Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[FrostedGlass]

Isn't it possible they had permission from the owners (wife) for a cursory look-see around the yard without making entry into the structures? In effect, securing the property, while waiting on the warrant.

JMO

According to the docs, the search warrant was not complete by 7:09 pm.
RA and his wife were kept outside their home for hours. Long before the warrant was executed.
I have yet to find any info on when they took his vehicle away.
Here's Nick's expanded version of the search. I'm slightly amused at his estimation of items seized.

19. Investigators went to the residence of the Defendant, located at 1967 North Whiteman Drive, Delphi, Indiana, knocked on the door and executed the search warrant around 5:00 P.M. on October 13th, 2022 and the search was complete around 7:09 P.M.

20. The Defendant and his wife were asked to be out of the residence while the search warrant was executed but were allowed back in the residence immediately afierwards.

21. Investigators found several items in the residence, including firearms and electronic devices, all of which is outlined in the Search Warrant Return attached herein as State's Exhibit "2".

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[vinayd]

The follow up interview and search warrant happened the same day. That's major MOO. I can't wait for the day I can watch RA and KA interviews. Hope that audio doesn't get lost

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Filed today:
State's Memorandum Post Contempt Hearing

RSBM
Well none of this surprised me. Seems to reflect what many of us have said from October of last year.
It doesn’t look like MW was snookering but being used as a tool to leak and gauge public reactions to defense theories and strategies. IMO
Absolutely against court orders IMO And at a huge cost to the families of the victims and perhaps even their defendant.
IMO this is NOT how defense attorneys are supposed to behave it’s not a game of checkers or chess. It’s not a game at all.
Justice hangs in the balance and the livelihoods of many are affected by the actions of a few.
This type of behavior should be punished so it never occurs again.
All my heartfelt and genuine opinion.

And sorry if bringing it back up. I have been behind on the thread and just had a chance to catch up on all the motions and transcripts.

 

[vinayd]

Lucky for RA and team the state is only requesting sanctions. Would suck if his crowd funding has to be used for that.

 

[justtrish]

RSBM
Well none of this surprised me. Seems to reflect what many of us have said from October of last year.
It doesn’t look like MW was snookering but being used as a tool to leak and gauge public reactions to defense theories and strategies. IMO
Absolutely against court orders IMO And at a huge cost to the families of the victims and perhaps even their defendant.
IMO this is NOT how defense attorneys are supposed to behave it’s not a game of checkers or chess. It’s not a game at all.
Justice hangs in the balance and the livelihoods of many are affected by the actions of a few.
This type of behavior should be punished so it never occurs again.
All my heartfelt and genuine opinion.

And sorry if bringing it back up. I have been behind on the thread and just had a chance to catch up on all the motions and transcripts.

Yet somehow these defense attorney's are viewed as mounting a great defense and doing their job. I agree with you their job does NOT include leaking info to the public in order to get sympathy for their client. I do lean toward these photos being leaked on purpose.. it did serve a purpose I think much of what they have done has actually damaged their client, yet they package it up as defending him.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Lucky for RA and team the state is only requesting sanctions. Would suck if his crowd funding has to be used for that.

If the judge agrees that they are guilty of contemptuous conduct they will need more than 45k. IMO
If those leaked crime scene photos were still on the internet last week then the victim’s families have every right to sue the defense team for any emotional distress, emotional suffering and future emotional suffering that resulted from the leak.
They can never go on the internet and search their loved ones names without worrying of what they may see.
IMO it will have waves of impact on defense team and the defendant beyond possible sanctions.
AMO and I am off the soapbox.

 

[layer]

21. Investigators found several items in the residence, including firearms and electronic devices, all of which is outlined in the Search Warrant Return attached herein as State's Exhibit "2".

several... I guess lawyers get tired of using "certain" to denote ambiguity.

 

[layer]

Diener signs his search warrant at 6:37 pm.
Tony Liggett states that he executed the search warrant at 7:09 pm.
19. Investigators went to the residence of the Defendant, located at 1967 North Whiteman Drive, Delphi, Indiana, knocked on the door and executed the search warrant around 5:00 P.M. on October 13th, 2022 and the search was complete around 7:09 P.M.

You're right, that is mighty peculiar. Are we looking at a potential fruit of the poisonous tree situation here?

