Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

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human said:
What does this mean——-To date close to 150 bulk or packaged items have been seized and are currently being reviewed and forensically analysed
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I believe it means evidence that has been gathered from the scene.
 
Pamela_Brewer said:
"Winter said, a handwritten note from a trustee who visited Beverly shortly before her death noted she was 'visibly upset' and, 'worried that Barry is trying to steal the company from the children."

This woman is on her death bed dying from cancer and she is leaving behind 4 small children! She is concerned that BARRY is going to take "the business" from her children??
Doesn't it seem she'd be more concerned about who would RAISE her children?

Maybe it just me, but I would be less concerned about what happened to the "business" than the fact that my children were going to be orphans!

This just all sounds so far fetched!
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-snipped for focus-

Agree. I'm skeptical of anything that KW says, especially when it is so blatantly self serving.

It also seems odd that a dying mother would be concerned about a business that her children wouldn't be capable of running for a couple of decades, even presuming they wanted to. It's just not logical. The obvious thing to do would be to sell... a whole lot can happen to a business in 10 or 20 years. It would be far less risky to sell and invest the proceeds just to lower the risk and preserve their capital.

JDG said:
Seeing as BW did not want the children to be raised by any family, I imagine their portions went into trust with the courts. BW also didn't reply when BS suggested taking over the firm a few days after LW died.
We do not know what her reasons but she definitely didn't want BS in charge of Empire and trusted RT to do the right thing by her children.

This could well have been the kicking off point for all of the distress that has ensued.

Its all a moot point, BS did get Empire, did sell Empire and eventually bought his own company, Apotex.
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-snipped for focus-
BBM

I don't think it necessarily follows that she didn't respond because she didn't want him in charge of Empire. She was quite literally on her deathbed. She may very well have been incapable of responding... too sick, too medicated, too much pain...

As I noted above, I'm skeptical of any information that comes from KW.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Grey-St said:
I believe it means evidence that has been gathered from the scene.
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Maybe it is a Canadian way to express it. But it seems weird. Bulk items? Packaged items? LE puts items into bulk and packages them as well?
 
clearskies1 said:
I appreciate your opinion. Didn't mean to anger you with mine. I know a hit can be any killing mode. I do think a double strangulation would be an unusual kind of a hit though. But I understand you disagree with that a lot.
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Im not angry at all. TPS has given us the answer as to how they died. They are of the opinion that it was a targeted double murder.

Don't know why people would still be guessing when you have the answer.

There are many parts of the puzzle we may never have but we do know what we know.

If you are American, guns are a much bigger problem than if you are in Canada.
 
human said:
Maybe it is a Canadian way to express it. But it seems weird. Bulk items? Packaged items? LE puts items into bulk and packages them as well?
Click to expand...

I wonder if "bulk" items may refer to the planters, themselves, etc.?
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
-snipped for focus-

Agree. I'm skeptical of anything that KW says, especially when it is so blatantly self serving.

It also seems odd that a dying mother would be concerned about a business that her children wouldn't be capable of running for a couple of decades, even presuming they wanted to. It's just not logical. The obvious thing to do would be to sell... a whole lot can happen to a business in 10 or 20 years. It would be far less risky to sell and invest the proceeds just to lower the risk and preserve their capital.



-snipped for focus-
BBM

I don't think it necessarily follows that she didn't respond because she didn't want him in charge of Empire. She was quite literally on her deathbed. She may very well have been incapable of responding... too sick, too medicated, too much pain...

As I noted above, I'm skeptical of any information that comes from KW.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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I agree with what you say. KW would like us to believe that BS was only there with his mother to 'get' Empire from her but he could have been there as support, with her husband having just died. Or he maybe he thought she would ask him to keep his eye on the children, as he was still working on degrees and quite young himself.

Visiting a dying relative isn't necessarily to 'steal the pennies from a dead mans eyes' but KW may wish to paint that portrait.

He is certainly one very angry man.
 
JDG said:
Hazel, maybe you should 'spill'! you've got me intrigued. :thinking:
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:whiteflag:
It's just a theory, and it's only based on what we know so far. I know many are going to go "oh no, not again!" :waiting:

We have read about them being very different as in "opposites attract" and that works well up to a certain point. One article I read describes her as a "party animal" and he would rather go to the dentist than to another fundraiser.

