Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[somequestions]

If there was not a video in this case, then I think it would be easier to come to the conclusion that bridge guy is Richard Allen. In this case, the pictures and the video seem to tell a story of time across a bridge.

2:05 picture or posted: Full view of the bridge with no one in the background.
2:07 picture or posted: Abby and Libby are quite far across in less than 2 minutes. Maybe they were challenging each other to see who could get across faster? Libby takes a picture of Abby walking on the bridge.

After this picture, for some reason it seems to take the girls much longer to get across the rest of the bridge whereas they were moving a lot quicker when they first got onto the bridge or at least that is what the pictures and video suggest.

2:13 picture and video: It is hypothesized Abby is barely seen in the video. She is walking in front of the main image that Liberty German takes of bridge guy coming across the bridge.

I can only hypothesize after this point that police used the eventual voice command timestamp maybe 15-20 seconds later to come to the conclusion that the bridge guy walking towards them is also the same person who gave them the command to go down the hill.

The pictures, however limited they might be, helped me understand the girl's movement across the bridge.

 

[Salah11]

I still believe RA said something creepy as the girls went out on to the bridge. There had to be a exchange of some kind.

There is a reason that as he closed down on them that Libby started to record him and the girls were spooked.

I believe the girls got comfortable as they didn’t see him behind them so they just got on with crossing the bridge and having a good time. Then once they are more than half way across he starts to Bear Down on them and Libby especially knows something is off and decides to record him. But there is no reason to be suspicious unless there was an exchange before they got onto the bridge.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I appreciate your focus on the real strategy of a defense for RA. His arrival and departure to the trails and not wild conspiracy theories. It seems like it would be the best defense.

So my question is why didn’t defense use this instead of the whole Odinist Soddi defense they continue to try to present?

Seems simple enough right? He stated in October 2022 that he arrived at 12 and left at 1:30pm on February 13th. So why not pursue this line of defense?
My opinion is there is not one shred of evidence that supports this narrative. Otherwise we would have 4 Franks motions that were filled with the names and testimony of individuals placing him on the trails between 12-130 and then placing him somewhere else from 130-5pm.
But we don’t. They haven’t pursued this easy-peasy defense strategy for a reason. IMO it won’t float.

All my opinion.
Edit:wrong date.

The claim of 1.30pm departure time may well be incriminating because it doesn't map to his first version when he met with DD. We really have to see how it comes across in the interview IMO. I've often wondered if it went badly, because of course investigators knew things that we've since seen in the PCA that RA would not have known. Perhaps they tripped him up.

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

The claim of 1.30pm departure time may well be incriminating because it doesn't map to his first version when he met with DD. We really have to see how it comes across in the interview IMO. I've often wondered if it went badly, because of course investigators knew things that we've since seen in the PCA that RA would not have known. Perhaps they tripped him up.

MOO

If he saw young girls on the trail that day, and two girls had vanished on the same trail on that same day he was there, he "should have been" very alarmed. He said he didn't get a good look at the girls he saw on the trails, and he said he didn't know the victims, so that means two of the girls he spotted might have been involved and/or themselves victims. He should have been tripping over himself out to talk to someone in LE and this concern should have been rolling off his tongue in that interview, but there's nothing about that specifically in DD's notes, and there's nothing about it coming from the D. And I've got a feeling that if he had had this attitude, it's something the D might want to emphasize. So I'm wondering, too, if that interview went badly, and not just for this reason. I'd love, love to know the date of that interview!

 

[mrjitty]

I am wondering if the defence's real trial strategy will be some kind of 'bungled/insufficient investigation' idea? Rozzi knows as well as anyone that he doesn't have a single piece of evidence to directly connect Holder to the murders, and Holder has an alibi. That is more than can be said for the accused!

In the 2nd motion to dismiss, Rozzi appears to acknowledge this. The problem is not that he has evidence against Holder but rather he has been prevented from getting that evidence.

96.All of the issues of missing evidence surround one person, Brad Holder
and Odinism, which the prosecution is also attempting to block the
defense from even mentioning at trial.

97.Richard Allen cannot have a fair trial when exculpatory evidence that
would support the involvement of third-party suspects is missing.

98.Only so many coincidences can explain away why so much evidence
concerning Brad Holder and Odinism is still missing and why the
prosecution failed to turn over much of the evidence that the defense does
in fact possess concerning third-party suspects for nine months or more
and only after the prosecution knew that the defense would soon be
learning of the existence of that third-party suspect evidence.

2024 5/20 2nd Motion to Dismiss.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Maybe he just wasn't tipped, except by himself of course, until 2023?

