2009.05.01 Document Release: "FBI FORENSIC REPORT" ONLY!

[Valhall]

Is LE aware of this Myspace page? Or is it something discovered by WS'rs?

Yes and yes.

It's being discussed here...http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80667

(didn't want to derail the discussion since I was just answering a question posed).

 

[aafromaa]

I thought they may do an autopsy on the snake, considering it was found in caylee's general area.

Perhaps they thought there may be evidence in the snakes belly? Blood from Caylee?

*cringe*
I suppose they are leaving no stone left unturned.

My first thought on this - even back when they interviewed the guy who had the snake in his freezer - was what a waste of time and resources to autopsy a snake - the snake didn't bite her and then put her in trash bags & laundry bag and dump her... However, if there had been something about the snake that connected it to Caylee then it would have established that her body was there back in August when the snake was found and thrown out any chance that the defence had to muddy the waters by saying it was placed there after KC went back to jail for the last time (Sept - I think).

Now they will rely on the information obtained from the scene showing vegatation growth and such around the remains to show when Caylee was placed there. Still valid conclusions but much harder for a jury to understand than if Caylee's DNA had been connected to the snake - and the defense will have a little better luck trying to muddy the waters about those reports than they would have if there had been DNA. So, yes, no stone unturned - and it was worth checking into even though it didn't help.

The deputy who didn't follow through with the tips really goofed up back in August and a connection to the snake would have helped to overcome that issue but there will be oher ways for the prosecution to get the jury past that guy's incompetence.

 

[Sunshine52]

If Chlorophorm is a byproduct of decomp. then, wouldn't the air samples from the trunk mean that the chlorophorm in the air of the truck be a by product of decomposition??? And not necessarily someone using chlorophorm in the trunk?

Way back I researched the amount of chloroform that was in the air of the trunk and it was twice the normal amount...so even though chloroform is a natural byproduct of decomposition, this was a very large amount.

 

[RR0004]

I am concerned about the latest document dump and this forensic report. Yes, I believe Casey did get rid of Caylee, but can it be proved that she murdered her? So far with the evidence that I have seen, there is no physical evidence to link Casey to the actual murder. Partying, not knowing where Caylee was, and all sorts of evidence show neglect and that she didn't care wher Caylee was, but where is the evidence that Caylee was chloroformed, where is the evidence that she was placed in the trash bags by Casey, where is the evidence that she actually went through with killing her. Poor parenting doesn't equate to murder, and I was hoping to see actual linkage. Believe me, I do believe she did this, but to prove it is another story. The lack of evidence of a nanny won't prove that KC did this, it will just prove that she is a liar. What evidence do you believe will prove that she murdered Caylee?

So her not reporting her daughter missing for 31 days means what exactly? Evidence of decomposition in HER car means nothing? The dog(s) hitting in the backyard of HER home is insignificant? Her claims of a ZFG and connection to SG just a mere coincidence...not an alibi? We're not going with the one arm bandit, are we?

 

[marla]

So this leads me to think of two possibilities here:

1: They know she didn't murder her in cold blood but can't prove anything thing else either so they put the DP back on to assure her aquittal of murder in the 1st degree.

2: The are more interested in the conviction than in seeing justice served and hope, beyond hope that the DP will scare her into giving them what they can't get any other way, an easy win on a lesser charge. That is often the case. They make the person feel like they are playing Russian roulette with the bullet in the chamber somewhere and they have no choice, whether guilty or innocent.

The state hasn't released all their evidence yet ..
They put the DP back on the table for a reason ..

The state will prove, without a shadow of a doubt that Casey and Casey alone, murdered Caylee ..

 

[Valhall]

So her not reporting her daughter missing for 31 days means what exactly? Evidence of decomposition in HER car means nothing? The dog(s) hitting in the backyard of HER home is insignificant? Her claims of a ZFG and connection to SG just a mere coincidence...not an alibi? We're not going with the one arm bandit, are we?

RR - with all due respect and realizing you weren't talking to me - No one has said they mean NOTHING. All that has been said is that they don't prove MURDER. Not yet. If LE has forensics/evidence they haven't released yet that DOES, then these become further circumstantial evidence to support the big picture. But these things alone DO NOT prove murder. They prove a cover up and a death. There's a big difference.

 

[aafromaa]

Does this imply that there are further test results to come on the textile fibers found on the tape?