For years he worked 6 days a week, and worked until late. During the family trip he would rather spend time writing his book.

So, I am wondering how things were after he retired 5 years ago, and if he was looking forward to the trip to Florida with full agenda of social engagements.

At their age, people usually think of downsizing and yet they were in the process of building a bigger house. All very exciting for her, but how about him? With all the other pressing problems he had in his mind, not being able to bury himself in work like before and having to listen to her talking about all the planning the wedding, parties, spending money, selecting tiles, curtains, windows, etc. etc., instead of purchasing an already built house, anticipating all the problems they could encounter when building the new home ... maybe he couldn't take it anymore and...
 
Hazel said:
:whiteflag:
It's just a theory, and it's only based on what we know so far. I know many are going to go "oh no, not again!" :waiting:

We have read about them being very different as in "opposites attract" and that works well up to a certain point. One article I read describes her as a "party animal" and he would rather go to the dentist than to another fundraiser.

For years he worked 6 days a week, and worked until late. During the family trip he would rather spend time writing his book.

So, I am wondering how things were after he retired 5 years ago, and if he was looking forward to the trip to Florida with full agenda of social engagements.

At their age, people usually think of downsizing and yet they were in the process of building a bigger house. All very exciting for her, but how about him? With all the other pressing problems he had in his mind, not being able to bury himself in work like before and having to listen to her talking about all the planning the wedding, parties, spending money, selecting tiles, curtains, windows, etc. etc., instead of purchasing an already built house, anticipating all the problems they could encounter when building the new home ... maybe he couldn't take it anymore and...
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*********And, I am sorry if this offends anyone, it is not meant to. *******

But, when anyone retires they are often under the feet of the person who is at home. The person at home, is used to going about their day and the retiree, is often following them around like a puppy, with a 'what are we going to do now?" look on their face. THAT can be exasperating.

*******As I said, not trying to offend anyone. BUT its true.******
 
Must admit, Hazel, after all those years of a workaholic, she would probably just have adapted to his habits, and he, hers.

The people we've known like that, either split much earlier on or the compromise a fair bit and kinda lead almost separate lives.

The Florida trip was just for over Christmas, not a long period of time. Then, back to the office.
 
Hazel said:
:whiteflag:
It's just a theory, and it's only based on what we know so far. I know many are going to go "oh no, not again!" :waiting:

We have read about them being very different as in "opposites attract" and that works well up to a certain point. One article I read describes her as a "party animal" and he would rather go to the dentist than to another fundraiser.

For years he worked 6 days a week, and worked until late. During the family trip he would rather spend time writing his book.

So, I am wondering how things were after he retired 5 years ago, and if he was looking forward to the trip to Florida with full agenda of social engagements.

At their age, people usually think of downsizing and yet they were in the process of building a bigger house. All very exciting for her, but how about him? With all the other pressing problems he had in his mind, not being able to bury himself in work like before and having to listen to her talking about all the planning the wedding, parties, spending money, selecting tiles, curtains, windows, etc. etc., instead of purchasing an already built house, anticipating all the problems they could encounter when building the new home ... maybe he couldn't take it anymore and...
Click to expand...

I thought about that too...but a lot of people will reject the idea given that LE has said said that they think BS and HS were targeted.
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
-snipped for focus-

Agree. I'm skeptical of anything that KW says, especially when it is so blatantly self serving.

It also seems odd that a dying mother would be concerned about a business that her children wouldn't be capable of running for a couple of decades, even presuming they wanted to. It's just not logical. The obvious thing to do would be to sell... a whole lot can happen to a business in 10 or 20 years. It would be far less risky to sell and invest the proceeds just to lower the risk and preserve their capital.



-snipped for focus-
BBM

I don't think it necessarily follows that she didn't respond because she didn't want him in charge of Empire. She was quite literally on her deathbed. She may very well have been incapable of responding... too sick, too medicated, too much pain...

