17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #31

[cityslick]

CS, are you purposing trying to mislead here? :what:

Of course there was a phone call...how do you think they uncovered who TM was talking to a minute before being shot dead?

He should have been home tucked in his bed and not on a slab in the morgue...GZ is the aggressor, didn't back off when told to...shot a teen dead when he truly didn't have to...He was 'itching' to use his weapon, is the impression I get..a disappointed cop, walking tall with loaded weapon tucked in his waistband...without it, he's a nothing...cried in his cell...big bad George crying in his cell....was he feeling sorry for killilng TM or sorry it didn't go his way with the SYG defense...

I didn't mean there wasn't no phone call, see my earlier post. I was asking about specifically when it happened and how it lines up with 'he's running' by GZ. See my post in the earlier thread trying to math out run distances from where it's estimated he may have been when GZ said 'he's running'.

 

[Aedrys]

Please provide a link to where it was stated that GZ ambushed TM.

TM may have committed a crime if he is the one that started the physical altercation.



Have you seen the movie Twelve Angry Men? Excellent movie!

How about a link where TM ambushed GZ? There is no proof of who started the altercation, but it seems a-okay to believe that TM ambushed GZ, but not okay to say that GZ ambushed TM. I don't get that.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Please provide a link to where it was stated that GZ ambushed TM.

TM may have committed a crime if he is the one that started the physical altercation.



Have you seen the movie Twelve Angry Men? Excellent movie!

Can't give a link when it's from my mind...I feel he was ambushed...you don't have to agree..but you guys are really snarky lately here...taking the victim as the perp and the perp as the victim...What the hell is wrong with that picture...FGS...

TM was being pursued by GZ...he ambused him at the foot path, he should have been long in his vehicle, is my belief..and if TM punched him, he was well within his own SYG defense...big dude following TM, where he was worried about why this guy was following him...

 

[cityslick]

Can't give a link when it's from my mind...I feel he was ambushed...you don't have to agree..but you guys are really snarky lately here...taking the victim as the perp and the perp as the victim...What the hell is wrong with that picture...FGS...

TM was being pursued by GZ...he ambused him at the foot path, he should have been long in his vehicle, is my belief..and if TM punched him, he was well within his own SYG defense...big dude following TM, where he was worried about why this guy was following him...

I'm just trying to sleuth out where everyone was at different points that night. I've never said anything about who ambushed who.

 

[Phoenixfla]

To my knowledge, only the bill has been made public, showing a call coming in to Trayvon from his friend at 7:12 and lasting for 4 minutes. So the call could have been from 7:12 to 7:16 or it could have come in a little later and ended a little sooner depending on the cell phone company's policy of rounding. I think we will have to wait for the actual phone records to know the exact times.

If the 4 minute call was just a 4 minute voicemail left for TM, would it appear differently on the bill, or does it appear the same as receiving a call?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

see you all later before I get timed out or banned...

this is really very frustrating to suggest the victim didn't try hard enough to get to his door...


shame on those who think this teen is the problem and not GZ, who isn't even close to fulfilling his dreams at 29 y/o....that tells alot about a guy who doens't have his career set, yet...:banghead:

 

[cityslick]

see you all later before I get timed out or banned...

this is really very frustrating to suggest the victim didn't try hard enough to get to his door...


shame on those who think this teen is the problem and not GZ, who isn't even close to fulfilling his dreams at 29 y/o....that tells alot about a guy who doens't have his career set, yet...:banghead:

I never said that either. GZ's asserts that TM came and ambushed him, which means obviously that TM would not have gone straight home if that was the truth. Why is it not fair to track TM's movements as well as GZ's? They were both part of the incident that night.

 

[mercuriod]

Thanks, so according the that log and going off of distances we have seen, TM should of been on his doorstep (or very close to it) by the time he was talking to the GF.