Agreed, but it was 2022. IMO RA called immediately after the girls were found and told them he was there because he knew he'd been seen by one group of girls and someone while on MHB (as he told DD in the interview about the girls). DD met him at the grocery store that just so happens to be close to CVS, away from LE Dept. DD's scribbled notes (no audio I bet) were turned in and who knows what happened to them from there?

RA spend 5 years gaining a large amount of weight, growing out his goatee (foot long) and almost a bald close cropped haircut in an effort to disguise himself from the original BG video and pic. He hid in plain sight just as LE thought he would. He didn't charge Liberty German's family for photos for the funeral. What a swell, helpful guy ole' Rick is. I wonder if he kept duplicates for himself?

I think his main target was Libby. Libby certainly favors someone very close in RA's life IMO, maybe that was the trigger? Who knows what drives these twisted murderers?

However and whatever got LE to focus on him in Oct. 2022 for the interviews and the S/W locked him up. He made things even more solid for the P by his confessions.

RA=BG=Killer

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[Justice101]

I still believe RA said something creepy as the girls went out on to the bridge. There had to be a exchange of some kind.

There is a reason that as he closed down on them that Libby started to record him and the girls were spooked.

I believe the girls got comfortable as they didn’t see him behind them so they just got on with crossing the bridge and having a good time. Then once they are more than half way across he starts to Bear Down on them and Libby especially knows something is off and decides to record him. But there is no reason to be suspicious unless there was an exchange before they got onto the bridge.

MOO

I agree he must have said something OR looked at them weirdly. They may have said "good afternoon" and he may have grunted back... then they laughed as they walked down the trail and the laughing set him off. I don't know. Half of me things it was planned and half of me thinks the opportunity came up and he got mad and acted.

Something put the girls at attention.

They also would have been able to see him maybe nervously looking over his shoulder back down the path to look for anyone coming.

But I am convinced Libby started recording either to later have video of "this weird guy who gives me the creeps" or because she thought they might be in danger...

 

[sunshineray]

I was watching that vid again today. Kept it from one of your previous post, it is really interesting. Two other things found at your kink, AW (Abby's mom) also talks about her understanding of the reason behind two sketches, then she talks about how they do not believe the girls knew the person (BG).

It is a very interesting video, especially for me concerning just how many people were out and about on or near the Delphi trails that day. Each and every one most likely having phones and some taking pictures with time stamps.

Also many ears not hearing screams/shrill voices of young girls, orders being uttered/barked (voices, in my experiences tend to carry by water) or seeing activity of a group of men milling about (that we know of right now). And when I think of this stuff, I always think back to RL and why he asked for a false alibi.
All just my thoughts and opinions.

 

[Megnut]

If there was not a video in this case, then I think it would be easier to come to the conclusion that bridge guy is Richard Allen. In this case, the pictures and the video seem to tell a story of time across a bridge.

2:05 picture or posted: Full view of the bridge with no one in the background.
2:07 picture or posted: Abby and Libby are quite far across in less than 2 minutes. Maybe they were challenging each other to see who could get across faster? Libby takes a picture of Abby walking on the bridge.

After this picture, for some reason it seems to take the girls much longer to get across the rest of the bridge whereas they were moving a lot quicker when they first got onto the bridge or at least that is what the pictures and video suggest.

2:13 picture and video: It is hypothesized Abby is barely seen in the video. She is walking in front of the main image that Liberty German takes of bridge guy coming across the bridge.

I can only hypothesize after this point that police used the eventual voice command timestamp maybe 15-20 seconds later to come to the conclusion that the bridge guy walking towards them is also the same person who gave them the command to go down the hill.

The pictures, however limited they might be, helped me understand the girl's movement across the bridge.

Others have mapped this out on convincing ways and I'm mostly on board -- BB sees BG, turns back, meets Abby and Libby, putting them on course to cross paths with BG on the trail right at about the entrance to the bridge. Makes sense. He gives them time enough to reach nearly the other end for crossing and gaining on them.

I haven't however given up entirely on another approach. That he crossed the bridge ahead of them, waited for them, entered the bridge from the back end, passed them on the bridge, then turned back again. It would account for his absence in the photo showing Abby and an empty span of bridge behind her, and it would account for the girls' pace. Ambling, making their way across the bridge, in no particular hurry. Slowing up as he came toward them. Not as much fearful (yet) but just surveying how it'll work as he passes them. You know, a minute of thought, tempted maybe to turn around but didn't want to show fear, offend, so they just slowed way up. If they passed each other on the bridge but he turned back again, that could be what prompted to put her camera from photo to video....

Either way, it seems that there is evidence they encountered him at least twice in a short swath of time... and it unnerved them in some fashion.

