2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Torn2pieces said:
I'm not so sure it's happening this month or not - found this older article

Snip: A hearing scheduled for January was postponed until the spring. The court then set aside nine hours for a March 31 hearing, but that hearing has been delayed for another three months, with no new date agreed to as of yet, according to the judge's clerk.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/03/horman_divorce_hearing_schedul_1.html
Click to expand...

That article is from March 2011, so it's very out of date. The latest info that's been posted is from November 2011. It says this March. I believe gwenabob has OJIN access, so maybe she can see something there.

It's been 20 months since Terri has seen her daughter. I still think that says a whole lot.
 
Chili Fries said:
That article is from March 2011, so it's very out of date. The latest info that's been posted is from November 2011. It says this March. I believe gwenabob has OJIN access, so maybe she can see something there.

It's been 20 months since Terri has seen her daughter. I still think that says a whole lot.
Click to expand...




BBM...


Yes it does!

Kiara has transitioned from being a toddler into being a preschooler. Her mother chose to miss that entire period in her daughter's life. TMH is allowing her child to grow up without her, and without even putting up a real fight. There must be some pretty damning evidence against TMH somewhere, because she is not willing to fight for an opportunity to parent her daughter.

TMH is saving herself, and apparently to her, that little girl is just collateral damage.
 
EllaMae said:
BBM...


Yes it does!

Kiara has transitioned from being a toddler into being a preschooler. Her mother chose to miss that entire period in her daughter's life. TMH is allowing her child to grow up without her, and without even putting up a real fight. There must be some pretty damning evidence against TMH somewhere, because she is not willing to fight for an opportunity to parent her daughter.

TMH is saving herself, and apparently to her, that little girl is just collateral damage.
Click to expand...

My perspective exactly. Thank you for your post.
 
I'm not willing to "vote" guilty based on not seeing her child. That is not evidence. Also, would we for sure know if she had seen the child at all in the past two years? JMO
 
TMH has no contact with Kiara since Kaine left and got the RO as far as I know. I think the RO is still in effect. She can't go near them without risking arrest.

An innocent mother who loves her baby would never sit still and allow a separation for that long without putting up a fight. The judge could not keep a mother and child separated unless he felt it was in the child's best interest, and unless he had legal grounds to do so.

It does mean a lot that TMH is not doing that. She is keeping quiet, and missing out on raising her child because she can't fight it without revealing something that damaging she wants to keep out of court. That's why her criminal defense attorney has taken the lead in her case. The civil case and a possible criminal case are intertwined. His job is to try and keep TMH from risking exposure to criminal charges during the civil case. He's there for a reason....she needs a criminal lawyer. It's not affairs and an alcohol problem that needs to be kept out of court.

TMH is guilty of something, and her inaction on behalf of her relationship with her daughter is evidence of her guilt about something....and IMHO that something is actually her role in Kyron's disapperance.
 
EllaMae said:
TMH has no contact with Kiara since Kaine left and got the RO as far as I know. I think the RO is still in effect. She can't go near them without risking arrest.

An innocent mother who loves her baby would never sit still and allow a separation for that long without putting up a fight. The judge could not keep a mother and child separated unless he felt it was in the child's best interest, and unless he had legal grounds to do so.

It does mean a lot that TMH is not doing that. She is keeping quiet, and missing out on raising her child because she can't fight it without revealing something that damaging she wants to keep out of court. That's why her criminal defense attorney has taken the lead in her case. The civil case and a possible criminal case are intertwined. His job is to try and keep TMH from risking exposure to criminal charges during the civil case. He's there for a reason....she needs a criminal lawyer. It's not affairs and an alcohol problem that needs to be kept out of court.

TMH is guilty of something, and her inaction on behalf of her relationship with her daughter is evidence of her guilt about something....and IMHO that something is actually her role in Kyron's disapperance.
Click to expand...

An innocent mother most certainly would, if she didn't want to end up wrongly in jail. The firm I worked for represented a father who went through a bitter divorce. Mom kept bringing up molestation charges and shopping for doctors. Visitation suspended for two years. Two years, and he did not see his daughter - because the wrong words could have sunk him. It took two years to get the criminal investigation worked out, and that ended up being quicker than we had expected because Mom had the young daughter brainwashed. Two years, where he could do nothing.

On its face, it looks bad, but what happens in domestic court can significantly hurt someone in criminal court. It's not fair to judge someone for protecting themselves. It's easy to armchair quarterback and say what we would do if we were in that situation - but until you're facing jail, you have no idea.
 
I just do not agree with you at all.

The case you are using is not all that similar. It's actually closer to that case in Georgia where the teacher was accused of molesting children, including her own,and her bitter ex-husband was involved in the accusations. She lost custody of her children,she lost her home, and she lost her teaching career. But she did not keep quiet.
She protested her innocence loudly,and publicly, and fought to see her children, although she was not successful. She did not stay hidden and mute, even though she faced serious jail time. Ultimately she was declared innocent by a jury.
Speaking out did not harm her at all. It actually helped her. She was outraged by the accusations because she really was innocent, and she was not going down without a fight. She also knew the stakes were high, and so did her legal team. IIRC, she was offered a plea deal, and turned it down because she knew she was innocent.