 

[snooptroop88]

Someone named Ursamajr, Nemophilist put in an expansive listing of items "collected from 1967 Whiteman Dr. Delphi, Indiana and from the car acquired at that property." This is on #164, June 28, 2023. It's a very detailed list and includes these items:

Sealed paper bag containing one winter gray hat with fur like fibers
Sealed paper bag containing one brown fitted cap with a small bill
Sealed paper bag containing one brown Carhartt stocking cap.
Sealed paper bag containing one blue fabric strap, and one blue/green fabric strap
Sealed cardboard box containing a plastic bag containing a custom vehicle operations motorcycle cover bag containing a motorcycle cover
Sealed paper bag containing one Winchester Supreme Elite empty ammo box

So they took two brown caps, one fitted and one Carhartt stocking. The Carhartt stocking is what I think I've been seeing in images of RA in a pool hall. I wonder what the one with the "small bill" looks like.

 

[layer]

Sealed paper bag containing one Winchester Supreme Elite empty ammo box

OK, that is interesting.
That ammo first came out in 2009, it later changed it's name to PDX1 Defender (I guess that's supposed to sound cooler.) It was released in 2 projectile weights for .40 S&W:

• S40SWPDB 40 S&W 165g JHP Bonded
• S40SWPDB1 40 S&W 180g JHP Bonded

Source

 

[mrjitty]

RSBM
Well none of this surprised me. Seems to reflect what many of us have said from October of last year.
It doesn’t look like MW was snookering but being used as a tool to leak and gauge public reactions to defense theories and strategies. IMO
Absolutely against court orders IMO And at a huge cost to the families of the victims and perhaps even their defendant.
IMO this is NOT how defense attorneys are supposed to behave it’s not a game of checkers or chess. It’s not a game at all.
Justice hangs in the balance and the livelihoods of many are affected by the actions of a few.
This type of behavior should be punished so it never occurs again.
All my heartfelt and genuine opinion.

And sorry if bringing it back up. I have been behind on the thread and just had a chance to catch up on all the motions and transcripts.

What really sticks in the craw IMO, is that the defence and DH obviously misled the Judge in the phone conference, during the in chambers hearing, and in open court about MW's role, when AB had in fact already conceded to Law Enforcement that he had sent the Franks to MW. He never mentioned that to the Judge. Counsel for the defense, DH, was out there saying this could happen to any small practitioner when you pop to the toilet or answer the phone and someone sneaks in!

According to Murdersheet's double podcast coverage, it came up in examination how it could be possible that MW was receiving work product if he was not an agent for the defence, and the defence refused to concede the point that he was an agent (for obvious reasons)

Judge Gull's big mistake was not holding the hearing back in October to get all this on the record. That's were her apparent laziness about the record came back to bite her. Especially her pre-prepped order did not include this info, as prosecution had not had the chance to present it yet.

But the idea the defence were victims of Judge Gull is hard to maintain IMO. This is some egregious conduct. As usual, the real victim here is RA with his representation and delay, and the families.

Screenshot of the relevant summary of MWs changing role attached

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

This is a very dangerous case.

View attachment 494133

The case is a roller coaster, to be sure. Detective Ferency (RIP) had a dangerous job as a Terre Haute police detective (30-year veteran) and an FBI Task Force member since 2010 (the latter position he was serving in when killed in Terre Haute in the line of duty).

Det. Ferency was best known for his work in narcotics (he wrote a book) and human trafficking and worked on many dangerous issues over his distinguished career.

MOO: I mention and link this because I’ve seen this terrible July 2021 killing referenced here and elsewhere with the suggestion that the murder was related to Det. Ferency’s work on the Delphi case. There is zero evidence to suggest that. I hope I will have some leeway in providing a bit of a linked and referenced deep dive on this ambush and murder of a federal agent since it is oft-referenced as related to the Delphi case.

Dive below, please disregard if not of interest.
—

A NYT article on the murder states:

So far this year, 161 law enforcement officials have died in the line of duty, 29 of them by gunfire, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page, a nonprofit organization that tracks the data. In 2020, 369 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty, 45 of them by intentional gunfire, it said.

A WFY-Indianapolis article further observes (BBM)

Ferency is the third Terre Haute police officer fatally shot in the past decade. Officer Brent Long was killed in 2011 and Officer Robert Pitts died in 2018 — both in shootings that happened as they and other officers were attempting to make arrests.

A Heavy.com article on the indicted suspect, Shane Meehan, does not reference any connection to Carroll County or Delphi. A My Wabash Valley article that predates Det. Ferency’s murder features an indepth interview with Meehan, who was at the time a candidate for Terre Haute mayor. One of his major platform issues was addressing gun violence.