Is there some reason that TM should not have been allowed to have privacy during his phone call with his GF away from the prying ears of his 13 year old soon to be step brother? Do you for some reason think that Trayvon had no right to be outside? Why is there a problem that Trayvon may have thought that he had lost his crazy perverted stalker and decided to continue his conversation with his GF?

 

[Phoenixfla]

How about a link where TM ambushed GZ? There is no proof of who started the altercation, but it seems a-okay to believe that TM ambushed GZ, but not okay to say that GZ ambushed TM. I don't get that.

I never claimed anyone ambushed anyone. I never said TM ambushed GZ.

My personal belief, based on the evidence, is that TM was getting angry that GZ was watching him, and decided to confront GZ after nearly reaching his home. I further believe that the reported lack of injury to TM indicates that TM may have been the agressor in the physical confrontation. IMO

 

[cityslick]

Is there some reason that TM should not have been allowed to have privacy during his phone call with his GF away from the prying ears of his 13 year old soon to be step brother? Do you for some reason think that Trayvon had no right to be outside? Why is there a problem that Trayvon may have thought that he had lost his crazy perverted stalker and decided to continue his conversation with his GF?

No there isn't, but that's an opinion of yours, not a verified fact, right?

ETA: Remember, GZ said 'he was running' and that happened before the phone call.

 

[mercuriod]

I never claimed anyone ambushed anyone. I never said TM ambushed GZ.

My personal belief, based on the evidence, is that TM was getting angry that GZ was watching him, and decided to confront GZ after nearly reaching his home. I further believe that the reported lack of injury to TM indicates that TM may have been the agressor in the physical confrontation. IMO

BBM: Lack of injury to TM? Are you serious? You don't think a deadly gunshot wound directly to the chest is an injury?

 

[Steft50]

One thing that bothers me is was GZ covered in TM blood?
If you are struggling and shoot a person, doesn't his blood get all over you???
Did GZ shoot from afar?
Powder burns?
Have I missed this???
Thanks

Something I heard a long time ago is bleeding out stops once the heart stops pumping. Could be there was little blood if Trayvon died pretty quickly if that is true.

 

[m00c0w]

Is there some reason that TM should not have been allowed to have privacy during his phone call with his GF away from the prying ears of his 13 year old soon to be step brother? Do you for some reason think that Trayvon had no right to be outside? Why is there a problem that Trayvon may have thought that he had lost his crazy perverted stalker and decided to continue his conversation with his GF?

Is there actual evidence the "brother" was home that night? So far, I've seen the story change a few times on that one. The final version of events implying he was not home.

 

[Concerned Papa]

The picture being painted is GZ as the aggressor, chasing TM with a gun throughout the neighborhood. And yet, somehow TM winds up not far from where GZ initially saw him 'running'. In fact, there is no evidence that GZ had left the vicinity of his car because we have no idea where the actual confrontation started. If GZ was looking all over the place for TM, he didn't go very far from his car, considering the fact the car and the spot where TM lay was probably somewhere around 200 ft (little over 50 yds).

ETA: In addition, TM was never that far from his house. He could of ran to his house, ran inside and locked the door before GZ ever caught sight of him again.

Not far from where he started running? According to the SPD and SFD his body was 100 feet from where he started running, and equally important 233 feet from GZ's vehicle.

As to any evidence of GZ leaving the area of his car, I don't know what evidence they may or may not have other than the very simple response given by the Investigator at the Bond Hearing:

O'MARA: Since. Today. Do you have any evidence that conflicts with his suggestion that he had turned around and went back to his car?

GILBREATH: Other than his statement, no.

When his statement, with the 911 call's running times in red, is now locked into the record as follows:

O'MARA: Mr. Zimmerman gave a statement that very night, did he not?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O'MARA: And within that statement, he said that he saw somebody, he was concerned, he got out of his car, he called non-emergency, and began to go towards the person. [2:08] Is that paraphrasing but pretty correct so far?

GILBREATH: Paraphrasing, yes.

