2016.01.07 Docs - Batch 3 Photos *WARNING - GRAPHIC*

[Dmacky]

Bates #4804 Arrest warrant for JRR


Based on all of the evidence obtained during the investigation Lieutenant James Amrich finds that there is probable cause to believe that Jimmy Ray Rodgers intentionally killed Teresa Sievers by way of severe blunt force trauma utilizing a hammer.


So it's the investigator's belief that she was killed with a hammer. Not solid proof, but pretty reliable, IMO.

Thanks Scout, I didn't mean to infer she was NOT killed with a hammer. I totally agree with everything you have said. I was just throwing things out of my hat (nothing up my sleeve) :wink: as to why LE has determined the murder scene was staged. Thanks for taking time to find the bates # though.

 

[Scout]

Thanks Scout, I didn't mean to infer she was NOT killed with a hammer. I totally agree with everything you have said. I was just throwing things out of my hat (nothing up my sleeve) :wink: as to why LE has determined the murder scene was staged. Thanks for taking time to find the bates # though.

No problem. I just didn't want to send anyone off in the wrong direction with my hammer staging theory.

 

[howonkee]

It's referred to in reports as a hammer with a red handle. I don't think that is blood. The terminology used is not what would be used by investigators if the red color was anything other than the color of the handle.

I don't recall reading that in the reports. I must have missed it. If the investigators called it a hammer with a red handle, then yes that does indicate that it might not have been the hammer used, or could have been just one of the hammers used. I did go through the photos again and noted that it looked like blood on the hammer on the garage floor in front of the Mercedes in this batch of photos, bates #29046.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8dXBXME5jeU9FdGc/view

If anyone knows where that might be located in the docs I'd love to read it.

 

[Kairi'sMom]

Maybe it's "staged" in the sense that 2 hammers were used but only one was left at the scene of the crime? Or am I mistaken that two hammers are in evidence?

 

[howonkee]

Maybe it's "staged" in the sense that 2 hammers were used but only one was left at the scene of the crime? Or am I mistaken that two hammers are in evidence?

There are two hammers at the crime scene that appear to have been used and/or have blood on them. One in the kitchen near where TS was found and one on the garage floor in front of the Mercedes. There is a third hammer at the crime scene on top of a kleenex box which is on top of the freezer in the garage. It looks clean to me. Then there was a fourth hammer that was found in the white cooler that was described by TSho that was found at JRR's in Missouri.

 

[jtate0702]

I don't recall reading that in the reports. I must have missed it. If the investigators called it a hammer with a red handle, then yes that does indicate that it might not have been the hammer used, or could have been just one of the hammers used. I did go through the photos again and noted that it looked like blood on the hammer on the garage floor in front of the Mercedes in this batch of photos, bates #29046.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8dXBXME5jeU9FdGc/view

If anyone knows where that might be located in the docs I'd love to read it.

I agree.I also thought that the hammer in the garage looked like it had blood on it. Specifically, around the claw end, and where the shafts meets the head of the hammer.

 

[DeDee]

I would never wish to post erroneous info that may mislead other posters nor our readers. Therefore, I wish to clarify something I posted earlier.

1) I wrote that Dr. Sievers' two girls had visits with the Sheriff's office. I have been unable to confirm this claim as fact. I was relying upon my own recall from July/Aug/Sept 2015.

2) I also cannot find confirmation that Dr. Sievers left Our Mother's Home in the months preceding her death. Again, I was relying upon memory from last July/Aug/Sept when I was more involved in this case. To the best of my knowledge, their website no longer mentions Dr. Sievers past the date of Feb. 07, 2013.
http://ourmothershome.com/website/?s=Teresa+Sievers

I am way behind most everyone as I am still reading Doc Dump 2 and only on pg 206 of that particular release. This case has developed so many intricacies that I may never have the opp to read and see everything. Thank you for understanding.