Page 5586: "Textile fibers of various types and colors were recovered from Q60, Q62 through Q64, and Q66. These fibers have been preserved on glass microscope slides for future comparison purposes."

Fibers from Casey's clothes perhaps? When you're cutting duct tape unles syou anchor the loose end it sometimes flaps around and could have connected with her clothes. Or perhaps fibers from the trunk, assuming she did not put Caylee in the bags immediately? Or fibers from Caylee's bedding?

keep in mind that these reports are dated months ago - I'm sure a lot of further testing has been done already and it just hasn't been in a doc dump yet

 

[OneLostGrl]

LOL...

Tom is the creator of Facebook. When you create an account. "Tom" becomes your first friend!

This always cracks me up.. when people first meet Tom. I know a few husband's that wanted to know who Tom was, as well.


That silly Tom.

LMAO! gotta love it!

 

[jon_burrows]

I am concerned about the latest document dump and this forensic report. Yes, I believe Casey did get rid of Caylee, but can it be proved that she murdered her? So far with the evidence that I have seen, there is no physical evidence to link Casey to the actual murder. Partying, not knowing where Caylee was, and all sorts of evidence show neglect and that she didn't care wher Caylee was, but where is the evidence that Caylee was chloroformed, where is the evidence that she was placed in the trash bags by Casey, where is the evidence that she actually went through with killing her. Poor parenting doesn't equate to murder, and I was hoping to see actual linkage. Believe me, I do believe she did this, but to prove it is another story. The lack of evidence of a nanny won't prove that KC did this, it will just prove that she is a liar. What evidence do you believe will prove that she murdered Caylee?

The totality of the evidence proves Casey killed Caylee beyond a reasonable doubt. I would go off topic if I listed all the evidence such as the 31 days/decomposing body in the trunk/lying/rare duct tape/laundry hamper and on and on. My point is if a juror needs a video tape of Casey doing the deed or a bloody knife with her fingerprints, it's simply not going to be there. I believe the latest document dump doesn't show anything except LE followed up on testing because of bits and pieces they found during the investigation (Casey getting Xanax from Annie, Chloroform searches, etc).

You asked where is the evidence she placed Caylee in the plastic bag? I think if you follow the evidence you can reasonabley conclude Casey put Caylee's body in those bags. The hamper was the same make/model of the one in their home. What are the chances? As for the chloroform, Casey didn't need it to kill a two year old. Just because she googled it doesn't mean that was how she killed her.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

Ok.. from the time i read this report something has stuck in my mind, so I went back and read past doc dumps to try to get it all straight . In the dump yesterday on the subject of shoes and the testing. The evidence numbers on the shoes they are talking about seems to be the pairs they took from her closet, in one of the searches done on the house after the remains were found.. the numbers match the number on this document...
http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18740657/detail.html
page 6
property form H - 60531
which was 22 pairs..

I havnt seen anywhere any reports on the test done on the shoes/boots from caseys car.. which are listed on this doc dump (an old one)
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18530363.pdf
page 21
Property form H-52025.

Kinda make me go Hmmmmmmmm.....

Now i could be wrong and mabe i just missed the test on those shoes / boots..
anyone else have any ideas???

 

[magnolia]

*Snipped*

On topic, the more discovery that is released the weaker this case becomes. The forensics clearly show no direct link between Casey and the murder and shows only the possibility that there was a HUMAN decomp event in the trunk of her car. I really still wonder where the entomology is. If it shows nothing, and/or they aren't going to use it then they don't have to hand it over through discovery. If it does, I don't believe they have the legal right to withhold it. Once the testing is done there is no further testing or investigation into those critters to do.

*Snipped*

AE, Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.

All the testing = negative results is helping the defense. I'm very disappointed the rumor - (dirt from the shoes matched the dirt from the site where the body was found) was not true.

When the death penalty was put back on the table, I thought surely they have something that directly links KC to the murder.

 

[trixi491]

So this leads me to think of two possibilities here:

1: They know she didn't murder her in cold blood but can't prove anything thing else either so they put the DP back on to assure her aquittal of murder in the 1st degree.

2: The are more interested in the conviction than in seeing justice served and hope, beyond hope that the DP will scare her into giving them what they can't get any other way, an easy win on a lesser charge. That is often the case. They make the person feel like they are playing Russian roulette with the bullet in the chamber somewhere and they have no choice, whether guilty or innocent.

