2010.11.30 DNA Due Back in 45 Days

[LiveLaughLuv]

I believe LambChop and Jolyanna just made me feel better...I know in my heart who is ultimately responsible for Caylee's demise. I just wouldn't put it past ICA to have someone, anyone go find where she put Caylee and plant some evidence. Her taking a shower at JG's made me think she did something..her telling her parents/LA she didn't trust JG made me feel she might have set him up to take a fall. He did cooperate with LE, took LDT, something not even the Anthony family would submit to, so it just had me thinking and glad you all just settled my jitters...Thank you much...JMHO

Peace be with us as this case goes to trial...

Justice for Caylee

 

[LambChop]

Finding DNA from anyone of the A's would PROVE the bag came from their home. Which is not what defense might want to hear. jmo

 

[Jolynna]

What makes more sense? Some mysterious person who leaves no trace, never been heard of and no viable explanation for.....OR, Mom weaves story of someone who does not exist taking the baby and will not cooperate with LE to help them find the child and all other circumstancial evidence points directly at Mom. Me thinks we worry too much. jmo

Ingmar Guandique was found guilty of killing Chandra Levy DESPITE another man's DNA on Levy's tights.

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2010/11/prosecutors_had_little_evidenc.html

I think that the prosecutors going after Casey have a LOT more to work with than the government did in Guanique's case.

 

[countzero]

ANY foreign DNA found on the bag or the shorts would most likely come from when the bag was found or from contamination during collection, storage or testing. DNA from before or during Caylee's murder would be extremely degraded after 6 months in the swamp and being wrapped in plastic for days in a car trunk. Being degraded makes DNA susceptible to contamination. Contamination is a REAL problem with ultra-sensitive low touch dna testing.

However, despite finding unknown male DNA on Chandra Levy's tights and despite finding NO DNA evidence implicating Ingmar Guandique (the defendant on trial), Guandique was convicted. And that is despite no eyewitnesses, no confession or any forensics pointing to Guandique. (http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2010/11/prosecutors_had_little_evidenc.html) The prosecutors said that the mystery man's DNA found on Levy's tights probably came from a lab technician although they produced NO lab technician.

Anyway, I am pointing out the Levy case as an example of a high profile case where contamination in the lab was blamed for mystery DNA. Mystery DNA from a lab technician has ALREADY shown up on the duct tape evidence.

I do not think anybody planted anything. I think the defense is fishing and hoping. As things stand everyone already believes the laundry bag came from the Anthony house...George and Cindy admitted there used to be one like it in Caylee's room that held balls; now the balls are loose in an Anthony shed; and the ball bag is missing. Finding mystery DNA and making the state wriggle and claim lab contamination might improve Casey's position.

Also noted, is the defendant made numerous statements to his cell mates that he was involved in a killing in that same area. He was also connected to several rapes in that area in the same time period and one of his victims testified.

I thought about ICA when the guilty announcement was made. Like you Jolynna, the connection between these two cases is similar somewhat. Lack of DNA evidence, cell mate talk, and all. I think JB will take the same road the defendants attorneys did and challenge the lack of forensic evidence. And with ICA, there is so much more connecting the Anthony's to the evidence found with Caylee.

 

[LambChop]

I believe LambChop and Jolyanna just made me feel better...I know in my heart who is ultimately responsible for Caylee's demise. I just wouldn't put it past ICA to have someone, anyone go find where she put Caylee and plant some evidence. Her taking a shower at JG's made me think she did something..her telling her parents/LA she didn't trust JG made me feel she might have set him up to take a fall. He did cooperate with LE, took LDT, something not even the Anthony family would submit to, so it just had me thinking and glad you all just settled my jitters...Thank you much...JMHO

Peace be with us as this case goes to trial...

Justice for Caylee

Don't forget Jesse was often in the house. Played with Caylee, babysat her and was in the backyard with the playhouse. He admits it. So his DNA on the bag proves nothing. jmo

 

[impatientredhead]

Finding DNA from anyone of the A's would PROVE the bag came from their home. Which is not what defense might want to hear. jmo

I think they can prove the bag and tape came from the house, or show pretty overwhelming that the odds of those two items from the same lot coming from another location are 1 in a billion. They are going to have to make the SODDI someone that had intimate access to the house.

I am still not convinced George or Cindy aren't going in front of the bus. If I was defending my life and had to pick the person I thought I was most likely to convince a jury was shady and as implicated by the evidence as I was it would be one of those two.

 

[Jolynna]

Finding DNA from anyone of the A's would PROVE the bag came from their home. Which is not what defense might want to hear. jmo

After George's and Cindy's state depositions I think most jurors already will believe the bag is the one that "used to be" in Caylee's room--the one that is now missing. More proof that it is "that" bag would seal a deal that is pretty much sealed. It would hurt, but as Casey is now mortally wounded, be just another sting.

Casey's defense is desperate for an AHA moment they can use to stop some of the momentum against Casey. If they could say that the holy grail of 'science' supports Casey's innocence without having to flat-out 100% lie that would be a miracle for Casey.