If anyone can validate my #1 or #2 assumptions, it would be most appreciated. I am aware that MS stopped communicating with LEO and refused for his daughters' handprints, etc to be given to LEO after he retained a lawyer.
Doc Dump Batch 2
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8bjduM3RsYzNCak0/view?pref=2&pli=1

 

[Kairi'sMom]

There are two hammers at the crime scene that appear to have been used and/or have blood on them. One in the kitchen near where TS was found and one on the garage floor in front of the Mercedes. There is a third hammer at the crime scene on top of a kleenex box which is on top of the freezer in the garage. It looks clean to me. Then there was a fourth hammer that was found in the white cooler that was described by TSho that was found at JRR's in Missouri.

Hmm, ok thank you. I missed info on hammers 2 and 3 in the garage. That changes what I was thinking about.

 

[Scout]

There are close-ups of the hammer from the kitchen in this batch:

img01072016_0008.pdf

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8V3Zsek13ZGpxTzg/view?pref=2&pli=1

I don't see the amount of blood I would have expected. Maybe it isn't showing up well, or maybe my expectations are wrong. Or it may not have been the hammer that inflicted most of the wounds. Or it may have been cleaned to some extent.

 

[nifwor1967]

There are close-ups of the hammer from the kitchen in this batch:

img01072016_0008.pdf

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8V3Zsek13ZGpxTzg/view?pref=2&pli=1

I don't see the amount of blood I would have expected. Maybe it isn't showing up well, or maybe my expectations are wrong. Or it may not have been the hammer that inflicted most of the wounds. Or it may have been cleaned to some extent.

Wonder if this is one of the reasons they needed the DNA from the dog. I am disgusted even writing this, but that could be a possibility? Maybe why the hammer was not as bloody as we expected.

 

[howonkee]

Wonder if this is one of the reasons they needed the DNA from the dog. I am disgusted even writing this, but that could be a possibility? Maybe why the hammer was not as bloody as we expected.

Do you mean the dog might have licked the hammer?

 

[MinnesotaMary]

Sorry - have been offline due to obligations. FASCINATING, SHARP, SHARP posts !! WOW

1.) WOW - I never thought about the angle of MS not wanting 'to sit with Theresa's family & "grieve" with them & speculate on WHO would do this !! YUCK !! ICK !! I can't wrap my mind around that --------- could it even be that MS was sniveling about Theresa's family members, a 'they're nuttin' but a whole pack of losers'. I bring this point up because of how from how I read the Discovery, the backside of Theresa's skull was completely battered - a skull with a huge hole. For any of us who have seen a crime scene with head & brain wounds, when it's gunshot there's typically chips of bone flown all around & the brain matter splatters about. Could MS have DIRECTED that get done - 'make a point' to ruin Theresa's very head & 'eliminate her brain'???? Yikes. ALL is my speculation, IMO/speculation.......

2.) I notice I made a boo boo in my '#4' - sorry - I meant that IMO, I'd expect MS (not CWW) right now just hates all police, all law enforcement & all county social service - hating all of them would be an easy skip over to hating all local city & county government, and HATING ALL AUTHORITY !! IMAGINE the fit MS would be having if these girls of his went to regular school !! (FOR SURE the counselors, social worker, school psychologist AND THE COUNTY CHILD PROTECTION SPECIALISTS would constantly be talking with those girls.) Does anyone know if MS had a gripe with 'the government' (like....... 'rotten brainwashers in the schools....... ' 'terrible things happen in schools BY THOSE GOVERNMENT employees !!' and such that had him 'home school' the kids? Where I live it is not at all uncommon that a parent will totally derogate (trash) one school v another (EG the local public school v local Catholic school---I've seen it go 'both ways', of course....). I would think that an adult who says 'I must homeschool my kids' would be really hostile about local government, 'how things are run' - I'd expect such a person to be very 'uppity' ------- where I'm going with this is that I imagine MS is totally furious 24-7 now.

This also has me thinking, of course, that it sure makes sense that assuming MS is behind all of this, it was a classic domestic abuse pattern: POWER & CONTROL. MS had to have it ALL. IMO he would have been walking around acting for years, playing the seemingly loving hubby gig, all the time seething & building a concrete plan.........waiting for The Right Opportunity (sure makes sense why MS selected that exact time, method & mode IMO/assuming MS is behind all of this....just speculating...).