A public park, adhering to the buddy system, other people in and around the park, it should have been safe...

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Agreed, but it was 2022. IMO RA called immediately after the girls were found and told them he was there because he knew he'd been seen by one group of girls and someone while on MHB (as he told DD in the interview about the girls). DD met him at the grocery store that just so happens to be close to CVS, away from LE Dept. DD's scribbled notes (no audio I bet) were turned in and who knows what happened to them from there?

RA spend 5 years gaining a large amount of weight, growing out his goatee (foot long) and almost a bald close cropped haircut in an effort to disguise himself from the original BG video and pic. He hid in plain sight just as LE thought he would. He didn't charge Liberty German's family for photos for the funeral. What a swell, helpful guy ole' Rick is. I wonder if he kept duplicates for himself?

I think his main target was Libby. Libby certainly favors someone very close in RA's life IMO, maybe that was the trigger? Who knows what drives these twisted murderers?

However and whatever got LE to focus on him in Oct. 2022 for the interviews and the S/W locked him up. He made things even more solid for the P by his confessions.

RA=BG=Killer

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

You just made me think of one thing that could be getting the D so adamant about wanting their innocent client's search warrant thrown out, just because. Maybe he did keep a picture? Just a thought

 

[steeltowngirl]

If there was not a video in this case, then I think it would be easier to come to the conclusion that bridge guy is Richard Allen. In this case, the pictures and the video seem to tell a story of time across a bridge.

2:05 picture or posted: Full view of the bridge with no one in the background.
2:07 picture or posted: Abby and Libby are quite far across in less than 2 minutes. Maybe they were challenging each other to see who could get across faster? Libby takes a picture of Abby walking on the bridge.

After this picture, for some reason it seems to take the girls much longer to get across the rest of the bridge whereas they were moving a lot quicker when they first got onto the bridge or at least that is what the pictures and video suggest.

2:13 picture and video: It is hypothesized Abby is barely seen in the video. She is walking in front of the main image that Liberty German takes of bridge guy coming across the bridge.

I can only hypothesize after this point that police used the eventual voice command timestamp maybe 15-20 seconds later to come to the conclusion that the bridge guy walking towards them is also the same person who gave them the command to go down the hill.

The pictures, however limited they might be, helped me understand the girl's movement across the bridge.

There are some great videos out there of brave folks walking across the bridge. The rails become more deteriorated towards the middle of the bridge, and the height over water looks scarier. I can see why someone would slow down as they crossed.

 

[sunshineray]

I agree he must have said something OR looked at them weirdly. They may have said "good afternoon" and he may have grunted back... then they laughed as they walked down the trail and the laughing set him off. I don't know. Half of me things it was planned and half of me thinks the opportunity came up and he got mad and acted.

Something put the girls at attention.

They also would have been able to see him maybe nervously looking over his shoulder back down the path to look for anyone coming.

But I am convinced Libby started recording either to later have video of "this weird guy who gives me the creeps" or because she thought they might be in danger...

It breaks the heart. I think it was in that video I recently posted of Anna's interview where she mentions listening to the audio and Abby saying something like, well lets just keep going, go away from where they were and Libby saying we can't the trail ends there. So Abby's instincts were strong to put distance between them and the approaching BG but the overriding goodness of these young girls, of not trespassing on where they shouldn't go, stopped them. And then it was too late </3

 

[StarryStarryNight]

You just made me think of one thing that could be getting the D so adamant about wanting their innocent client's search warrant thrown out, just because. Maybe he did keep a picture? Just a thought

Early on, the search warrant was just a search warrant, served on, according to the defense, an innocent man. So why would anything found pursuant to that search warrant need to be suppressed?
The defense is intent on having it thrown out though. If something very bad on RA hadn’t been found, there wouldn’t be such an effort. It would be much more effective, in my opinion, to say at trial “LE searched his home and found nothing”. But that’s not what the defense is doing, I think, because they can’t.
My first thought after RA was arrested was photos had been found, so I agree with you.

 

[sunshineray]

Early on, the search warrant was just a search warrant, served on, according to the defense, an innocent man. So why would anything found pursuant to that search warrant need to be suppressed?
The defense is intent on having it thrown out though. If something very bad on RA hadn’t been found, there wouldn’t be such an effort. It would be much more effective, in my opinion, to say at trial “LE searched his home and found nothing”. But that’s not what the defense is doing, I think, because they can’t.
My first thought after RA was arrested was photos had been found, so I agree with you.

And I've always wondered if pictures were also taken at the crime scene of the girls BUT if that was what they found in the search, that would surely clinch a DP charge, that would be a real no-brainer for DP.