Ok first of all there's no way # 1 is the case. I don't think I've ever heard of that being done before in such a case with such HUGE amounts of circumstantial evidence against a client who write little snotty marks about prosecutors on motions and laughs in court when her attorney picks fights with them. They should have no sympathy or pity for this girl and I don't see that they do. Besides, putting the DP on doesn't necessarily mean she'll get it or they can be assured she can be acquitted b/c no one wants to give her the death penalty. First the jury has to decide G or NG. If they decide G it is up to them to then decide what punishment to give her. They could find her guilty without giving her the DP..

 

[jandkmom]

So her not reporting her daughter missing for 31 days means what exactly? Evidence of decomposition in HER car means nothing? The dog(s) hitting in the backyard of HER home is insignificant? Her claims of a ZFG and connection to SG just a mere coincidence...not an alibi? We're not going with the one arm bandit, are we?

The 31 days is significant, but so far I haven't seen the reports that would seal the deal. Evidence of decomposition - did I miss a report that showed chemical composition of Caylee's body? Dog's hit in the backyard - what links it in the backyard to Caysey? I agree that the ZFG excuse is ridiculous, but the SA has to prove murder. I was hoping in the report there would be chloroform found, or drugs issued, or a fingerprint linking where Caylee was found to Casey, or dirt on a shoe, or dna some more science that would firm LE's theory. Believe me...I agree with you. Was just hoping for more.

 

[trixi491]

On topic, the more discovery that is released the weaker this case becomes. The forensics clearly show no direct link between Casey and the murder and shows only the possibility that there was a HUMAN decomp event in the trunk of her car. I really still wonder where the entomology is. If it shows nothing, and/or they aren't going to use it then they don't have to hand it over through discovery. If it does, I don't believe they have the legal right to withhold it. Once the testing is done there is no further testing or investigation into those critters to do.

That is not true, I believe they have to turn EVERY piece of discovery over to the defense regardless of it's use. The state chose to seek the DP 3 weeks ago. The prosecutors on this case are very respected and successful in FL and there was something that made them choose to seek this. They're not gonna put their rep on the line just to get a plea when they were able to convince a GJ she should be indicted on Murder 1 when there wasn't even a body! They have a strong enough case where they don't need to play games to make it easier on themselves. The evidence they got back that made them do this wouldn't have made it into this doc dump based on how long it takes them to put them together. The evidence just hasn't had the time to make it out into any doc dumps or they are holding it back for as long as they can (remember the trial most likely won't start until 1-2 years). They don't have to release discovery to make us or the rest of the public happy or satisfied, they have to release it in a time they think is best (but still makes it to the defense at a proper time as well). Even if (and that's a big IF) the trial starts in Oct, they would still have a couple months left until they would need to turn it over I believe. Remember, SP got the DP on way less circumstantial evidence (no smell of death in his car or anything found with the remains that links back to his house) and less questionable behavior (he reported Laci missing as soon as he could, he didn't wait 31 days and party in the meantime). He also didn't blame it on a specific person who has proven to be nonexistent. His lawyer stated "just because he is a cheater, doesn't make him a murderer." KC's defense will say the same about her being a liar. Problem is, if she is such a professional liar what is going to make the jury think she isn't lying about this.

 

[jandkmom]

The totality of the evidence proves Casey killed Caylee beyond a reasonable doubt. I would go off topic if I listed all the evidence such as the 31 days/decomposing body in the trunk/lying/rare duct tape/laundry hamper and on and on. My point is if a juror needs a video tape of Casey doing the deed or a bloody knife with her fingerprints, it's simply not going to be there. I believe the latest document dump doesn't show anything except LE followed up on testing because of bits and pieces they found during the investigation (Casey getting Xanax from Annie, Chloroform searches, etc).

You asked where is the evidence she placed Caylee in the plastic bag? I think if you follow the evidence you can reasonabley conclude Casey put Caylee's body in those bags. The hamper was the same make/model of the one in their home. What are the chances? As for the chloroform, Casey didn't need it to kill a two year old. Just because she googled it doesn't mean that was how she killed her.