As I noted above, I'm skeptical of any information that comes from KW.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Trust companies collect healthy profits from running trusts, they would not wanted to give up a money train until it became clear (as BS pointed out) that they were not fulfilling their fiduciary duty as corporate sales dropped. They may have even tried to talk BW into keeping it managed by them.
 
Hazel...I have exactly the same thought.Possibly she gave him an ultimatum.How many night s should she eat alone or wait till after 9.They were getting old and perhaps she wanted him to spend more time playing golf etc.By all reports he was no athlete and did not enjoy socializing.Something she said may have enraged him and cause him to lose it and accidentally kill her.To save face realizing his life was essentially over he thought he could cover it up by committing suicide with the belt and making it look like they both did.I just cant shake that thought.
 
hudunit said:
Hazel...I have exactly the same thought.Possibly she gave him an ultimatum.How many night s should she eat alone or wait till after 9.They were getting old and perhaps she wanted him to spend more time playing golf etc.By all reports he was no athlete and did not enjoy socializing.Something she said may have enraged him and cause him to lose it and accidentally kill her.To save face realizing his life was essentially over he thought he could cover it up by committing suicide with the belt and making it look like they both did.I just cant shake that thought.
Click to expand...

I don't understand where this is coming from when LE have declared this to be a double homicide?
 
human said:
What does this mean——-To date close to 150 bulk or packaged items have been seized and are currently being reviewed and forensically analysed
Click to expand...

It made me think of Costco and paper towels for some reason. The same product packaged in large quantities. A flat of Apotex drugs?
 
...
***warning*** graphic - don't read if you'll get upset
===============


hired someone (or team), gave them the house keys (no forced entry)

told them where to wait for her (front door? side door?)

He leaves work 3 hours later (alibi)

Goes down the ramp into garage.

him/team are there waiting for pay.

Theory 1 (murder / murder with a twist)

Things didn't go according to plan, she's all bloody, it was supposed to be fast and clean.

Because of sloppy job, he decides to pay them less.

That enrages killer/s and kill him too.


Theory 2 (murder / accidental/involuntary death)

All went according to plan. He pays them as agreed. House keys are given back.

Lets him/them tie hands very tight then remove ties so it looks like he's been roughed up a little, and take ties with them so it will look like someone was there.

Jacket/coat is pulled down to restrain arms, sits on floor, belt around neck (not very tight), then belt wrapped around railing.

Killer/s leave the house (not sure how, haven't thought about that, maybe through garage door, so they wont have to lock the upstairs doors).

He sits there and waits to be discovered the next morning, and be "saved."

Something goes wrong, nobody went looking for them the next morning!!!

He waits and waits, sitting on that hard flooring. Hours goes by, and at some point he either falls asleep, or gets itchy, or tries to adjust position, and slides and the belt is now chocking him. He tries and tries to get up, but hands are stuck in jacket.

ALL JUST PRODUCT OF MY OVERACTIVE IMAGINATION.

Please be gentle when shooting down theories :couch: :poke:
 
hudunit said:
LE has been wrong before
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Det-Sgt Gomes has a great track record.

In 2014, Gomes was nominated for the Ontario Women in Law Enforcement’s Excellence in Performance Award for a case in which she devoted hours examining 8,000 text message and other cellphone data to help solve a drive-by shooting. In 2015, she was awarded a teamwork commendation by the Toronto Police Services Board.
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http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...g-sherman-probe-has-proven-track-record-.html
 
PaulR said:
Trust companies collect healthy profits from running trusts, they would not wanted to give up a money train until it became clear (as BS pointed out) that they were not fulfilling their fiduciary duty as corporate sales dropped. They may have even tried to talk BW into keeping it managed by them.
Click to expand...
The proceeds from the sale would still be in the trust, plenty of fees to be charged for overseeing the money.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
hudunit said:
LE has been wrong before
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Considering what we know about the crime scene, I don't think the LE is wrong. Saying this is a murder suicide is negating key evidence already confirmed. They were both bound by the wrists at one point and they both had their jackets pulled down to control their arms. They both had a belt around their necks and was tied to the rails near the pool. I am not sure how BS would strangle himself and then tie himself to the railing with his arms bound behind him.

The PIs gave the same conclusion.
 
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