 

[LambChop]

We all know the laundry bag came from the house, and the blanket and the duct tape because we can all think logically. There's no horse in the race for us. Same with the jury they will be able to see things presented one right after another and all the puzzle pieces will fit together. What hurts KC is that there is not one provable statement that she has made about her daughter. What also hurts is that she waited until the the very last minute of her fraud trial to admit her guilt even though the evidence was overwhelming. She has a pattern in her life of doing so. jmo

 

[faefrost]

It's a laundry bag. It comes in contact with everything and everyone that members of that household have come in contact with via their clothes. Foreign DNA on it is at best a defense red herring. It would really mean almost as little as finding KC and Caylee's DNA in the car.

Now finding some strangers DNA on the shorts may give them a little wiggle room. But probably not enough to avoid the obvious conclusions or a conviction.

 

[mysteriew]

You are right, because RK found Caylee's remains, he could have looked in the bag and touched. But, RK was very definitive in his LE interview. He insisted that he didn't "touch" anything at the remains scene.OCSO pressed him pretty hard too. And RK said that he ONLY used his worker's stick to poke. He specifically said he didn't touch anything.

So, there is opportunity for Casey's defense should RK have not been forthcoming about what he did when he found Caylee's remains.

ICA & George & Cindy were Caylee's caretakers, you'd expect them to dress her, change her diapers, carry and touch the bag that held Caylee's toys. Finding their DNA on Caylee's pants or the ball/laundry bag would not mean anything sinister. After 6 months in the swamp and being wrapped in plastic for days in the trunk of Casey's car their DNA would be degraded and easily contaminated.

Anybody who touched the shorts and bag just before or while they were collected could contaminate them. We know traces of a lab worker's DNA was picked up during less sensitive testing of the duct tape.

I think further DNA testing is a smart move by the defense. It makes it look like ICA is looking for the "real killer" and like she isn't afraid of scientific results. There is no risk. You'd expect to find the mother's DNA on her toddler's clothes or toy bag. Any foreign DNA is an opportunity to point the finger at SOD and also to scream about LE and lab sloppiness (they can't be trusted, they make mistakes...blah, blah, blah).


Articles on the risk of Touch DNA contamination:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iuatld/ijtld/1998/00000002/00000005/art00012

http://columbiauniversity.us/cu/biology/faculty-data/martin-chalfie/resources/nature-2002.pdf

RK interview (he insists he didn't touch anything except with his stick on page 4):

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4782210/Casey-Anthony--Roy-Kronk-Interview-Transcript-released-March-6

Yeah I can just hear the closing arguments now. All about how KC begged the LE to handle her missing child's case a certain way, and how even before Caylee's remains were found that LE was looking at KC as a suspect when there was no evidence that KC had harmed her child. And when Caylee was found, there was still no evidence against her. But LE was so fixated on making KC the suspect that the state did not even test for evidence that someone else could be involved.

I just love it when the defense tries to spin the truth and sometimes even outright lies to the jury in closings. They never seem to get that sometimes they are too transparent and they lose any credibity with the jury that they might have had. I think JB will make this error in his closing.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Don't forget Jesse was often in the house. Played with Caylee, babysat her and was in the backyard with the playhouse. He admits it. So his DNA on the bag proves nothing. jmo

I've always thought the suspicious 'shower visit' to Jesse's was for the purpose of collecting some DNA or incriminating evidence to put with Caylee. We've seen abundant examples of how CA/GA will try to blame an innocent person, so I have no doubt ICA thinks the same ..

 

[Jolynna]

It's a laundry bag. It comes in contact with everything and everyone that members of that household have come in contact with via their clothes. Foreign DNA on it is at best a defense red herring. It would really mean almost as little as finding KC and Caylee's DNA in the car.

Now finding some strangers DNA on the shorts may give them a little wiggle room. But probably not enough to avoid the obvious conclusions or a conviction.

The laundry bag wasn't used for laundry. According to Cindy's and George's state depositions the bag was in Caylee's room and full of balls. (Technically George and Cindy said the bag LOOKS exactly like the bag that used to be in Caylee's room) However I don't think Casey's defense is worried about any DNA showing up from prior to the time Caylee's remains were dumped on Suburban.

DNA degrades. Caylee's remains were swathed in plastic and baked in a hot trunk. After that, the remains went through a hurricane and 6 months in a moldy, bacteria-ridden swamp. Duct tape that was over Caylee's face and that had been handled by the killer had NO DNA except for a lab technician's. I think that Casey's defense is hoping for something similar to turn up under their more extensive testing. Or maybe they'll really get lucky and RK got curious and "did" touch to see what was in the bag.

Should Casey's DNA turn up on the bag or shorts, she won't be worse off. You'd expect a mom to dress her toddler. George and Cindy already made it pretty clear in their depositions that the bag came from Caylee's room.

Finding another man's DNA on Chandra Levy's tights didn't get the man accused of killing Levy off. The case against Casey in MUCH stronger. But Casey's defense has to put up some kind of defense. "Science" does have a respectable ring and just maybe finding somebody else's dna might give jurors that want Casey not to be guilty something to hang their hats on. If nothing else, the possibility of debating the validity of top notch state-of-the-art science vs contamination probably sounds more appealing to Casey's defense than explaining the "31 days".

