17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[Elley Mae]

OK something just struck me there. Why was he worried about TM hearing him give an address over the phone. If TM was hiding 5 foot from him why would saying his address to a person on a phone mean anything to someone who was not hearing the whole conversation? What in the world was going on in his paranoid brain? IMO

It tells me that at that moment GZ could not see TM, this was just before the two got physical. It tells me that GZ was behind the units at that time where he could not see if TM was close enough to hear where he lived. There are lots of hiding places in the back of the units with all of people's "stuff" and such. We know that TM left the road area and went behind the units to lose GZ jmo. There was a cat and mouse thing going on jmo. We don't know what happened in those last minutes between to two.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Officer Smith said he handcuffed the suspect then took out his 9mm from the waistband. There is no way he would have handcuffed him in the front then removed the gun.



http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/24/2765903/trayvons-image-was-irrelevant.html
Column by Fabiola Santiago:

Trayvon’s image was irrelevant in shooting

By Fabiola Santiago
fsantiago@MiamiHerald.com

Nearly two months after killing Trayvon Martin with a gunshot to the chest, George Zimmerman apologized to his parents.

“I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son,” Zimmerman said at his bond hearing.

Then, answering questions Trayvon’s mother had raised on television weeks before, he added: “I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.”

The awkward apology is illustrative of how little Zimmerman understands of the scope of his crime.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/24/2765903/trayvons-image-was-irrelevant.html#storylink=cpy

That is an opinion piece, just like us

 

[HiHater]

I thought that the probable cause affidavit was based on things known to the public. Maybe I missed something.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/probable_cause_affidavit.pdf

In a sense...but we don't have witness statements, the autopsy report, phone records, videos, etc.

We know what the state/police have told us about them, and that's it. That's all that guy has to go on as well. So we know the general story, but we don't know what evidence the state has to prove the story.

If that makes sense?
JMO MOO IMO

 

[Boytwnmom]

and one of my favorites, his good friend, Jeffrey Epstein, the pervert and sex trafficer IMO. He's a defense attorney so of course he will criticize the police-they're always wrong and his guy's always innocent and he has no problem trashing victims in the process. I'm not impressed by his opinion. He also advocates repeal of the Second Amendment which I find to be frankly, goofy and impossible and dangerous. As much as I don't want gun myself i also don't want the government deciding no one can have one.

high-school girls had been recruited to visit Epstein’s house. The 14-year-old was used to set up her 18-year-old go-between, Haley Robson. Robson had massaged him once and thereafter refused, but had agreed to procure girls, for $200 a head. “I’m like Heidi Fleiss,” she said. The police net went wider, to malls and community colleges, and Olive Garden restaurants and trailer parks, and the story was always the same. Skinny, beautiful young girls were approached by other girls, who said they could make $200 by massaging a wealthy man, naked. Robson said Epstein had told her the younger the better—which she said meant 18 to 20. The rules were simple. Tell him you’re 18. There might be some touching; you could draw the line. “The more you do, the more you are paid.” A couple of the girls said they went all the way into the experience—one told police she visited 50 times, another hundreds of times, both having sex with Epstein and Nada Marcinkova, a then-19-year-old beauty who Epstein told one of them was his “sex slave”; he’d purchased her from her family back in Yugoslavia.

Epstein’s friend Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard law professor, provided the police and the state attorney’s office with a dossier on a couple of the victims gleaned from their MySpace sites—showing alcohol and drug use and lewd comments. The police complained that private investigators were harassing the family of the 14-year-old girl before she was to appear before the grand jury in spring 2006. The police said that one girl had called another to say, “Those who help [Epstein] will be compensated and those who hurt him will be dealt with.”

http://nymag.com/news/features/41826/

He was only talking about the Probable Cause Affidavit. Please re-read the post. Your missing the part that says:

But it's worse than that. It's irresponsible and unethical, and not including the material that favors the defendant, unless it's not true. But if it's true, as we now have learned from other information, that the grass stains are in back of Zimmerman 's shirt, that there were bruises on his head, you must put that in an affidavit . The affidavit has to tell the truth , the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[Sensei]

So you don't think the jury should be able to see the picture? Do you think it is a fake picture?

I don't know if the picture is fake, I don't know if the picture is even a picture of GZ. I do know that that picture does NOT look like the picture of a wound that would be sustained by having your head hit against concrete even one time let alone repeatedly, and then having your head on grass and dirt after you managed to scooch your head off of the pavement.

If you hit someone's head repeatedly on concrete there is going to be smeared blood everywhere, don't believe me try hitting a puddle of water with your hand and see what happens. Once you scooch you head against concrete to get it off of the sidewalk, there would be more smears and grass and debris would adhere to the blood and it would not look like that, period.