I did say the civil case and the criminal case were intertwined, so I do realize and comprehend that the civil case can hurt the criminal case. That's exactly why TMH has a high powered defense attorney running the show. She does face serious criminal charges if she testifies in the civil case, and her attorneys have knowledge of some of the evidence against her. They know she's no innocent lily white housewife. That's why they have her hidden away, so that she can't damage her legal standing any more than she already has.
Actually,not many, outside of a few internet posters, is really saying she's innocent, or expressing outrage about her situation....and her own lawyer called her a suspect. I find that interesting.

It is quite fair to reach a conclusion about TMH based on her behavior and actions. Justice for Kyron is about judging someone as the guilty party, and seeking restitution.That's why we are here on this forum. We are here to voice our opinions, and to stand up for an innocent child. You might have a different opinion than I do, but that doesn't make mine unfair.

She exudes guilt, and she is hiding the truth about Kyron. Letting almost 2 years go by without a fight to see her child tells me that she is guilty of something, and can't let the civil case expose her.

But her lack of effort concerning Kiara is just one aspect of the case that makes me think she's guilty. There are others, and it's putting together all the pieces that make the whole picture look pretty ugly.
There's a reason Tony was suspicious right off the bat. There's a reason for the RO. There's a reason TMH has no real alibi. There are those hate-filled emails, and the sexting.
Nothing TMH has done points to her innocence. She was the last person to see Kyron, and in most cases....the last person to see a missing child is the one who caused the child to disappear.
I have watched that press conference video from the beginning of the case, and she has guilt written all over her face. Her demeanor is that of a guilty person. She can't cover up what she's feeling, and Desiree's gut instinct is telling her that TMH harmed Kyron. It's all right there in that video. Even Kaine is conflicted about TMH, and you can see that too. The body language of everyone in the video tells the story of who harmed Kyron, and it is fascinating to watch. Suspicions about TMH is the huge white elephant in the room that no one can talk about at that point, but it's obvious how they all feel, and it's obvious she is unsuccessfully pretending to care about Kyron.
 
EllaMae said:
I just do not agree with you at all.

snipped by me

But her lack of effort concerning <baby K> is just one aspect of the case that makes me think she's guilty. There are others, and it's putting together all the pieces that make the whole picture look pretty ugly.
There's a reason Tony was suspicious right off the bat. There's a reason for the RO. There's a reason TMH has no real alibi. There are those hate-filled emails, and the sexting.
Nothing TMH has done points to her innocence. She was the last person to see Kyron, and in most cases....the last person to see a missing child is the one who caused the child to disappear.
I have watched that press conference video from the beginning of the case, and she has guilt written all over her face. Her demeanor is that of a guilty person. She can't cover up what she's feeling, and Desiree's gut instinct is telling her that TMH harmed Kyron. It's all right there in that video. Even Kaine is conflicted about TMH, and you can see that too. The body language of everyone in the video tells the story of who harmed Kyron, and it is fascinating to watch. Suspicions about TMH is the huge white elephant in the room that no one can talk about at that point, but it's obvious how they all feel, and it's obvious she is unsuccessfully pretending to care about Kyron.
Click to expand...

Excellent post! I agree with you 100% on this. (you might want to redact the baby's name however.)
 
EllaMae said:
TMH has no contact with Kiara since Kaine left and got the RO as far as I know. I think the RO is still in effect. She can't go near them without risking arrest.

An innocent mother who loves her baby would never sit still and allow a separation for that long without putting up a fight. The judge could not keep a mother and child separated unless he felt it was in the child's best interest, and unless he had legal grounds to do so.

It does mean a lot that TMH is not doing that. She is keeping quiet, and missing out on raising her child because she can't fight it without revealing something that damaging she wants to keep out of court. That's why her criminal defense attorney has taken the lead in her case. The civil case and a possible criminal case are intertwined. His job is to try and keep TMH from risking exposure to criminal charges during the civil case. He's there for a reason....she needs a criminal lawyer. It's not affairs and an alcohol problem that needs to be kept out of court.

TMH is guilty of something, and her inaction on behalf of her relationship with her daughter is evidence of her guilt about something....and IMHO that something is actually her role in Kyron's disapperance.
Click to expand...

It comes back around to her CHOOSING herself...over her own child. Which,IMO,is something a mother just does NOT do.:maddening:
 
No good criminal defense attorney would advise their client to protest loudly or speak out, even if they truly believed them to be innocent. Silence is your best defense. Even if, in some cases, protesting loudly and often didn't harm a person's case -that does not mean the same would hold true for everyone else. It is so easy to twist another's words, to taint the jury pool, to make a statement that can be used against you - it is too high a risk.
 
AnaTeresa said:
No good criminal defense attorney would advise their client to protest loudly or speak out, even if they truly believed them to be innocent. Silence is your best defense. Even if, in some cases, protesting loudly and often didn't harm a person's case -that does not mean the same would hold true for everyone else. It is so easy to twist another's words, to taint the jury pool, to make a statement that can be used against you - it is too high a risk.
Click to expand...


