Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[Spartygirl]

And none of them were Richard Allen. Apparently. IMO.

We know that HE called himself and placed himself at the bridge that day.
He could have been called (tipped) in by others -- we do not know who all called in and what names were tipped in.

 

[sunshineray]

One comment on a video about Abby/Libby passing the bridge and the man behind them (BG) was remarkable many years ago: The poster said, as if he would know, that the BG made the photo of Abby on the bridge. The poster got an offense by another poster (as usual), who asked, why HE would know that and if HE was present on the bridge at that time. The poster (initials JP) answered with a counter question, if the challenging poster would know better and if HE had been present on the bridge. Then both posters stopped.
Since then, I'm again and again thinking of it and whether it would have been possible and what would it have said about the ongoings on the bridge incl. the recording ......

The picture on the bridge of Abby was time stamped and posted to SnapChat before the video of BG approaching the girls. There was that video with audio of the girls speaking as he approached them after Abby crossed.

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying? If so apologies

 

[FrostedGlass]

We know that HE called himself and placed himself at the bridge that day.
He could have been called (tipped) in by others -- we do not know who all called in and what names were tipped in.

If he was tipped in by someone other than himself, I would think someone would have followed up on that lead. Maybe not, though.

 

[sunshineray]

My recollection is that RA when talking to DD, didn’t rule out the possibility that A&L were in fact amongst the 3 girls he saw. He said he didn’t speak with the group of 3 nor look closely at them, only specifically remembering that a dark-haired girl within the group of 3 was “taller” (presumably taller than the other 2, though he could’ve meant taller than him or tall for her age??)

Based on DD’s follow-up note of “who were these three girls?” I certainly believe it plausible that DD suspected A&L were the 2 shorter ones and an abductor may have been the taller (older?) one.

Though it’s never said, IMO DD would likely have had some Missing Person photos (assuming his meeting with RA was morning of 2/14) of A&L to show RA at the interview to ask if he had seen these two, or if these two might’ve been part of the group of 3. So I believe RA would’ve been clued in on what A&L looked like.

Again a frustration that seemingly no confirmation (or not) has ever been released that… did the other group of 4 girls who saw a man…contain one girl who was dark-haired and noticeably taller? If so, it would surely seem to put RA on LE’s timeline. If not, then we’re left with possibilities including 2 different girl groups or RA fabrication of story.

There was not two groups, one with 3, one with 4, of girls as far as I know from what's been released. I think maybe it was a group of 4 but one never spoke to LE? Since they were minors maybe her parents said no...until later on in the investigation?

 

[sunshineray]

If he was tipped in by someone other than himself, I would think someone would have followed up on that lead. Maybe not, though.

Maybe he just wasn't tipped, except by himself of course, until 2023?

 

[Salah11]

The confessions to his family cannot simply be explained away. Which is why the defence has refused to give any answer in multiple Frank’s to address the elephant in the room.

Moo

 

[Cyber sleuth]

We know that HE called himself and placed himself at the bridge that day.
He could have been called (tipped) in by others -- we do not know who all called in and what names were tipped in.

Yes and I do believe he placed himself at MHB because he knew he had been spotted on the 1st platform.
If he didn’t realize he was spotted by BB he would have never put himself near the MHB. He could have said he turned towards the Meers farm entrance and doubled back towards his car parked at CPS. But instead he said he walked from Freedom to MHB after crossing paths with the group of girls near Freedom Bridge.
I do think this narrative with DD happened within 24 hours of the crime. I don’t think the video stills had been released at the time of his tip. I don’t think he would have ever come forward if he knew that video was discovered.
All my opinion.

 

[DeDee]

True. Hope we see the entire video taken by Libby, if there is ever a trial. The PCA seems to indicate they saw and heard BG up close.

The video recovered from Victim 2’s phone shows Victim 1 (Abby) walking southeast on Monon High Bridge while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victim mentions, “gun.” Near the end of the video a male is seen and heard telling the girls, “Guys, down the hill.” The girls then proceed to go down the hill and the video ends. —-PAGE 2

Do you mind explaining how we [the public] might see the entire video from Libby's phone since the Judge is not allowing cameras into her courtroom? It is none of my business if you intend to attend the trial in person and will have the opportunity to view it from within the courtroom. As for me, I have no expectations of seeing any photos, or footage during the trial unless another Judges oversees the trial for the murders of Abby and Libby.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Do you mind explaining how we [the public] might see the entire video from Libby's phone since the Judge is not allowing cameras into her courtroom? It is none of my business if you intend to attend the trial in person and will have the opportunity to view it from within the courtroom. As for me, I have no expectations of seeing any photos, or footage during the trial unless another Judges oversees the trial for the murders of Abby and Libby.

MOO

You’re right. It wouldn’t be we (the public) viewing the video, rather it would be they (the jury). We (in the peanut gallery) will only hear about it later, by media report. I imagine after the trial, transcripts and items admitted into evidence might be obtained by FOIA, or maybe they become public at that time?