O'MARA: Ok. And if I go wrong, stop me and let me know where I wrong.

GILBREATH: I will.

O'MARA: And then he said he went back around and went towards his car, did he not? In his statement.

GILBREATH: In his statement after he was told not to talk by the dispatcher. [2:26]

O'MARA: Got you.

GILBREATH: He says that he continued on to find a street sign and then went back to his car.

O'MARA: So he said before he knew anyone else saw or did not see what had happened, he gave a statement saying he went back to his car, correct?

GILBREATH: No. Towards his car.

O'MARA: Would it be safe to assume then in giving him, and him giving that statement to the police wherein he said one, "I turned around and went back to my car"; and two, that he did not start the fight and that he was assaulted by Mr. Martin. When he gave that statement, did he have any indication that there were or were not half a dozen witnesses who saw the whole thing?

He has clearly told LE AND his attorney that he followed TM for 18 seconds, then went on an "address hunt" requiring that he continue walking for 80 feet to the front of the building he was behind, and then started walking back towards his truck but was attacked by TM.

It doesn't get any more simple than that. He walked for 18 seconds, then walked 80 feet more, then was walking back to his truck. Any way you look at it, it would take LESS than 1 minute.

That's his story, and that's why "other than his statement, no" is all the State will need to prove he's lying about that night. IMO, what TM could or couldn't have done won't have a big bearing on anything once the jury gets a handle on GZ's timeline.

 

[m00c0w]

BBM: Lack of injury to TM? Are you serious? You don't think a deadly gunshot wound directly to the chest is an injury?

No need to be pedantic. I think it's clear what he meant.

 

[mercuriod]

Is there some reason that TM should not have been allowed to have privacy during his phone call with his GF away from the prying ears of his 13 year old soon to be step brother? Do you for some reason think that Trayvon had no right to be outside? Why is there a problem that Trayvon may have thought that he had lost his crazy perverted stalker and decided to continue his conversation with his GF?

No there isn't, but that's an opinion of yours, not a verified fact, right?

ETA: Remember, GZ said 'he was running' and that happened before the phone call.

I am going to assume you are asking about the part BB & in red? And please notice my signature line.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Can't give a link when it's from my mind...I feel he was ambushed...you don't have to agree..but you guys are really snarky lately here...taking the victim as the perp and the perp as the victim...What the hell is wrong with that picture...FGS...

TM was being pursued by GZ...he ambused him at the foot path, he should have been long in his vehicle, is my belief..and if TM punched him, he was well within his own SYG defense...big dude following TM, where he was worried about why this guy was following him...

I'm sorry if you feel I am I am being snarky. It was not intended. I appolgize if that is how I came across.

..and if TM punched him, he was well within his own SYG defense

I'll have to disagree with you there. Please listen to the excellent interview with Richard Hornsby on Websleuths Radio if you feel TM was within his rights to throw the first punch. They discuss it in great detail.

 

[Gin]

see you all later before I get timed out or banned...

this is really very frustrating to suggest the victim didn't try hard enough to get to his door...


shame on those who think this teen is the problem and not GZ, who isn't even close to fulfilling his dreams at 29 y/o....that tells alot about a guy who doens't have his career set, yet...:banghead:

JMO/IMO
I totally understand. It's bad enough Trayvon's life was snuffed out. Do we really need to question if whether or not he tried hard enough to avoid being murdered? :banghead:

 

[HiHater]

If the 4 minute call was just a 4 minute voicemail left for TM, would it appear differently on the bill, or does it appear the same as receiving a call?

It doesn't matter IMO, because in this case there was an actual phone call...:moo::twocents:

 

[Phoenixfla]

BBM: Lack of injury to TM? Are you serious? You don't think a deadly gunshot wound directly to the chest is an injury?

The gunshot wound was not what started the confrontation. Please look back at the previous posts and you will see that we were discussing evidence of how the physical confrontation started. I have not seen any evidence that indicated that GZ threw the first punch.