was made specifically in response to a request by Montgomery County Police. While it might have been a potential enticement to someone else to come forward, it was most likely meant specifically for their interviews with Welch. If they wanted to use a reward to generate new clues, they could easily have used their own Crime Solvers reward system which these days is usually for $25,000.
 
One month until September 12, 2017.

Hard to believe that finally after 42 years, Lloyd Lee Welch Jr. will be on trial for the Lyon sister's murders in one month.
 
zensiert said:
One month until September 12, 2017.

Hard to believe that finally after 42 years, Lloyd Lee Welch Jr. will be on trial for the Lyon sister's murders in one month.
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Long time coming. Hope everyone involved is brought to justice.
 
I would be really surprised if it was really him. The police did sloppy work when this broke. It had been a mystery all along around the area. I still have all the stuff from the aftermath like the local mall giving out fingerprints to kids in case one of us were kidnapped.
 
Alfie said:
I would be really surprised if it was really him. The police did sloppy work when this broke. It had been a mystery all along around the area. I still have all the stuff from the aftermath like the local mall giving out fingerprints to kids in case one of us were kidnapped.
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Really? I lived in that area when this happened, and I do not recall children being fingerprinted anywhere in Maryland after this happened. I am actually not surprised at all to see this defendant charged with these two crimes. While the police did not look in the right directions immediately after the girls were taken, it appears that they, along with the FBI, did a very thorough job over the past couple of years. Without anyone obstructing justice, this case could have been solved a long time ago.
 
And with that, it is over, I suppose.

Welch pleads guilty to first-degree murder in 1975 Lyon sisters killings


http://wtop.com/local/2017/09/plea-expected-1975-lyon-sisters-murder/

[FONT=&amp]BEDFORD, Va. — The convicted sex offender charged with the 1975 murders of Sheila and Katherine Lyon has pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree felony murder.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Lloyd Lee Welch, 60, was sentenced to 48 years in prison Tuesday.
[/FONT]
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Additional details (but not much).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...d968d0-8d93-11e7-8df5-c2e5cf46c1e2_story.html

Also in court, prosecutors laid out an outline of what happened to the girls, relying in part on Welch’s earlier recollections of what he saw in 1975.

In the prosecutors’ narrative, the girls were abducted from the Wheaton mall and killed.

The remains of one or both girls were taken, by Welch, to land his family owned in a rural part of Bedford County, Va., where he tossed the remains into a fire, according to prosecutors.

Left unanswered is who, besides Welch was involved in the Lyon sisters deaths, where they were killed, and where the bodies are. Authorities have said other participants in murders are either dead or their roles could not be proven.
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Welch said he was in the basement, in the days after the girls were abducted and saw his father and an uncle dismember one of the Lyon sisters, according to court records.

The older men threatened him, Welch said, and forced him to clean up the remains and take them to family land in Bedford, detectives recounted in pretrial testimony.
Click to expand...
 
There still are many unanswered questions. I hope the judge will be able to release the gag order and that law enforcement will be able to tie up the many loose ends.

The frustrating part of these cases resolutions is sometimes the lack of a narrative or timeline. LLW apparently did lie at least somewhat in the initial interviews with investigators. I am not sure if we can even expect his entire confession to be truthful; his defense attorney seems to insist he had nothing to do with sexually assaulting these poor young girls. For someone who already had multiple child-sex convictions, I don't think it is even possible to "save face".

I think detectives will reveal at least that LLW had knowledge that only an insider would have- something that was never revealed in the press. This could be a detail about an article of clothing or a physical/personality trait.

I do not know the time frame or the procedure for obtaining the evidence against LLW, but I think it would be very fascinating to find out how a case was built after so many years. It may be as simple as a bluff that placed LLW at the mall.

Hats off to MoCo police detectives for your great work!
 
There are indeed a lot of unanswered questions remaining. Hopefully Welch will be compelled as part of his plea agreement to provide some answers that can be checked into. Hopefully the girls' bodies can be recovered. Hopefully others responsible will be named.
 
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