 

[steeltowngirl]

But if there were closer, clearer images of BG on the video, LE would have used those for the manhunt. Maybe it’s just his feet?

Maybe not better images, but if it is true that BH met Abby 2x at PW’s house as described in the latest motion to dismiss, then Abby likely would have recognized one of them, if they were BG on the bridge. She likely would have said or screamed the name at some point, probably as soon as the gun was visible. If that happened and had been caught on the video, the manhunt may not have ever been needed. They’d have had their guy.

My belief is the girls didn’t know BG. At least not what he looked like (if they were murdered by a catfisher - one theory of mine).

jmo

 

[EOA]

There was not two groups, one with 3, one with 4, of girls as far as I know from what's been released. I think maybe it was a group of 4 but one never spoke to LE? Since they were minors maybe her parents said no...until later on in the investigation?

It’s not my position per se that there were two groups of girls, though IMO it’s conceivable IF RA’s 2022 version of him being at the trail starting at noon to is believed or can be supported. IF so, the similarly described encounters could have been up to 90-ish minutes apart and would been more likely to have involved different parties. We don’t to my knowledge have any roster of people on the trails that much earlier but common usage would estimate another dozen to 15 people that might’ve been there at noon but not at 1:30.

The P’s crafty yet brilliant wording in the PCA of “Investigators interviewed 3 juvenile girls” led us all to believe for a long time that this was a tidy agreement that RA saw 3 girls per DD interview and likewise a group of 3 girls saw BG - therefore RA must be BG. It did not come out until later docs that the group of girls seeing the likely BG was actually 4 (BW, AS, RV plus her sister IV) which would’ve been an inconvenient fact to put in the PCA. As said previously the best way to confirm each party is describing the same encounter is to confirm RA’s statement to DD that one of the above initialed girls was in fact noticeably taller and with dark hair.

You are probably correct IMO about the reason only 3 of the group of 4 girls were interviewed.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If he was tipped in by someone other than himself, I would think someone would have followed up on that lead. Maybe not, though.

Maybe someone from within was ditching tips about RA.
A coverup to protect him and lead investigators on the wrong path!

 

[FromGermany1]

The picture on the bridge of Abby was time stamped and posted to SnapChat before the video of BG approaching the girls. There was that video with audio of the girls speaking as he approached them after Abby crossed.

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying? If so apologies

You are right with the Snapchat-time. I don't know, whether another sequence would be possible than what we thought.

 

[joe jones]

I am beyond perplexed at how he would have been able to carry out these crimes (I accept LE have evidence such as the cartridge, and there has been many confessions he has allegedly made according to prosecution - the defenses ridiculous attempt to discredit the confessions as to him being to scared of the guards and there affiliation with wiccan practices is beyond absurd, but at present we do not know what he said in these confessions so we need to wait for trial to find that out, so cartridge, he places himself on bridge at relevant time, he adds weight to him being on trails by saying he saw the female witnesses, and they have said they saw someone very similar to bridge guy, he said he parked where other witnesses saw a car which we have to wait for trial to see how they described it in 17 and was it a close enough match to his car, he had similar clothes in 17 according to he and his wife, he has the gun which some experts have said cycled the cartridge through, he had and has an interest in knives as I think they seized one, and I am sure there is other evidence) but all the things he had to do in that short window of time is extraordinary, to get two teenage girls to strip naked in the outdoors when they would have been freezing cold due to having waded across the creek, and yes he had a gun but there were two of them and I imagine even at gun point it would have taken some persuasion and then time for them to get all the cold wet clothes off themselves, at some point he had to put the gun away and get out his knife and this is where I struggle the most with how did he do it all, because initially I could see them staying together but once he attacked Libby and I think he attacked Libby first Abbys self preservation would surely have kicked in and imo she surely could have made a good attempt to outrun him

I hope we get enough detail from the trial that explains it all

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It’s not my position per se that there were two groups of girls, though IMO it’s conceivable IF RA’s 2022 version of him being at the trail starting at noon to is believed or can be supported. IF so, the similarly described encounters could have been up to 90-ish minutes apart and would been more likely to have involved different parties. We don’t to my knowledge have any roster of people on the trails that much earlier but common usage would estimate another dozen to 15 people that might’ve been there at noon but not at 1:30.

The P’s crafty yet brilliant wording in the PCA of “Investigators interviewed 3 juvenile girls” led us all to believe for a long time that this was a tidy agreement that RA saw 3 girls per DD interview and likewise a group of 3 girls saw BG - therefore RA must be BG. It did not come out until later docs that the group of girls seeing the likely BG was actually 4 (BW, AS, RV plus her sister IV) which would’ve been an inconvenient fact to put in the PCA. As said previously the best way to confirm each party is describing the same encounter is to confirm RA’s statement to DD that one of the above initialed girls was in fact noticeably taller and with dark hair.

You are probably correct IMO about the reason only 3 of the group of 4 girls were interviewed.