It's more than just keeping quiet. TMH has completely removed herself from her child's life, and her lawyers are not even fighting for her parental rights. There is a reason for all that. TMH has done something, and there is some evidence somewhere that causes them to take that position.
 
We have no way of knowing what is going on between the various lawyers in this case.
 
EllaMae said:
It's more than just keeping quiet. TMH has completely removed herself from her child's life, and her lawyers are not even fighting for her parental rights. There is a reason for all that. TMH has done something, and there is some evidence somewhere that causes them to take that position.
Click to expand...

They cannot fight for her parental rights if in doing so would harm her criminal case. She's in a terrible state of limbo with this investigation hanging over her. She could very easily have done nothing to Kyron but still be stuck in this position because of the nature of the questioning that occurs in domestic cases. This is something that I have seen more than once at my job.

I'm a fence sitter on this case but it really irks me to see people assume that because TH is not "fighting" to see her child, that she does not care or as evidence that she is guilty. These things are not black and white - there are many shades of gray.
 
AnaTeresa said:
They cannot fight for her parental rights if in doing so would harm her criminal case. She's in a terrible state of limbo with this investigation hanging over her. She could very easily have done nothing to Kyron but still be stuck in this position because of the nature of the questioning that occurs in domestic cases. This is something that I have seen more than once at my job.

I'm a fence sitter on this case but it really irks me to see people assume that because TH is not "fighting" to see her child, that she does not care or as evidence that she is guilty. These things are not black and white - there are many shades of gray.
Click to expand...

I'm still not so sure.

I definitely defer to the attorneys on legal matters and I think this is the most interesting reply post I've seen on this issue in this case (it's between two attorneys, I'm pretty sure desquire is a criminal defense attorney and I know that gitana1 is a family law attorney in California):

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5666666&postcount=499"]http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5666666&postcount=499[/ame]


Here is the link to that thread:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5666666&highlight=client#post5666666


Gitana has frequently posted the opinion that Terri's legal strategy implies guilt and that has definitely swayed my opinion toward a greater probability of Terri being responsible for Kyron's disappearance.

One thing I do know as a legal layperson who has had much experience with attorneys is...attorneys work for their clients. The client has the final say. I know it's tough to put yourself in the situation of someone who has felt the heat of being considered suspect #1 in a murder investigation, but...if I were innocent I do think I'd have told my attorney a long time ago that seeing my daughter is priority #1, and that I'd be willing to deal with whatever ramifications came from going to civil court to make that happen.
 
Chili Fries said:
I'm still not so sure.

I definitely defer to the attorneys on legal matters and I think this is the most interesting reply post I've seen on this issue in this case (it's between two attorneys, I'm pretty sure desquire is a criminal defense attorney and I know that gitana1 is a family law attorney in California):

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5666666&postcount=499


Here is the link to that thread:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5666666&highlight=client#post5666666


Gitana has frequently posted the opinion that Terri's legal strategy implies guilt and that has definitely swayed my opinion toward a greater probability of Terri being responsible for Kyron's disappearance.

One thing I do know as a legal layperson who has had much experience with attorneys is...attorneys work for their clients. The client has the final say. I know it's tough to put yourself in the situation of someone who has felt the heat of being considered suspect #1 in a murder investigation, but...if I were innocent I do think I'd have told my attorney a long time ago that seeing my daughter is priority #1, and that I'd be willing to deal with whatever ramifications came from going to civil court to make that happen.
Click to expand...

BBM. That is true. It depends on the person. Some people never question their attorneys and others fight the attorney on everything. The attorneys I work for have taken cases to trial because a client has pushed and other times taken deals because they trust the attorney. A lot can really play a part in that - the client's personality, the attorney's, the rapport.

One attorney in my office, the senior attorney, is very hard line defendants do not testify, very rarely speaks to the media, very serious about preserving the defendant's rights, etc. We've had similar cases involving criminal and domestic matters where clients have gone a long time without seeing their kids because he's working behind the scenes on the criminal case. In TH's situation, he'd be very strongly opposed to acting in any other way.

Other attorneys? They like soft media interviews and things like that, and would probably go ahead with it, like gitana posted. They don't emphasize so strongly the criminal case above all else. It's not a bad strategy necessarily. Plus, it could be that TH's attorneys are disagreeing amongst themselves on this. I've seen that too, particularly when you're handling something that involves multiple attorneys in different specialties. They can butt heads over the best way to proceed so nothing gets done.

It could really go either way, I think. I just hate the assumption that silence is guilt, or that legal representation is guilt, that people tend to jump to very quickly.
 
pdx said:
The story you've got linked is... I can't believe this myself... referring to *last* March 31.
The most current story is the one linked in the first post of this thread that just says 'late March'.


Oh Kyron, what happened?
Click to expand...

So what happened w/the divorce case? It doesn't get much more "late March" than this. Was it postponed again?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 168 more.
Total: 3,627 (members: 169, guests: 3,458)

Online statistics

Members online
169
Guests online
3,458
Total visitors
3,627
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,514
Messages
17,970,170
Members
228,791
Latest member
fesmike
Back
Top