Because this involved an attack on a federal office and the killing of a federal agent, Meehan faces federal charges. In July 2022, federal prosecutors filed that they would not seek the federal death penalty in the case (Meehan formerly worked at the federal prison where federal executions — like Timothy McVeigh’s execution — occur). WTHR reported at the time:

Meehan’s attorneys have said they did not believe he qualified for the death penalty and told the court last month they had submitted 1,500 pages of medical records to show his medical condition. His attorneys have referred to his condition as “brain damage and mental illness.”

The link in the quote above is to an AP article that covered the filing and states:

…[Shane Meehan’s] legal counsel said Meehan has been diagnosed by doctors with several health conditions, including post-concussion syndrome, a traumatic brain injury, a seizure disorder, Parkinson’s disease, and chronic pain syndrome.

They said he was placed on permanent medical leave from his position at the federal prison complex in Terre Haute due to his medical history and that he had previously been hospitalized related to suicidal ideations.

—
His trial was supposed to start the end of March 2024, but I can’t find any updates or a WS thread following it.

I have been following Abby’s and Libby’s terrible murders since they went missing. I grew up near Delphi (separated by several decades); have my own frustrations with the investigation; like many Hoosiers, have my own 6-degrees-of-separation to the case (NOT an insider); and also have close ones who serve in federal roles and follow anti-federal violence, especially in Indiana.

I sadly suspect this was akin to a disgruntled former employee with mental health issues attacking a former employer. Court documents are linked above. The attack by all indications was specific to the federal office, not to Det. Ferency.

Thank you and MOO with links, per TOS.

 

[mrjitty]

Noting that here that post-hearing, the State does not repeat it's original contempt pleading relief via the removal of the Defense, and instead leaves the Court to determine any sanctions.

State also continues to admit reading Defense privileged work product, and clarifies (corrects?) that contempt motion (which was unclear and a criminal contempt motion - in its original) is for indirect civil contempt.

JMHO

BBM

Out of interest, did the defence assert privilege over those communications in the lead up to the hearing?

I tuned out the contempt furor so don't know the answer, but wondered if you knew.

 

[katydid23]

In my system, it's fair for the D to hire an expert who is not working for the state.

Right, instead the hired expert will be working for the defense. We will have 'duelling' experts to muddy the waters.

If the state presents audio of his 5 confessions we will then hear this 25,000 dollar 'expert' explaining why it is not a credible confession. They will not be working for the state but will be working for the defense to the tune of 25k.

Most of the state's experts are paid by salary for their roles---like FBI Agents, Coroners, Medical Examiners, etc. They are not 'shopped' for by the state. The DA investigates the case by meeting with the state's paid employees to uncover the facts and the evidence. These employees are paid to be unbiased and impartial.

The defense is crowdfunding to buy their own experts to rebut the evidence. It will be interesting to see how credible they are.

 

[mrjitty]

Most of the state's experts are paid by salary for their roles---like FBI Agents, Coroners, Medical Examiners, etc. They are not 'shopped' for by the state. The DA investigates the case by meeting with the state's paid employees to uncover the facts and the evidence. These employees are paid to be unbiased and impartial.

RSBM

This is a good point. The crime lab is sent evidence to analyse. They don't have a dog in the fight about whether an unspent round is a match or not. No doubt they were sent lots of samples in this case which didn't show anything useful and they said so.

 

[marv hucker]

And they didn’t recognize him by sight either. But so many here can look at that still shot and go, RA = BG without question. SMH. JMHO

At one point I was going down the rabbit hole and realised that both the FBI agent involved in this case (Greg Ferency) and the guy who killed him (Shane Meehan) could quite easily be BG.


Nothing in the footage excludes RA, but it does really seem like it could be nearly any >25yo white male of Indiana.

 

[katydid23]

This was the first step on my Path of Distrust. To this day I haven't decided why I think the prosecutor directed ISP to violate the Access to Public Records Act(APRA). Seemingly, ISP couldn't even claim ignorance of the act. I've looked for the "other opinions" as noted in 3. (below) but I haven't been able to find them.

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/22-FC-157.pdf

ISP confirmed that Wilkins was denied the information until October 31, 2022 when ISP held a press conference and issued a press release. ISP argues it was “under the direction” of the county prosecutor and that any court records were sealed.
...
This office previously addressed this issue in a case where ISP was also the respondent.
...
3. The role of the prosecutor and judiciary in documenting arrests
ISP also cites the local prosecutor and presiding judge as factors in the delay. While that matter is being addressed in other opinions, it is notable that APRA’s daily log requirement for law enforcement is not a judicial record.