 

[nifwor1967]

Do you mean the dog might have licked the hammer?

I was thinking it could be a possibility, but it is so hard to imagine. And also, so disturbing.

 

[IQuestion]

Wonder if this is one of the reasons they needed the DNA from the dog. I am disgusted even writing this, but that could be a possibility? Maybe why the hammer was not as bloody as we expected.

NIFWOR1967....Am hearing you loud and clear, it does make a person queasy to even think about what occurred in that house. I even gave up researching "crescent shaped wounds", I couldn't make it past the first photo.
Once seen, it can not be unseen....my heart breaks for first responders & LE who have to enter homes every day and not be filled with grief and horror.

 

[irishchook]

Sorry - have been offline due to obligations. FASCINATING, SHARP, SHARP posts !! WOW

1.) WOW - I never thought about the angle of MS not wanting 'to sit with Theresa's family & "grieve" with them & speculate on WHO would do this !! YUCK !! ICK !! I can't wrap my mind around that --------- could it even be that MS was sniveling about Theresa's family members, a 'they're nuttin' but a whole pack of losers'. I bring this point up because of how from how I read the Discovery, the backside of Theresa's skull was completely battered - a skull with a huge hole. For any of us who have seen a crime scene with head & brain wounds, when it's gunshot there's typically chips of bone flown all around & the brain matter splatters about. Could MS have DIRECTED that get done - 'make a point' to ruin Theresa's very head & 'eliminate her brain'???? Yikes. ALL is my speculation, IMO/speculation.......

2.) I notice I made a boo boo in my '#4' - sorry - I meant that IMO, I'd expect MS (not CWW) right now just hates all police, all law enforcement & all county social service - hating all of them would be an easy skip over to hating all local city & county government, and HATING ALL AUTHORITY !! IMAGINE the fit MS would be having if these girls of his went to regular school !! (FOR SURE the counselors, social worker, school psychologist AND THE COUNTY CHILD PROTECTION SPECIALISTS would constantly be talking with those girls.) Does anyone know if MS had a gripe with 'the government' (like....... 'rotten brainwashers in the schools....... ' 'terrible things happen in schools BY THOSE GOVERNMENT employees !!' and such that had him 'home school' the kids? Where I live it is not at all uncommon that a parent will totally derogate (trash) one school v another (EG the local public school v local Catholic school---I've seen it go 'both ways', of course....). I would think that an adult who says 'I must homeschool my kids' would be really hostile about local government, 'how things are run' - I'd expect such a person to be very 'uppity' ------- where I'm going with this is that I imagine MS is totally furious 24-7 now.

This also has me thinking, of course, that it sure makes sense that assuming MS is behind all of this, it was a classic domestic abuse pattern: POWER & CONTROL. MS had to have it ALL. IMO he would have been walking around acting for years, playing the seemingly loving hubby gig, all the time seething & building a concrete plan.........waiting for The Right Opportunity (sure makes sense why MS selected that exact time, method & mode IMO/assuming MS is behind all of this....just speculating...).

It also makes me sick knowing he spent, I think, 4 DAYS with TS' family; sleeping on their sofa, eating their food..
I wonder what AW was doing while CW was sleeping all the time?? I would hope she was helping cooking meals, preparing photos, etc.
In the interview with AL & TS' mom, you could tell they are GOOD people..not quick to judge and very accommodating.
They both could have ran them under the bus during the interview, but took the high road instead.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[irishchook]

Wonder if this is one of the reasons they needed the DNA from the dog. I am disgusted even writing this, but that could be a possibility? Maybe why the hammer was not as bloody as we expected.

NIFWOR1967....Am hearing you loud and clear, it does make a person queasy to even think about what occurred in that house. I even gave up researching "crescent shaped wounds", I couldn't make it past the first photo.
Once seen, it can not be unseen....my heart breaks for first responders & LE who have to enter homes every day and not be filled with grief and horror.