Thanks. I do believe that KC murdered Caylee. I believe that the hamper and duct tape connects back to the Anthony household. I was just hoping for more and still hoping that more will be released. I guess I was hoping that something would show up that would actually link her to where Caylee's body was discarded to show the lack of concern that was given to her after she passed away. Caylee deserves the truth to be told, and I hope that something comes out that will prove that Casey discarded her and never gave her another thought. I think that would seal the deal with a jury.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I think we may all be experiencing the CSI Effect. Since most of us have followed this case and analyzed all the discovery so closely we are having trouble seeing the big picture - the totality of the evidence. Most of us probably read true crime stories and watch Investigation Discovery too. The CSI Effect suggests that the television program and its spin-offs, which wildy exaggerate and glorify forensic science, affect the public, and in turn affect trials either by (a) burdening the prosecution by creating greater expectations about forensic science than can be delivered or (b) burden the defense by creating exaggerated faith in the capabilities and reliability of the forensic sciences. I think we are doing (a) above. Here's the link to this study: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=967706

The prosecution and defense will put a lot of care into picking a jury. I'm sure some of the voir dire questions will be "Do you watch CSI or shows like it?" and "Can you find someone guilty without having forensic evidence, like DNA and fingerprints?" and "Will you require definitive scientific evidence in order to convict the defendent?"

I truly have faith that once a jury hears the prosecution lay everything out in chronological order and explain the forensic science in a layperson's terms, they will find Casey guilty.

 

[jai-yen]

I am concerned about the latest document dump and this forensic report. Yes, I believe Casey did get rid of Caylee, but can it be proved that she murdered her? So far with the evidence that I have seen, there is no physical evidence to link Casey to the actual murder. Partying, not knowing where Caylee was, and all sorts of evidence show neglect and that she didn't care wher Caylee was, but where is the evidence that Caylee was chloroformed, where is the evidence that she was placed in the trash bags by Casey, where is the evidence that she actually went through with killing her. Poor parenting doesn't equate to murder, and I was hoping to see actual linkage. Believe me, I do believe she did this, but to prove it is another story. The lack of evidence of a nanny won't prove that KC did this, it will just prove that she is a liar. What evidence do you believe will prove that she murdered Caylee?

It's all circumstantial at this point... but it's still compelling. These homicide investigators and ADAs are pretty darned smart and they'll figure a way around it. If Casey wore gloves and threw the shoes away - which anyone who has even watched a couple of episodes of CSI would know to do - they'll manage to show that somehow through a daisy chain of events.

It's a bad idea to become too dependent on scientific evidence. In the past, prosecutors proved murders all the time without it. "Proof" comes in many forms.

Anyone with a reasonable brain can figure out how to avoid leaving scientific evidence around.


~*

 

[treeseeker]

I personally think media hype actually caused some of these tests, putting LE between the rock and hard place. 31 days had likely passed before anyone even looked at the car, and 6 months before they found a crime scene to compare anything to. Those shoes had been in the Anthony home, unsecured, for six months. Add in that it was so close to Casey's home, IMO dirt and plant material aren't likely to be that telling.

If LE hadn't done the testing, the defense would have made an issue of it. Since they did and got negative results, again the defense will make an issue of it. Rock and hard spot. But we can appreciate their thoroughness.

 

[Sassy Frog]

Having no evidence show up on the 22 pairs of shoes doesn't bother me. Who knows how many shoes she owned? She undoubtedly pitched the "guilty" shoes. She was home on bail long enough to pitch a lot of stuff. Also most of the shoes were flip-flops, she wasn't likely to wear flip-flops into a snake infested swamp area. At the very least she would have worn sneakers. And they could have even been tossed into the washer to get rid of any evidence. I don't think she wore the boots that were in the car, those were dress boots... her "dancing" boots.

 

[FORDANIEL]

I think others have alluded to this,however disappointing the doc dump may be,I am wondering if the evidence is not coming out in "a backwards sort of way." For example we know that CA,LA, and GA's prints were not found on the duct tape,however do we know that KC's were not? We know that soil samples were not found on the shoes taken from the house,but we don't know if soil samples were found on the boots in the car,or the carpeting of the car.Perhaps in releasing what ISN"T there,there are still real bombshells yet to come,otherwise I am scratching my head and saying "what are the SA possibly thinking?' There has to be a trump card somewhere.I sure hope for Caylee's sake,that by putting the DP back on the table that they were not trying to bluff their way into a conviction.