I appreciate your focus on the real strategy of a defense for RA. His arrival and departure to the trails and not wild conspiracy theories. It seems like it would be the best defense.

So my question is why didn’t defense use this instead of the whole Odinist Soddi defense they continue to try to present?

Seems simple enough right? He stated in October 2022 that he arrived at 12 and left at 1:30pm on February 13th. So why not pursue this line of defense?
My opinion is there is not one shred of evidence that supports this narrative. Otherwise we would have 4 Franks motions that were filled with the names and testimony of individuals placing him on the trails between 12-130 and then placing him somewhere else from 130-5pm.
But we don’t. They haven’t pursued this easy-peasy defense strategy for a reason. IMO it won’t float.

All my opinion.
Edit:wrong date.

 

[sunshineray]

It’s not my position per se that there were two groups of girls, though IMO it’s conceivable IF RA’s 2022 version of him being at the trail starting at noon to is believed or can be supported. IF so, the similarly described encounters could have been up to 90-ish minutes apart and would been more likely to have involved different parties. We don’t to my knowledge have any roster of people on the trails that much earlier but common usage would estimate another dozen to 15 people that might’ve been there at noon but not at 1:30.

The P’s crafty yet brilliant wording in the PCA of “Investigators interviewed 3 juvenile girls” led us all to believe for a long time that this was a tidy agreement that RA saw 3 girls per DD interview and likewise a group of 3 girls saw BG - therefore RA must be BG. It did not come out until later docs that the group of girls seeing the likely BG was actually 4 (BW, AS, RV plus her sister IV) which would’ve been an inconvenient fact to put in the PCA. As said previously the best way to confirm each party is describing the same encounter is to confirm RA’s statement to DD that one of the above initialed girls was in fact noticeably taller and with dark hair.

You are probably correct IMO about the reason only 3 of the group of 4 girls were interviewed.

There is this about the number of people on/around the trails that day. Abby's mom did a 2020 interview where she said LE told her 50+ people. Starts at the 27:45 time stamp.

 

[sunshineray]

I am beyond perplexed at how he would have been able to carry out these crimes (I accept LE have evidence such as the cartridge, and there has been many confessions he has allegedly made according to prosecution - the defenses ridiculous attempt to discredit the confessions as to him being to scared of the guards and there affiliation with wiccan practices is beyond absurd, but at present we do not know what he said in these confessions so we need to wait for trial to find that out, so cartridge, he places himself on bridge at relevant time, he adds weight to him being on trails by saying he saw the female witnesses, and they have said they saw someone very similar to bridge guy, he said he parked where other witnesses saw a car which we have to wait for trial to see how they described it in 17 and was it a close enough match to his car, he had similar clothes in 17 according to he and his wife, he has the gun which some experts have said cycled the cartridge through, he had and has an interest in knives as I think they seized one, and I am sure there is other evidence) but all the things he had to do in that short window of time is extraordinary, to get two teenage girls to strip naked in the outdoors when they would have been freezing cold due to having waded across the creek, and yes he had a gun but there were two of them and I imagine even at gun point it would have taken some persuasion and then time for them to get all the cold wet clothes off themselves, at some point he had to put the gun away and get out his knife and this is where I struggle the most with how did he do it all, because initially I could see them staying together but once he attacked Libby and I think he attacked Libby first Abbys self preservation would surely have kicked in and imo she surely could have made a good attempt to outrun him

I hope we get enough detail from the trial that explains it all

DBM, Gray Hughes video no longer available except to subscribers

 

[sunshineray]

DBM, Gray Hughes video no longer available except to subscribers

Sorry about that, never had that happen with one of his videos before. I've had that link for a few years and it always worked, no more

 

[steeltowngirl]

I appreciate your focus on the real strategy of a defense for RA. His arrival and departure to the trails and not wild conspiracy theories. It seems like it would be the best defense.

So my question is why didn’t defense use this instead of the whole Odinist Soddi defense they continue to try to present?

Seems simple enough right? He stated in October 2022 that he arrived at 12 and left at 1:30pm on February 13th. So why not pursue this line of defense?
My opinion is there is not one shred of evidence that supports this narrative. Otherwise we would have 4 Franks motions that were filled with the names and testimony of individuals placing him on the trails between 12-130 and then placing him somewhere else from 130-5pm.
But we don’t. They haven’t pursued this easy-peasy defense strategy for a reason. IMO it won’t float.

All my opinion.
Edit:wrong date.

Exactly. Great post.
The defense strategy is “Look there, not here.”

jmo

 

[Willow Knight]

There is this about the number of people on/around the trails that day. Abby's mom did a 2020 interview where she said LE told her 50+ people. Starts at the 27:45 time stamp.

I was watching that vid again today. Kept it from one of your previous post, it is really interesting. Two other things found at your kink, AW (Abby's mom) also talks about her understanding of the reason behind two sketches, then she talks about how they do not believe the girls knew the person (BG).