I copied this from the batch 3 thread because of the graphic/gory nature.
TS' dogs were definitely there after the scene (maybe during).
I have 2 dogs as well, and I'm hoping the defense doesn't claim they contaminated the scene.


Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Riversinthedesert]

I would never wish to post erroneous info that may mislead other posters nor our readers. Therefore, I wish to clarify something I posted earlier.

1) I wrote that Dr. Sievers' two girls had visits with the Sheriff's office. I have been unable to confirm this claim as fact. I was relying upon my own recall from July/Aug/Sept 2015.

2) I also cannot find confirmation that Dr. Sievers left Our Mother's Home in the months preceding her death. Again, I was relying upon memory from last July/Aug/Sept when I was more involved in this case. To the best of my knowledge, their website no longer mentions Dr. Sievers past the date of Feb. 07, 2013.
http://ourmothershome.com/website/?s=Teresa+Sievers

I am way behind most everyone as I am still reading Doc Dump 2 and only on pg 206 of that particular release. This case has developed so many intricacies that I may never have the opp to read and see everything. Thank you for understanding.

If anyone can validate my #1 or #2 assumptions, it would be most appreciated. I am aware that MS stopped communicating with LEO and refused for his daughters' handprints, etc to be given to LEO after he retained a lawyer.
Doc Dump Batch 2
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8bjduM3RsYzNCak0/view?pref=2&pli=1

Sievers volunteered with Our Mother's Home, a transitional home for teen mothers and their babies near San Carlos Park.
"She wanted to make a difference for young girls who needed that," Hood said.
"Dr. Sievers had so much more life to live and many more contributions I know she would want to give," Hood said. "She will be greatly missed and we can only hope to help fill in some of the gap by staying involved in Our Mother's Home in her honor."
Karen Watson, director of Our Mother's Home, said she knew Sievers as a caring person who had been active with the house since 2007, resigning in March from the board to focus on her practice.
"She was a loving, kind person," Watson said.
http://www.news-press.com/story/new...vestigating-death-in-bonita-springs/29474437/

 

[travelbug]

I don't recall where the idea of a ball peen hammer being used in this homicide originated, but IMO the head wounds described in the ME section of the investigative report are not consistent with a ball peen hammer. She had 17 crescent shaped and irregular lacerations. We have no further description or images of the irregular lacerations at this point. However wounds made with the peen part of a ball peen hammer head would nogt be described as irregular IMO and would not cause crescent shaped lacerations.

That's true, however they may have used the flat side of the hammer which would leave crescent shaped marks. Perhaps the marks were smaller than the heads of the crime scene hammers and that was how they knew there was another weapon. Once again I'm puzzled by their plan (or stupidity) in returning the pry bar to the saddlebag of MS's bike. If we didn't have the ongoing contact between CWW and MS it would appear as if MS was being set up. These guys were the Three Stooges.

 

[creepingskills]

I remember Taylor saying their was a ball peen hammer in the white cooler when he got home from Florida. I assume LE has it.

ETA ~ from Doc dump batch 2 Bates 4378
Taylor S ~
Inside white cooler was a box of blue latex gloves
one ball peen hammer
pair of black shoes

If I saw a hammer inside a cooler, I would say hammer. NOT ball peen hammer :giggle:

BBM. I know! Very specific. She knows more than I did at her age about hammers. Definitely didn't know 'ball peen' was a kind of hammer.:giggle:

 

[DexterMorgan]

Wonder if this is one of the reasons they needed the DNA from the dog. I am disgusted even writing this, but that could be a possibility? Maybe why the hammer was not as bloody as we expected.

The dog could have been licking her to wake her up or show compassion or licking and nudging on her ear. Idk.

Now they probably didn't think it was money motivated. So they may have quickly assumed a possible sexual motivation.

So they may have checked the dogs dna to help narrow down any dna that they find on her.

Or they could have simply swabbed the dog to see if he bit the attacker. Idk