 

[Willow Knight]

It breaks the heart. I think it was in that video I recently posted of Anna's interview where she mentions listening to the audio and Abby saying something like, well lets just keep going, go away from where they were and Libby saying we can't the trail ends there. So Abby's instincts were strong to put distance between them and the approaching BG but the overriding goodness of these young girls, of not trespassing on where they shouldn't go, stopped them. And then it was too late </3

In that video Anna also says there is just a second between "guys...down the hill". Then she goes on to talk about hearing the water splashing. IMO the witnesses and the video lock Richard Allen in as BG. His arrival time, on the platform watching fish, the path he took toward Libby and Abby. To me it's all strong and convincing evidence. Eye witnesses plus Richard Allen corroborating his arrival time and location.

If there are other actors I hope they are held accountable.

All this talk about Richard Allen looking so horrid after reading the discovery, well, yeah. He had years to build his confidence that he got away with murder only to have it shattered. Reality hit hard, who wouldn't lose their appetite. IMO Richard Allen didn't feel like eating, shaving, or hygiene care. He had bigger problems on his mind, after reading that discovery he probably couldn't get those words out of his mind. Over and over he thought about the evidence. He thought about what two of the people he loved the most hearing of his evil deeds, Richard wanted those close to him to hear it from him, not the media. Thus the phone confessions.

I believe the defense knows Richard Allen is guilty, and for that reason I do not think this will go to trial. The only defense IMO he has is getting the evidence thrown out.

Love and support to family and loved ones of the victims. I believe BP is barely holding it together with this circus. Being under a gag order is torture IMO, torture from this vile defense.

All My Opinion

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The claim of 1.30pm departure time may well be incriminating because it doesn't map to his first version when he met with DD. We really have to see how it comes across in the interview IMO. I've often wondered if it went badly, because of course investigators knew things that we've since seen in the PCA that RA would not have known. Perhaps they tripped him up.

MOO

Yes it’s classic adaption IMO
Of course defense wants us to think DD misremembered or misunderstood the initial interview in early days.
Fortunately there are multiple witnesses that lock him into that 130-4pm time period.
I do think the interview in 2022 went badly and I do think he was tripped. From the small excerpts that have been presented in motions. I see defensive language, threats and distractions and doubling down by RA. None of which aligns with his “cooperative, concerned citizen” image that is being sold by defense.
All my opinion

 

[chaz]

Why did he talk to a CO on a parkinglot outside the store? The sheriff's office is only 0,2 mile from CVS, a 4 minute walk.

Carroll County Sheriff to 505 W Main St

www.google.nl

 

[Tealgrove]

Early on, the search warrant was just a search warrant, served on, according to the defense, an innocent man. So why would anything found pursuant to that search warrant need to be suppressed?
The defense is intent on having it thrown out though. If something very bad on RA hadn’t been found, there wouldn’t be such an effort. It would be much more effective, in my opinion, to say at trial “LE searched his home and found nothing”. But that’s not what the defense is doing, I think, because they can’t.
My first thought after RA was arrested was photos had been found, so I agree with you.

IMO something very damning was found as a result of the Search Warrant. Some clothes were missing IIRC. Pictures, blood transfer in the vehicle, a knife with DNA of the girls on it and that “keepsake box”. I shudder to think what may have been found.

If there was nothing that linked him to the crime scene, (their words not mine), there certainly could be something that linked him to the girls or the girls to him. Clever wordsmithing seems to be a talent of the Defence.

There’s something there. If not, what’s the worry?

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

Why did he talk to a CO on a parkinglot outside the store? The sheriff's office is only 0,2 mile from CVS, a 4 minute walk.

Carroll County Sheriff to 505 W Main St

www.google.nl

Exactly!! Right!!! Just pop on in and tell them you were there. But no! He meets a CO in the parking lot of a grocery store. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Willow Knight]

IMO something very damning was found as a result of the Search Warrant. Some clothes were missing IIRC. Pictures, blood transfer in the vehicle, a knife with DNA of the girls on it and that “keepsake box”. I shudder to think what may have been found.

If there was nothing that linked him to the crime scene, (their words not mine), there certainly could be something that linked him to the girls or the girls to him. Clever wordsmithing seems to be a talent of the Defence.

There’s something there. If not, what’s the worry?

MOO

In fact, if there was nothing incriminating found during the search that should be in the defense's favor. IMO

INAL, however I would argue that a search warrant was illegally obtained and look here, nothing was found! The defense team and/or people supporting the defense team is accusing LE of illegal actions, torture of innocent RA, conspiracy, etc. Defense claims nothing was found that connect RA to the crime scene, OK then this should be their proof. Why would the defense want their proof thrown out?