There are a lot of investigative strategy reasons that the prosecutor takes into account, when deciding how to announce a big arrest of a murderer. Once it is made public, certain other people may begin destroying evidence, breaking phones or computers and even leaving town quickly.

I don't see a problem with taking an extra day or two to make the public announcement of an arrest like that one in a high profile case. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Lucky for RA and team the state is only requesting sanctions. Would suck if his crowd funding has to be used for that.

Don't worry. The use of funds is very specific.

 

[FrostedGlass]

There are a lot of investigative strategy reasons that the prosecutor takes into account, when deciding how to announce a big arrest of a murderer. Once it is made public, certain other people may begin destroying evidence, breaking phones or computers and even leaving town quickly.

I don't see a problem with taking an extra day or two to make the public announcement of an arrest like that one in a high profile case. JMO

It's perfectly fine that you don't see it as a problem; but we have rules to follow. We can't just pick and choose what parts suit us. I'm not going to quote the entire opinion by Luke Britt; the link to the opinion is below for anyone to read if they want.

IMO this issue cannot be hand-waved away.
Excerpts from the Opinion
Ind. Code § 5-14-3-5. Additionally, if a person is arrested and jailed, the following must be logged:
(1) Information that identifies the person including the person’s name, age, and address.
(2) Information concerning the reason for the person being placed in the jail or lock-up, including the name of the person on whose order the person is being held.
(3) The time and date that the person was received and the time and date of the person’s discharge or transfer.
(4) The amount of the person’s bail or bond, if it has been fixed.
An agency must make the information available for inspection and copying in compliance with APRA. The record containing the information must be created within 24 hours after the suspected crime, accident, complaint or arrest has been reported to the agency. Id.

3. The role of the prosecutor and judiciary in documenting arrests
ISP also cites the local prosecutor and presiding judge as factors in the delay. While that matter is being addressed in other opinions, it is notable that APRA’s daily log requirement for law enforcement is not a judicial record. As a result, the daily log is mutually exclusive from any court record over which judicial officers have purview. The daily log statute applies to law enforcement agencies in the executive branch of government. It is an affirmative duty that cannot be bargained, pled, or motioned away through a court procedure. This office remains convinced that much of the consternation regarding public access in this case is much of the government’s own doing. Simply put, the law enforcement agencies at play could have anticipated an onslaught of requests for the arrest information and prepared accordingly instead of keeping the public in the dark for several days until they arranged a more convenient method of disseminating information.

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/22-FC-157.pdf

 

[mrjitty]

It's perfectly fine that you don't see it as a problem; but we have rules to follow. We can't just pick and choose what parts suit us. I'm not going to quote the entire opinion by Luke Britt; the link to the opinion is below for anyone to read if they want.

IMO this issue cannot be hand-waved away.
Excerpts from the Opinion
Ind. Code § 5-14-3-5. Additionally, if a person is arrested and jailed, the following must be logged:
(1) Information that identifies the person including the person’s name, age, and address.
(2) Information concerning the reason for the person being placed in the jail or lock-up, including the name of the person on whose order the person is being held.
(3) The time and date that the person was received and the time and date of the person’s discharge or transfer.
(4) The amount of the person’s bail or bond, if it has been fixed.
An agency must make the information available for inspection and copying in compliance with APRA. The record containing the information must be created within 24 hours after the suspected crime, accident, complaint or arrest has been reported to the agency. Id.

3. The role of the prosecutor and judiciary in documenting arrests
ISP also cites the local prosecutor and presiding judge as factors in the delay. While that matter is being addressed in other opinions, it is notable that APRA’s daily log requirement for law enforcement is not a judicial record. As a result, the daily log is mutually exclusive from any court record over which judicial officers have purview. The daily log statute applies to law enforcement agencies in the executive branch of government. It is an affirmative duty that cannot be bargained, pled, or motioned away through a court procedure. This office remains convinced that much of the consternation regarding public access in this case is much of the government’s own doing. Simply put, the law enforcement agencies at play could have anticipated an onslaught of requests for the arrest information and prepared accordingly instead of keeping the public in the dark for several days until they arranged a more convenient method of disseminating information.

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/22-FC-157.pdf

I agree it was bad. I had forgotten about all this. My take at the time (before the case got so crazy), was that it probably wasn't nefarious - rather small town people lost their minds a bit on this huge case. Judge Diener being someone who did not cover himself in glory IMO.

But yeah - journos were rightly annoyed about this