So we see blood which appears to be pooling or welling, but we see no smears, and we see NO blood on his ears, on his neck or on his collar at all, no blood appears on his clothes either from the broken nose or from the head wounds...

I don't know if the Jury or anybody should see this picture, I just know that until they know exactly who took it and why and what their connection to GZ is and if they have any connection to LE, and where it's been since it was taken and if it has been altered, and if they can assure the Court that it actually is a picture of GZ that was actually taken that night, all those questions will have to be answered to the Court and SA's satisfaction before that photo becomes "evidence"...IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[HiHater]

So you don't think the jury should be able to see the picture? Do you think it is a fake picture?

What's in that picture can be established through other witnesses...The police officer says blood was coming from the back of his head, and EMTs should be able to testify to that and the clean up. The picture shows absolutely nothing, of value IMO. No one can honestly say where the injury begins/ends or how deep it is...IMO


I think the jury might question why pictures are being taken of George Zimmerman on a cell phone when Trayvon is laying on the ground and not yet pronounced dead...

The authenticity of the picture...I can't say it's real, and I can't say it's fake. If it's real, I think it creates a lot of problems...

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Great post! I think the theory of a "universal" gated condo mentality thing is just silly. And you're right, these basic units are everywhere. Most places I've seen in the Orlando area have a perimeter fence, empty guard shack, and that's about it. Since the real estate market burst, these places are really suffering from foreclosures, and it shows.

If someone wants to visit a condo with residents who have a "gated condo mentality", I suggest going to Boca. There are folks there who are happily paying 1 million and upwards per unit. At that price, they might have some expectation of excusivity.

There's a pretty big difference between real estate in Boca Raton and Sanford.
All "gated" condos are not the same. :wink:

You must not be reading all of my posts. I stated very clearly that gated communities are different. But in all of them, to some degree, there is a greater awareness of "outsiders" than there is in most public neighborhoods, and, in particular, a righteousness associated with this awareness. The fact is that all gated communities are private property (if the streets are public, then the streets cannot be closed to the public). That makes a huge difference in mentality and behavior that stems from the mentality. After all, anyone in a gated community who is not a resident or a guest, is trespassing on private property, which is a legal violation. This is why someone is much more likely to be considered "suspicious" simply because he is not recognized in a gated community than in a public neighborhood, and why someone is much more likely to call the police and follow someone who is unrecognized/suspicious in a gated community than in a public community, and why the police would even respond to a call like that when made in a gated community.

But that doesn't mean that all gated communities are the same, of course.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It tells me that at that moment GZ could not see TM, this was just before the two got physical. It tells me that GZ was behind the units at that time where he could not see if TM was close enough to hear where he lived. There are lots of hiding places in the back of the units with all of people's "stuff" and such. We know that TM left the road area and went behind the units to lose GZ jmo. There was a cat and mouse thing going on jmo. We don't know what happened in those last minutes between to two.

We know Zimmerman is walking or running or moving around. He is having a conversation on the phone with the dispatcher. No matter where someone was hiding they would not hear Zimmerman say all the following stuff he said and they would not be hearing the dispatcher. So what would hearing a person say an address mean to someone in hiding? Why would that mean anything? Things Zimmerman said bolded and for the person to hear all of that he would have to be following Zimmerman in hiding all the way. Seriously did he think Martin was over in the bushes with a pen and notebook writing everything down he said? Did he think Martin had some kind of special power to hear what the dispatcher was saying? This really sounds like some kind of serious paranoia to me. IMO


Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
GZ: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir, what is your name?
GZ: George, he ran...
Dispatcher: Alright George, what's your last name?
GZ: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: What's the phone number you're calling from?
GZ: Gives number
Dispatcher: Alright George, we do have them on the way, did you want to meet with the officers when they get out there?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you gonna meet with them at?
GZ: Umm, if they come in through the, uh, street past the club house, straight past the club house, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
GZ: Umm, I don't know, it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Do you live in the area?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7715220&postcount=41"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4[/ame]

 

[cityslick]

Officer Smith said he handcuffed the suspect then took out his 9mm from the waistband. There is no way he would have handcuffed him in the front then removed the gun.



http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

Was he wearing gloves when he removed the gun so that he won't get any fingerprints on it?

 

[Phoenixfla]

I don't see how this could be true, seeing as how the probable cause affidavit is based on details and evidence that he is not privy to?

Is not up to the court to read anything more into the probable cause affidavit other than what it contains. For the same reason, evidence that GZ was acting in self defense SHOULD HAVE been included.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

This already hasn't happened. Gilbreath already testified he had two lacerations on the back of his head.