 

[seagull65]

other: DNA or other useful evidence could be there. The items were not submerged long (if they were submerged). The location was sheltered behind that thick curtain of vines etc, and also, RK said in his first call that the remains were under a white board that was leaning on the log or hanging over it. So, luckily, the items may have been pretty sheltered. You never know, DNA or fiber evidence or something could remain on them.

 

[LambChop]

other: DNA or other useful evidence could be there. The items were not submerged long (if they were submerged). The location was sheltered behind that thick curtain of vines etc, and also, RK said in his first call that the remains were under a white board that was leaning on the log or hanging over it. So, luckily, the items may have been pretty sheltered. You never know, DNA or fiber evidence or something could remain on them.

If this were true how would anyone explain the complete absence of Caylee's DNA?

 

[Leila]

I believe LambChop and Jolyanna just made me feel better...I know in my heart who is ultimately responsible for Caylee's demise. I just wouldn't put it past ICA to have someone, anyone go find where she put Caylee and plant some evidence. Her taking a shower at JG's made me think she did something..her telling her parents/LA she didn't trust JG made me feel she might have set him up to take a fall. He did cooperate with LE, took LDT, something not even the Anthony family would submit to, so it just had me thinking and glad you all just settled my jitters...Thank you much...JMHO

Peace be with us as this case goes to trial...

Justice for Caylee

I too thought of Casey going to JG's to take a shower, and her telling her parents she didn't trust him. The possibility exists of Casey planting DNA evidence or having someone else do it. But, that said, I'm not so sure Casey is smart enough to have thought of that.

 

[Leila]

I think they can prove the bag and tape came from the house, or show pretty overwhelming that the odds of those two items from the same lot coming from another location are 1 in a billion. They are going to have to make the SODDI someone that had intimate access to the house.

I am still not convinced George or Cindy aren't going in front of the bus. If I was defending my life and had to pick the person I thought I was most likely to convince a jury was shady and as implicated by the evidence as I was it would be one of those two.

I think that at some point, both George and Cindy will be in front of that bus. If not the case in chief, then in the penalty phase, or after the trial is done and over.

 

[countzero]

It's a toss up between CA or GA. CA for her past horrid behaviors or GA for the same plus his testimony before the grand jury. I'd be happy with both holding hands while the bus is revving it's engines. They both have their blinders up against seeing the truth and the bus. Which will come first to hit them??? My vote .... the bus. It won't save ICA either way. But in ICAs mind, it will make her sentence worth it. Watching them suffer in their own hell. The last thing ICA wants is CA to play martyr.

Betcha CA is chewing the bullet trying to come up with a new reason why the laundry bag doesn't match the ones similar to the A compound. Or the shirt and blanket Caylee was found in didn't come from there either. Her mind is spinning new explanations for JB.

 

[Jolynna]

other: DNA or other useful evidence could be there. The items were not submerged long (if they were submerged). The location was sheltered behind that thick curtain of vines etc, and also, RK said in his first call that the remains were under a white board that was leaning on the log or hanging over it. So, luckily, the items may have been pretty sheltered. You never know, DNA or fiber evidence or something could remain on them.

The bag and shorts were baked in plastic bags in a car trunk. They were exposed to the elements in a moldy, bacteria-ridden, non-sterile swamp for 6 months. They were in a hurricane and several rainstorms. None of Caylee's DNA survived on duct tape which should have picked up skin cells. There WERE traces of lab technician DNA.

Chandra Levy's remains were also out and exposed to the point where the DNA pulled up from touch DNA testing was most likely contamination from a lab. At least that is what the prosecutors of that case got that trial's jurors to believe.

If the defense thought that there was NO chance of contamination or RK touching somemthing and that only the real killer's DNA would be all over the bag I don't believe they'd have asked for the more sensitive testing.

 

[krisskross]

If no Anthony dna is found Baez can use it to further strengthen his mantra that there is no physical evidence..... e.g. dna, fingerprints or fibres that tie his client to the remains. He can also spin it by telling the jury how his totally innocent client demanded they do this testing. If he doesn't like the results he can bury them.

He can say or do any number of things...........but the rare duct tape found on both Caylee and George's gas can, coupled with Cindy's fondness for Whitney laundry bags, imo won't be lost on the jury.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

The bag and shorts were baked in plastic bags in a car trunk. They were exposed to the elements in a moldy, bacteria-ridden, non-sterile swamp for 6 months. They were in a hurricane and several rainstorms. None of Caylee's DNA survived on duct tape which should have picked up skin cells. There WERE traces of lab technician DNA.

Chandra Levy's remains were also out and exposed to the point where the DNA pulled up from touch DNA testing was most likely contamination from a lab. At least that is what the prosecutors of that case got that trial's jurors to believe.

If the defense thought that there was NO chance of contamination or RK touching somemthing and that only the real killer's DNA would be all over the bag I don't believe they'd have asked for the more sensitive testing.

BBM

Unless of course, it is revealed with proof that Casey later added the shorts on her return trip to the woods, which I firmly believe will happen during the trial, if there is one.