Well, there ya go. Now they just have to show him the photo and ask him whether that's what it looked like. He says yes, and it's in [I believe, I'm not a lawyer]. Doesn't matter who took it. Chain of custody doesn't matter[I believe, I'm not a lawyer]. It could be a drawing, or an admitted PhotoShop image, and still admitted as evidence if the witness says it accurately depicts what it looked like that night[I believe, I'm not a lawyer]. After all, he can describe it words, but a picture is worth...

 

[cityslick]

In a sense...but we don't have witness statements, the autopsy report, phone records, videos, etc.

We know what the state/police have told us about them, and that's it. That's all that guy has to go on as well. So we know the general story, but we don't know what evidence the state has to prove the story.

If that makes sense?
JMO MOO IMO

I think the point Dershowitz was making was if GZ really had injuries, which the state has already admitted too since Gilbreath testified to that on the stand and it's also in the police report, that should of somehow been included in the affidavit and it was not, thus information was left out which harms the defendant.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I want the jury to see the picture because I really want to see the person who took it on the witness stand explaining why, when arriving the scene of the shooting he decided to photograph the back of someone's head instead of helping the victim.

It was obviously taken by someone that knew George and his wife. The "photographer" was told by George to call his wife. I would hope it wasn't someone in LE as that would create even more problems!

I honestly think it was a neighbor/friend, but I do find it odd that this "persons" first thought was to take a picture and George's first thought was to "call" whoever he was calling? There was a gravely injured person on the ground!! They were severely lacking any human decency!

MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

We know Zimmerman is walking or running or moving around. He is having a conversation on the phone with the dispatcher. No matter where someone was hiding they would not hear Zimmerman say all the following stuff he said and they would not be hearing the dispatcher. So what would hearing a person say an address mean to someone in hiding? Why would that mean anything? Things Zimmerman said bolded and for the person to hear all of that he would have to be following Zimmerman in hiding all the way. Seriously did he think Martin was over in the bushes with a pen and notebook writing everything down he said? Did he think Martin had some kind of special power to hear what the dispatcher was saying? This really sounds like some kind of serious paranoia to me. IMO


Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
GZ: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir, what is your name?
GZ: George, he ran...
Dispatcher: Alright George, what's your last name?
GZ: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: What's the phone number you're calling from?
GZ: Gives number
Dispatcher: Alright George, we do have them on the way, did you want to meet with the officers when they get out there?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you gonna meet with them at?
GZ: Umm, if they come in through the, uh, street past the club house, straight past the club house, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
GZ: Umm, I don't know, it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Do you live in the area?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

It is my opinion that he didn't know he would see him again and didn't want TM to know where he lived. I did notice that when GZ is talking to dispatch and he is out of the vehicle his voice gets to more of a Whisper or as Seinfeld said a"soft talker"lol I do think that GZ was pumped not seeing TM. jmo

 

[cityslick]

Well, there ya go. Now they just have to show him the photo and ask him whether that's what it looked like. He says yes, and it's in [I believe, I'm not a lawyer]. Doesn't matter who took it. Chain of custody doesn't matter[I believe, I'm not a lawyer]. It could be a drawing, or an admitted PhotoShop image, and still admitted as evidence if the witness says it accurately depicts what it looked like that night[I believe, I'm not a lawyer]. After all, he can describe it words, but a picture is worth...

That's why the EMT report will clear it up. Some think it's a fake if only because there is nothing else to collaborate it and there is nothing else (yet?) to collaborate it because we have not seen all the evidence from that night, which includes the EMT report and any photographs LE might have taken.

 

[HiHater]

I think the point Dershowitz was making was if GZ really had injuries, which the state has already admitted too since Gilbreath testified to that on the stand and it's also in the police report, that should of somehow been included in the affidavit and it was not, thus information was left out which harms the defendant.

I guess I understand. So, the fact that no other injuries are mentioned with regard to Trayvon, is that just as important?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Was he wearing gloves when he removed the gun so that he won't get any fingerprints on it?

We're talking about SPD here. I would not be surprised if that gun has been completely contaminated. Not because they did it on purpose (maybe?) but because they obviously lack in any real training.

MOO

 

[HiHater]

It is my opinion that he didn't know he would see him again and didn't want TM to know where he lived. I did notice that when GZ is talking to dispatch and he is out of the vehicle his voice gets to more of a Whisper or as Seinfeld said a"soft talker"lol I do think that GZ was pumped not seeing TM. jmo

I think that's evidence that it was him who was sneaking up on Trayvon...

 

[belle3]

ive been doing a lot of research into the other case in sanford, with the collison kid, ever since the commissioners meeting. A lot of the things there really opened my eyes a lil to the way spd handled the gz matter.
look at the comments section below this article. Notice the first comment. What a coincidence huh??? imo!
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...of-sanford-police-lieutenant-turns-himself-in